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Why won’t god heal amputees?

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posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 



This passage, then, is a plain statement of the temporary character of some gifts.


If the gifts were temporal, I find it odd that Paul would tell the Church in Cornith (at the VERY BEGINNING of the next chapter) to:

1 Cor 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.

and at the end of chapter 14:

1 Cor. 14:37-39 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.




posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:32 PM
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reply to post by cg001
 



You can sin to your hearts content and right before you die you can ask for forgiveness and it will be granted? Is it really that easy to get into heaven?


Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?


Either way I need to reread the bible again,


Please(?) read the book of Romans to answer your question you posed.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 
I'm not in their movement, I was simply pointing out the teaching about early and latter rains, the pouring out of the Holy Spirit. Sure, there might be some now, but we are NOT in the part where it will be in great abundance on Earth. (Latter rains)

It's a logical fallacy to use the exception to define the rule. Also, when Paul said this it was still the first century right? That would be during the early rains part of the church age.

Thirdly, there will be a great revival, there will be millions of people saved and martyred for Christ during the tribulation, there will be 144,000 anointed Jews witnessing, there will be the 2 prophets that the entire world will see/hear, and there will be an angel of the Lord who will be appointed to proclaim the gospel to every person on Earth.

John sees a "multitude" who came out of the Great Tribulation. There will be millions of people who will reject the mark and refuse to worship the beast.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 
But also they were thinking that those anointed with the spirit to speak in a different tongue (i.e. a different known language), were doing so because on an unclean spirit. None of the apostles "spoke in tongues" like today's charismatics do, they simple spoke in another language so that they could spread the gospel to other parts of the world.

Let's read what Paul taught.

I Corinthians 14:18-19, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all: Yet IN THE CHURCH I had rather speak five words with my UNDERSTANDING, that by my voice I might teach OTHERS also, than ten thousand MEANINGLESS words in an unknown tongue".

As Paul says in verse 22, "TONGUES are for a sign, not to them that BELIEVE, but to them that believe NOT (or have no faith): however PROPHESYING serves not for them that believe NOT, but for them which BELIEVE".



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:15 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


this is a very good point, i agree whole heartedly that tongues is not for today.

i have friends that go to church and claim they speak in tongues, every ime i point out scripture as you 2 have they get really quiet.

so its agreed at least that speaking in tongues doesnt happen past the day of pentecost?



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


this is a very good point, i agree whole heartedly that tongues is not for today.

i have friends that go to church and claim they speak in tongues, every ime i point out scripture as you 2 have they get really quiet.

so its agreed at least that speaking in tongues doesnt happen past the day of pentecost?


of course not, it was used to allow apostles who spoke Greek and Hebrew to spread the gospels abroad to lands which spoke other languages.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



But also they were thinking that those anointed with the spirit to speak in a different tongue (i.e. a different known language),


1 Cor. 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Let's read what Paul taught.

I Corinthians 14:18-19, "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all: Yet IN THE CHURCH I had rather speak five words with my UNDERSTANDING, that by my voice I might teach OTHERS also, than ten thousand MEANINGLESS words in an unknown tongue".


I've been there...on THAT side....for YEARS! (And I lost that debate). I am fully fluent on BOTH sides of the debate. I USED to argue against the "gifts of the Spirit". I spent YEARS defending the "no more tongues" side and finally was struck with a DOUBT that I was right based upon Scripture presented to me. Since I could NO LONGER doubt the Scripture presented (to me), I was left (more or less) "neutral". I was left with NOTHING I could "rail against" any longer.

I began to "allow for it".
That PERHAPS...I was wrong...all along.

I don't know what translation you are quoting from, but the word "meaningless" is not in the KJV:

1 Cor. 14:18-19 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

One cannot leave out a preceding verse:
1 Cor 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

NOTurTypical, I've argued against this for many years and I LOST that argument.

I (and Scripture) not only allow for the "Gifts of the Spirit" but:

1 Cro 14:39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

And may I add:
1 Cor. 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.

Yet:
1 Cor. 14:38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Emphasis mine:

Thirdly, there will be a great revival, there will be millions of people saved and martyred for Christ during the tribulation,


I cannot find in Scripture the word "millions" saved.

Jesus said:
Matt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 08:50 PM
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reply to post by pureevil81
 



so its agreed at least that speaking in tongues doesnt happen past the day of pentecost?


No...

1 Cor. 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:

I suppose this was penned well after Pentecost?



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's a logical fallacy to use the exception to define the rule.


Please explain how I did just that? (You may be right, but I want the chance to defend my words).



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 09:09 PM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 


youre right, i agree.

im kinda lost in the scriptures as you explained in your post, so thanks for helping me to understand better. i appreciate the effort involved.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:06 PM
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Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



But also they were thinking that those anointed with the spirit to speak in a different tongue (i.e. a different known language),


1 Cor. 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.


Again brother, Paul said this is the first century, I.E. "early rains" time. There were "early rains" allowing these gifts, speaking in the tongue, prophecy, healing the infirmed, raising the dead, et cetra.

That was the early rains........

