Is it time that we stop debating the UFO subject and admit SOMETHING is going on?

reply to post by nomadrush


There may be more than one answer to the phenomena. Inter dimensional and extraterrestrial could be just two of the many theories out there to explain what is happening:
1. Many scientists are looking at the multidimensional universes theory.
2. Faster than light is now a serious idea.
3. Psychic phenomena (sixth sense) may be the next area to get a serious looking at.
If the government does start a new Project Blue Book type of agency, they need to be serious about it. The old one had a captain and a couple of NCOs assigned to it. The new one should have a senior colonel and a few top scientists assigned to look and test the evidence that is out there.

I think in the past few years alot of damage was done to this cause with crazys and hoaxes maybe not as bad as the recent freezer debarcle over bigfoot but damage all the same

As stated by the op the majority of people happily admit "somthing" is going on but none of the professionals that could help are willing to put their carreer on the the line for it to be truly investigated

there is also the problem of mass seperation and lack of co operation between the ufo community ( i call it the quick buck mentality) in the end only damages the ability to get anyone to take the subject seriously

my personal opnion is that 90% of its military hardware but that still leaves 10% thats not.

going back to the mention of underground bases how many facilities in england that where "above top secret" have been abandoned and are now in the public domain as relics of the nucular build up we all know there are underground facilities but no one can agree on where or what they are to be used for

using the UN will not help your cause for the truth behind these anomolys as the very people your asking for help are the very people that spend so much time hiding what they are doing from each other let alone jo public

Just a few changes in the establishments outward apporach of this subject is hinting at something comming to a head the vaticans statment, recent old disclosures of military papers (majority being usless) and small explosion in sightings across the world all points to something bigger comming

well thats just my view and be that right or wrong its how i see thigns as it stands at the moment



[edit on 23-8-2008 by Amitsumikaboshi]

[edit on 23-8-2008 by Amitsumikaboshi]

reply to post by MrPenny

My point is....far less importance is given to the concept of these events being a result of phenomena that is and always has been sharing our "space", so to speak, and every now and then, intentionally or not, manifesting within our sphere of perception. Normal events in our own "universe" may as well leak into theirs, causing just as much consternation, argument, and discussion.

I agree - not that it's going to help anyone admit anything right now

but I'm glad to hear you say it because it's something that's been nagging at me for a while now

if we're going to make the assumption that something is going on, and then some of us go on to make the assumption that whatever is going on is not coming from us - there's been at least enough information to suggest that if they are here, they are either from here - or here in some way yet unexplained

but here as much as we are

ex patriots maybe - but here - now


[edit on 8/23/2008 by Spiramirabilis]

Originally posted by nomadrush
reply to post by rickyrrr

 

The reason I jumped to "inter-dimensionality" is not for the sake of something t say, it was because my own research points t this explanation, as I presented at Laughlin earlier this year.

Ross

I like your question because it's not about disclosure - not about waiting to be told

that's going to happen - one way or another

maybe more of a grass-roots, hand-count approach for now - time to see where everyone really stands on this - time to think about this for real

if only to get people to entertain the idea - that may be enough for now - the rest will come naturally. it's easy to forget that, though the subject is common here, and taken for granted as being real for many of us - this is still a strange if not impossible concept for most people

obviously there are a great many people who've taken this seriously for quite some time - it needs to start expanding - spreading

I think it's important for us to consider the many possibilities and come to some conclusions for our selves - and not have to rely on what's "explained" to us later on

I like the inter-dimensional theories - not because I can even begin to understand them - but because those ideas , even as ideas, cover more territory and hint at least at some kind of explanation for what little we believe we actually know right now

i think many agree that it's a very exciting time to be alive... even though there's a lot of negativity occurring around the world, the veil is slowly lifting!

