FAA Release of Radar Data Signals a new 'Openness Policy' on UFOs

Lol this is so funny, I love these debunking types. It is finally getting through to them that there are things in our planet Earths sky that are very very out of this world/out of this dimension. UFOs exist.

reply to post by franspeakfree


FAA radar data should be public domain, always, as it is the public that pays for it and is consistent with the publics’ safety. The only exceptions should be security issues for the presidential aircraft and active war aircraft. All else, we should have access to. All commercial and private class aircraft are required to have active transponders on board that clearly identify them on radar screen. Only ultra-light class aircraft do not fall under this mandate. Military aircraft and experimental aircraft fall under a different set of rules however, would be distinguishable on radar in most case as friendly, whereas UFOs would remain just that.

Something to consider

One step closer.

For all that know there are alien ships and aliens this is one step closer for you to celebrate the fact you knew what you were talking about and the skeptics hopefully will one day apologize to all they have insulted in there lifes when dealing with this subject.

Logic and commom sense SHOULD tell you NO government on Earth can make a ship a mile long with no noise and """hover""" capibility.

Thanks for the info Kimbo, I am not saying that we don't have the technology to obtain these speeds. What I am saying is that we don't have the technology to obtain those speeds then stop in mid air defying gravity.

We certainly don't have the technology where a craft can move in complete silence. We certainly don't have any technology that can zip off at acute angles at a drop of a hat.

Well we do have several stealth aircraft that can travel those speeds and by turning off their flight beacon, disappear from radar, which depending on what radar console is being observed, may show the object vanishing or the object momentarily at its last known position, which would make it appear to stop dead! And the stealths are very quiet. People who have worked with them are restricted from discussing them in the press, but it is often said that while in stealth mode, all you hear from the ground is the wind rushing over the craft.

A mile long, that a much different thing.

[edit on 8/15/2008 by eaganthorn]

Originally posted by observe50
One step closer.

For all that know there are alien ships and aliens this is one step closer for you to celebrate the fact you knew what you were talking about and the skeptics hopefully will one day apologize to all they have insulted in there lifes when dealing with this subject.

Logic and commom sense SHOULD tell you NO government on Earth can make a ship a mile long with no noise and """hover""" capibility.

Logic and common sense is based on KNOWLEGDE.

How do you know that knowledge does not exist.

You are not stating that logically or with common sense but as as ASSUMPTION - that is not always logical and or common sense!

i think the most logical conclusion based on this individual instance is that "something strange" happened and until the government or extraterrestrial visitors can be definitively linked to the event, it's best to remain silent on the origin.

this was addressed on larry king

seth shostak asked the guy with the radar data if it could have been 2 planes picked up at 2 diffirent times. His reply was "yes , thats possible" .

Originally posted by eaganthorn

Thanks for the info Kimbo, I am not saying that we don't have the technology to obtain these speeds. What I am saying is that we don't have the technology to obtain those speeds then stop in mid air defying gravity.

We certainly don't have the technology where a craft can move in complete silence. We certainly don't have any technology that can zip off at acute angles at a drop of a hat.

Well we do have several stealth aircraft that can travel those speeds and by turning off their flight beacon, disappear from radar, which depending on what radar console is being observed, may show the object vanishing or the object momentarily at its last known position, which would make it appear to stop dead! And the stealths are very quiet. People who have worked with them are restricted from discussing them in the press, but it is often said that while in stealth mode, all you hear from the ground is the wind rushing over the craft.

A mile long, that a much different thing.

[edit on 8/15/2008 by eaganthorn]

What about the witnesses are we to brush them aside and say that they are liars? or are they the key that holds this together?

Originally posted by yeti101
this was addressed on larry king

seth shostak asked the guy with the radar data if it could have been 2 planes picked up at 2 diffirent times. His reply was "yes , thats possible" .

Indeed you have a point but and heres the big but what about the witnesses that bravely came forward, everyone is forgetting them.

I seem to remember hearing that the witnesses said it (the huge craft of January 8) was flying LOW, though Ricky Sorrells saw it 3 or 4 times hovering (stationary) over his property. In addition to the anomalous lack of a sonic boom, wouldn't something that huge flying low create a big gust of WIND when zipping by at 2100 mph? Or it certainly would in the physics of aerodynamics as we know it. Fascinating, to wildly understate it.