We are awaiting the "latter rains". When that kind of spirit outpouring will happen again. People who do it now are charlatans and deceivers. We are NOT in the "latter rains" point in time just prior to Jesus's coming. The people doing it now are ravening wolves in sheeps clothing.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:18 PM
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Originally posted by pureevil81
reply to post by PreTribGuy
 


youre right, i agree.

im kinda lost in the scriptures as you explained in your post, so thanks for helping me to understand better. i appreciate the effort involved.


Pureevil81,
I was "one of the BEST" in our city at arguing AGAINST the gifts of the Spirit. I really was!

SINCE THEN...

SINCE I ALLOWED FOR THEM...(because the BIBLE DOES!)

and now...

SINCE I EMBRACE THEM...

...I no longer (CAN or) will have FULL "fellowship" with those who say they have ceased, for they already have THEIR (imagined) names for those gifts.

THEY would (and do) think that tongues are something LESS THAN COMING FROM GOD...and we ALL know what THAT means...

I mean...really...c'mon...

THEY are REALLY saying:

"...if it ain't from God...it's from?"



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 


Emphasis mine:

Thirdly, there will be a great revival, there will be millions of people saved and martyred for Christ during the tribulation,


I cannot find in Scripture the word "millions" saved.

Jesus said:
Matt 7:13-14 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

"Few" what percentage would you consider to be "few" 3%? 1%? .5%?

What percentage would you consider to be "few"?

Now, once you have determined what a "few" is to be percentage-wise, let's look at the population of the world. For arguments sake lets give it a conservative number of 6 billion people. Let's say only 1% will be saved, or the "few" group to you.

That's 60 MILLION people. "Few" generally means 3 or so, so lets look at 3% that's 180 MILLION people.

If 1/12th of 1% of humans alive at the time of the end are saved that is 5 million people right there.

Lets see what scripture has to say:

Revelation 7:9

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"


^^^ These are those who we learn in verse 14 are those who came to the Lord during the Great Tribulation, they are souls if you remember, they do not yet have eternal bodies that the church receives at the rapture. They are those who were martyred for Christ during the tribulation.

I have no problem based on mathematics and sound logic to place their number in the millions.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:30 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



The people doing it now are ravening wolves in sheeps clothing.


IF (big IF!), you are saying that the Gifts of the Spirit, used now, in the Church, are just "wolves in sheeps clothing", I disagree.

If you make that statement, you will "lump me" in with the "wolves".



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:38 PM
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Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



It's a logical fallacy to use the exception to define the rule.


Please explain how I did just that? (You may be right, but I want the chance to defend my words).


Becasue, there may be a few that gifted today to actually be speaking in tongues today, but no one heals people today, no one raises the dead today, etc..

This is what I said prior to that post you quoted:

"Sure, there might be some now, but we are NOT in the part where it will be in great abundance on Earth."

By stating that there are some who do doesn't mean that it is the norm. Scripture tells us that in the last days there will be a GREAT outpouring of the Holy Spirit, sons will prophecy, there will be healings, (real ones, not the fake Benny Hinn kind), etc.. we are not at that point yet, there are tribulation events that need to transpire first.

That point in time will be the "latter rains" and it will mirror the "early rains" period after Pentecost during the first century, before the NT was written as a witness to the unbeliever.

You must realize that the point of the early rains was to witness to an unbelieving world before God's Word was to be the testament of Truth about Jesus Christ. This is why the role of the Holy Spirit is different now according to God's will, it leads people to the scripture now. However, at the end, it will be needed on a grand scale to reach every man woman and child in a very short period of time. 3 1/2 years to be exact.



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by PreTribGuy
reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



The people doing it now are ravening wolves in sheeps clothing.


IF (big IF!), you are saying that the Gifts of the Spirit, used now, in the Church, are just "wolves in sheeps clothing", I disagree.

If you make that statement, you will "lump me" in with the "wolves".


You've healed people? Raised the dead? God revealed prophetic visions to you?



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:48 PM
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reply to post by NOTurTypical
 



Revelation 7:9

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;"


NoturTypical, I'm not going to play the "I just don't understand" game that we both have seen on BTS!

OK?

I DO AGREE that Rev 7:9 has a multitude, which no man could number.
I DON'T agree that this means (necessarily) "millions".

The largest number we have of "Saints" (combined...Old and New Testament), is in Jude 14:
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

We, men, cannot even accurately "count" the number of folks at any given venue...Barack Obama's appearance in Denver...etc...

It is ALWAYS a "guess".
AS IN:
"No man could number"?

Still, the prophecy in Jude makes the number LESS than a "million":

"...TEN THOUSANDS".



posted on Aug, 31 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by PreTribGuy
 



I began to "allow for it".
That PERHAPS...I was wrong...all along.


Or perhaps someone deceived you into thinking there were no such thing as the "early rains" and "latter rains" and that it has been pouring rain since Pentecost? Is that a possibility? Is it possible those whom convinced you it happens today weren't taking into consideration Paul lived and wrote his books in the first century/early rains time period?

Do you think the person who convinced you wasn't aware the Holy Spirit was poured out to show signs to the unbelievers before the NT was written? That after there was a book that contained the Word of Truth, that there would be the need of signs?

Think about that.



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