I concur with you sentiment that investigation need to progress but this can only happen on an individual basis

Unidentified Flying Objects are common and most are subjective sightings due to relativism

to make the leap from UFOs to spaceships is a difficult one, and then one must filter out which ones are ours and those that aren't, which again one must accept that our GOV has secret tech that could be beyond publicized tech

A bigger leap must be taken to believe they are alien ships for one has to believe in aliens

I think this is why many people work so hard to discredit the UFO phenomenon, because of what it stands for. Aliens visiting here. That is just too much for some people, and they will never believe until they have objective proof, which by then, it will no longer be a phenomenon but a reality

I was very interested in UFOs during the 70s and read the books yet was most interested in "Chariots of the Gods" and I wanted to believe but I needed a bit more because there was nothing official on it

It was Steven Greer's book "The Disclosure project" that sold me on the idea that these were no longer unknown phenomenon and I went from "are they real" to "who are they" and "what is their agenda".

This jump pushed me into places I never thought I would go. Abductions became a possible phenomenon, Alien channelers eventually got my attention, Contactee's have become an inspiration.

Accepting the alien reality made the world make more sense, and I am not one to be persuaded lightly. I still try to divorce myself from becoming emotionally invested in the whole thing, because it could also be a psy-op, some of it anyway.

All in all it is a difficult journey to go from "earth lights" to "alien agendas" but once you make the journey it is difficult to understand why you never started the journey sooner.

But to ask the whole community to make that leap, just because you have and know it to be true, or wish it to move beyond that is like asking someone who is devout in their religion, to abandon it and join another, based on pictures and testimony. They will have to make that journey when they are able. If ever.

There are lots of groups and communities who have done just what you want to do, but they are all like minded without having to reaffirm the phenomenon. If you are looking for the next level in the UFO arena, go with the contactee's. They all basically say the same thing, much like the religions of the world do. You can see that there is more than fly by's happening and some of the positive agenda can be found there.

S & F

peace

Originally posted by starcraft

I always thought it would be great...if something like this happened during a live, nationally televised event such as a sporting contest. During The Super Bowl...The World Cup...or on any given weekend, a network is televising a golf tournament. Imagine The Masters having a play suspension because a thousand foot wide craft was hovering over the 18th fairway. I have a feeling all the other media outlets would want to cover an event like that as well. It would spread worldwide in a very short time, within minutes.

We can only hope.

This makes me wonder: if a UFO did appear and hover ominously over a major sporting event, COULD other channels cover it? Or would whoever bought the rights to air the sporting event have exclusive coverage until the event ended? Or does this thing looming overhead cancel the event, and essentially end the contract?

If a network could wave a contract to keep the media from airing coverage immediately, it's possible they could cover it up. Unlikely, depending on the event and how many folks are there, but still possible I think.

That said, of this post: true. I myself always found it incredible to continue discrediting UFO witnesses when a majority of them are devout in their faith, literal minded, and not like us.

reply to post by nomadrush


Wow, this has got to be the most intelligent thread on the subject i've ever read on this page

usually the skeptics just start insulting everyone with in the first 2 pages

but i'm glad to see that this is just a bunch of intelligent people having a good conversation about ufo's an aliens.

right f'n on

i just hope the disinfo people don't even touch this one ( they get there creepy hands on any thread that has to do with this subject)


so keep up the great conversation, i'll be keeping up over the next week

and i plan on getting info to throw in the mix as well


so don't get discouraged by the naysayers, i'm starting to think that they are paid to hate on the subject ( givin there passion to do so, and damn are they passionate about not liking the idea of ufo's or aliens)


so please continue this great discussion

I've finally found a thread that enthralls me



(Pardon my spelling, I'm not an english major just a product of Jefferson Parrish public schooling)

reply to post by kidflash2008

. The scientific community will not take it serious because of the fringe element.

I think the main problem that the scientific community has with UFO phenomena is that there's very little hard evidence that something is going on. The phenomena isn't testable, isn't verifiable, isn't reproducible, and very often highly subjective. This leaves them with circumstantial evidence at best, which often flooded with so many hoaxes and manipulations that it would take more time just sorting through the rubbish for the nugget of silver than it would to actually investigate what little evidence there is. And then there are anomalies which are often attributed to UFOs - but unless a verifiable link is established between them, Science can't say anything about them other than they are anomalies - many of which can be explained away.