Pity the desperate ones who have an entirely emotional stake in believing the craft just CAN'T be of nonhuman origin (whether or not the occupants or operators were human/military) without a shred of evidence to substantiate their bellowings.

reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic

Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic
Where are the scientific papers to prove the zero point gravity that you mention. Where are the scientific papers that zero point gravity that you mention has been developed? Where?

Look I have read many of your posts and all you do is ridicule and demand evidence. You don't come up with explanations to try and get to the truth, as you clearly demonstrated in your reply to my post and in almost every other thread I checked.

Now you normally mostly ignore my posts but this time you thought you could play the evidence game on me.

Ever heard of Andrei Sakharov?
Andrei Sakharov

He was a brilliant scientist that supported zero point gravity to name one. Zero Point gravity is just going from a theoretical framework into an experimental test at Boeing for example Einstein, that's why the US military should not have had this technology fully operational for the last decades.

And pseudoscience links from money scamming snake oil websites don't count as credible just to give you a heads up.

So now you are also demanding what kind of evidence should be sufficient for your taste. BBC news credible enough for you?

Boeing tries to defy gravity

Wow I mean you must be somekind of a genius that you know right off the bat by reading a few news articles in the Internet about the Stephenville sighting that you just jumped out from the bathtub and proclaimed:

"Eureka! This is zero point gravity!"

Thanks for the compliment but I'm not the one you should be crediting, but you would have had already known this if you did some research yourself instead of crying for evidence here all the time.


[edit on 15/8/08 by Fastwalker81]

I just love these posts. 100% proof!!

I always like the idea that you can post anything on ATS
and get a constructive, and sometimes comical, explanation pertaining to the events.

I am sure most of us here, would only except 100% proof of Aliens, if they landed in our own backyard.
backyard and said Hi. I mean, who can believe what the media, government or drugged out farmer tells us.

Anyway good post, nice to see lots of interest...

Flagged

reply to post by macr59

There are people who refuse to believe any evidence that is contrary to their paradigm. I have friends who would refuse to believe in ET if a ship landed in their backyard, took them for a ride and brought them back. These people all have the same motto. Ignorance is bliss.
The Stephenville siting has eyewitnesses, radar confirmation, and an FAA statement basically saying "we don't know, or can't say what it was, but it was something."
A queston to all the die hard skeptics. What are you so afraid of?

reply to post by screamo


The chances of this UFO being the aurora are low, because the aurora is essentially a very fast airplane with a very high operational ceiling. So, while it would explain the speed (in fact, the aurora is even faster) it does not explain the witness reports nor the quick deceleration.

But the chances of it being the ASTRA are not so low. Then again, the astra is a bit closer to the realm of speculation. If it was an astra, the witnesses would have reported a triangle.

It still begs the question, why would a super secret airplane be tested in civilian airspace? don't they have groom lake for that? The use of civilian airspace makes it, at least in my mind, much more unlikely that this is an American vehicle.

reply to post by eaganthorn


You are mistaken to suggest that an airplane would appear to stop dead if it "became stealth" assuming that stealthyness was something controlled by a switch, which it is not, at least not in known craft. (and why would you ever want to stop being stealthy?)

When radar data is interpreted to represent that an object is still, it is because the object really is still, you get one sweep a second or two sweeps a second and you find that the object sends a return back on each sweep from the same distance. If this happens for, say, 40 sweeps, then you know that an object was still for 20 seconds and that there are 40 data points to back that up. That is what "standing still" means.

If an object became stealthy, it would be equivalent to the lack of any "return" for whatever length of time the object was seemingly "not there" and that would give you no information at all about where the object is, so you could not say it is "standing still". You would say it's "gone"

Keep in mind that the radar data that MUFON analyzed was "Raw" they literally got each return for each sweep and had to piece it back together using something like a spreadsheet. Therefore their interpretation of the data is pretty direct, without machine interpretation or interpolation of any sort.

The key to this report is the sudden rate of acceleration and deceleration, which really means conservation of momentum is quite possibly, if not violated, seriously challenged. That is something we could not do with any vehicle without structural damage given the size of the object, (yes you can stop a plane instantly, but it would break) even with no human occupant, unless some seriously weird technology was part of it.

-rrr

reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic


Sorry, that is not the only possibility. If you excluded extraterrestrial visitation as a possibility, it is actually just as likely likely hostile aircraft from another nation.