Granted, I don't have any statistics to back me up - but I think you'll find a great deal of reputable scientists who believe that Alien life (maybe even sentient life) exists elsewhere in the universe. Many of them believe we have been visited before. However, this belief is a personal one and I don't blame them for keeping it largely to themselves rather than wasting their time and public/private grant money chasing down something which we have really no way of even validating conclusively that it even exists.

Not to mention it could damage their reputation greatly. Partly because of the stigma that "UFO Science" has carried with it, and partly because it brings their objectivity and rationality into question because simply investigating UFO phenomena would suggest that the scientist accepts the UFO phenomena on some level and that leap of faith suggests the taint of bias in their research. They would have to investigate the anomalies, because until we can confirm that these lights in the sky ARE extraterrestrial in origin - we cannot investigate them as UFOs.

Of course, simply investigating the anomalies from a non-bias, objective, and naturalistic perspective would not be satisfactory to the UFO community.

Strangely I am reminded of problem, reaction, solution.

How long have we been demanding the GOV to do something about this UFO problem?

BBrrrr!...that kinda creeps me out.


[edit on 23/8/2008 by _Heretic]

reply to post by _Heretic


I'm sure the GOV thought it was a problem before most even knew what a UFO was

Look at the Battle of Los Angles

that was in 1943 and there is even old school film footage for that

and the idea of the UFO ( or at least the "flying Saucer") didn't even come to be till the early fifties

reply to post by goukilock


once again sorry for my horrific spelling

(it kills me if not anyone else)

Lasheic: I feel that your post is spot on. Well done, well said.

Alright, this is my first post in a second attempt to create an account. I had tried a few months back when the site was apparently going through an overhaul. My account was lost in the wash. I was able to post for one evening and no more.
I had decided not to rejoin because I am very afraid that I will violate terms and conditions to the point that I will be outlawed (haha). Especially in the political and religious forums, with people who I feel are absolutely hopeless, beyond reproach and may very will be disinfo agents. But I'll try my best to be civil.
To the topic at hand: There is a very real reason why there aren't any bashers in this particular thread. This site, along with many others are continually monitored by our government and there ARE PEOPLE who ARE PAID to make sure that these "fringe" topics are neutralized to the best ability possible, as I'm sure many are aware of.
This particular thread is left alone because they are guaging our overall mood on the subject. An OP like this is a perfect opportunity to see how people will react to the subject. If people can keep this civil and rational, it brings us one step closer. Great thread!...
If I can figure out how, I will star and flag it!
To the hyperdimensional effect, I just replied anonymously to the thread someone else mentioned above about it (not sure if it will show up) and I will recap here. .... Great hypothesis, great reading but not real. Why? Because of WW2. Bringing the idea to a logical conclusion implies that people will one day make it to the point that we can travel interdimensionally and we will also be responsible for the responsible development of lesser advanced societies. Things like WW2 wouldn't be allowed to happen because someone we don't even know exist would have a very vested interest in the safe maintenance of our planet. This isn't the case. But a good story anyhow. Copyright it and publish it, MrPenny.

Alright, my views on the specific question at hand: We have all the tools in front of us and I just realized it (hence my new account). How many people Believe? 1,000,000? 10,000,000? 100,000,000? How about we use this website to get the word out? How would you do that? Everyone throw in a buck to buy a commercial on MSM primetime television? 30 seconds of the best evidence, as reviewed by the ATS community with a link to the website? Imagine being able to put commercials linking to the best evidence all over the telly. People would come look.
What would that mean to this website? Even more strict guidelines on hoaxes (good all around). Identify disinfo agents and remove them. Remove hoaxers. Present on the best evidence possible and wake people up on a massive scale. Imagine Hannity and Colmes trying to rebut the commercial THEY JUST RAN ON THEIR NETWORK. Larry King? He's open anyhow. Afterall, this IS a capitalist society. Money wins. If enough people ponder the evidence, the government is forced to react.

Thanks for reading and I hope to enjoy this website immensely.

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


As much as i agree with you in principal about the whole idea of mass disclosure there is a flaw in this plan

the agencies and people that currently control this information have done so for years and have become for want of a better word instatutionalised

forcing these agencies into a corner and making them disclose said information may well cause a back lash that may well send our ability to reach the truth back a generation or more.
You see your talking about strickter controlls on hoaxer and disinfo they can impose restrictions on ALL information be it ture or false just buy pulling a few political strings (that is if the current theory of how deeps this goes is to be believed)

i dont think we should be pushing for everything and i think because we have done in the past is why he have met so much resistance
maybe allowing them to release some maybe just the tip of the iceburge and admit it the rest will follow in due course ..then agiain maybe not but hey its another option

Project Blue Book was a government distraction and ultimatly a scam.
The truth to the alien threat is there in the Dulce Papers,, google Dulce Book if you want the truth.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Because I find it INCREDIBLY hard to believe that our government was working on UFO tech at a time when they had just recently mastered prop plane tech.

In essence, they got it from somewhere and now both exist.

reply to post by Amitsumikaboshi


Well, if your scenario is correct, they are already releasing it. Or else, Larry King wouldn't be making it a monthly topic. At some point people have to meet them half way with the understanding that we REALIZE WHY they haven't told us. They are afraid of panic even more than they are afraid of having to restructure our economy.
One means a total loss of society vs. a restructuring. We have to meet them half way. And we can't hold them accountable for past offenses. There is a reason why this has happened this way and we must move on from here together. They will want amnesty and it must be given or we will never see the truth.

Against the sake of going against what people will come to find of me in the future, the bible fits here (as it does all across this topic, even as much as I disagree with it on other accounts) "... er... well, I was going to quote something about forgiveness. How about Shakespeare: To err is human but to forgive is divine.

Originally posted by Amitsumikaboshi
reply to post by Jay-in-AR

 

Sorry, forgot one point to address.

Insofar as they scricter rules go, that does not mean that we have to censor info, simply identify and isolate dishonesty. Deny ignorance AND dishonesty, I say!

In all honestly.
Think about it, Your a Advance race of beings, YOUR advanced, every Intelligent being understands that you can achieve more with more and not less. So destruction isnt on the menu.

So then it brings you to the " why havent they said anything " Well in all honesty what could be done that many wouldnt think it was our military.

So it finally comes to how, I think it will be Us, We will disclose to all thru a Mass gathering of Intel, that was given to us on purpose by " them "

Best way to introduce yourself, if to do it on a small scale with multiple people over an over untill you have either A, met everyone, or B, had enuff compelling Evidence to convince the skeptics, then they would most likely say, " About damn time you took a clue from the clue bag, only took you about 5,000 years.

We are Evolving, thats for sure, an not in a Physical sense, in every other sense, We are growing, as a whole non-stop and it wont stop until we are who we're meant to be. Fully Cognitive Inter dimensional beings Ourselves.

Humans are the Equivalent of Neo, waking up from the matrix, Into Zion.

these Et's are Morpheus and trinity. for Lack of better comparison.


[edit on 23-8-2008 by Tranceopticalinclined]

reply to post by Jay-in-AR


i said earlier in the post that there has been a change in how the establishment is moving forward with this subject and i do agree with you on the fact that we have to let the past go and let them come out with it ie meet them half way

although i dont think they are quite ready to give us even a fragment of the bigger picture yet as i stil feel they are "testing the waters"

and forcing mass disclosure will only be met with a wall of denial in my opnion

the larry king and the like is a acid test i feel but i might be wrong seems to be getting some massive ratings

dont get me wrong i wish they would hurry the hell up but patience is a virtue i guess

again i said before in this and other threads for me 90% of whats out there I and i do stress I feel is military or government hardware testing but that still leaves 10% i cant account be it alien interdimensional or whatever the fact that other think differnetly to me spices the 10% up

as to your last point
wasnt insinuating you where proposing censorship on mass i was mearly pointing out how they will manage information if pushed in comparison sorry if you took this the wrong way


[edit on 23-8-2008 by Amitsumikaboshi]