The suggestion that it was a test aircraft then begs the question, why test it over civilian airspace? and it is a good question. There are literally hundreds of thousands of square miles of unpopulated federally owned land, much of which is dedicated for these kinds of tests, where recovery teams can quickly be dispatched in the event of equipment failure. And tests are in fact usually conducted in those areas, such as Groom Lake. So, to go out of their way to bring an experimental craft over people's homes, at low altitude, would seem downright irresponsible, given the risks.

This is what lends credence to the view that this aircraft was either hostile or oblivious of our territorial boundaries.

I suppose another possibility is that it is a US craft but that it got there by mistake. But that is almost as worrisome

-rrr

Originally posted by rickyrrr
reply to post by AntisepticSkeptic

 

This is what lends credence to the view that this aircraft was either hostile or oblivious of our territorial boundaries.

-rrr

Perhaps exactly the opposite of oblivious of our boundaries.


In an earlier thread "Does Size Matter?" I postulated that the apparently "recent" arrival of "Very Big" UFO's could be representative of a change in contact strategy.

Throughout human history, inter-civilization contact has usually begun with small-scale meetings, generally between individuals from each culture: what we might refer to as "scouts".


As relations solidified, the size of the contact parties would grow and become more "formalized".


Ultimately, the two cultures would meet in a protocol-ladden, formal recognition ceremony; often accompanied by the most impressive display of wealth and power each culture could bring to bear. Usually explained as a show of "honoring" the other culture, these displays were generally meant to subltly intimidate and establish dominence.


IF these UFO's are extra-terrestrial in orign, and If their civilization of origin has studied human culture, as would be prudent, then, perhaps what we are seeing is an alien interpetation of a human cultral norm, played on an interstellar level.


On the other hand, if the pilots of these craft are not American...


Bend over and beg for mercy!

Originally posted by AntisepticSkeptic
That's just it... They're UFOs. Unidentified Flying Objects. You say the word 'phenomenon' like it was some kind of a scary spooky conspiracy out of the X-files.

The military was there at the same time this 'UFO' was there. They themselves admitted they were there. What's the problem here? What more do you people want? Any evidence that 'aliens' were there? NO.

Any press statements from the Galactic Federation League or whatever the hell these aliens supposed to call themselves were made? NO.

All other things being equal, the simplest solution is the best. |And that points this incident to the military plain and simple. Was there a coverup? Yes and I agree with you on that. Secrecy is crucial in mantaining a technical advantage. You don't need a terrorist as a potential threat if the secrecy of the US military is at stake, just throw some anti-establishment bigmouth conspiracy theorists and bigmouth UFOlogists and if they somehow get their hands on these government secrets, it would endanger the ENTIRE population that has nothing to do with their delusional and paranoid quest for 'disclosure' and their own money spinning agendas .

I'm really glad in WW2 these sort of people didn't work with the military. We would definitely have lost the war and I would be writing this post in german or japanese if that was the case.

1-The word phenomenon does not mean anything spooky or scary and I never used the word for this purpose. It was never intended to be used for "shock factor" because for those of us who know the definition of the word, it doesn't necessarily imply something wierd or extraordinary. But, yes, UFO activity is a phenomenon by definition of the word.

dictionary.reference.com...

Unidentified Flying Object does not imply ET from Zeta Reticuli probing people at random in the middle of the night. Most of the UFO sightings reported are probably explainable by very ordinary means. People don't always know what possibilities to rule out if they don't know what those possibilties are.. And some of these objects are probably geomagnetic anomalies also such as earth-lights. I never stated nor implied in my post that UFO's are alien spacecraft.

2-The military originally lied. They flew hundreds of miles off-coarse into civilian airspace (illegally) only to end up within a mile of one of these unknown radar returns. These objects had no transponders, they displayed maneuvers that are impossible for man-made aircraft of any kind, and the consistency of these radar tracks proves that something was really there performing these maneuvers. So when you say "you people" as if we are some kind of uneducated, ill-informed web geeks itching to find anything to talk about, you are wrong. All the evidence points to this being a very real phenomenon..

3-People in this area saw objects half a mile long, hovering while making no sound whatsoever. This was witnessed by multiple people.. With all the photos, all the videos, all the reports of sightings around this timeframe, if these were really some kind of secret military technology, why would the military fly this aircraft over a populated area for all to see.. and HOVER no less ... That argument that these are secret military craft is completely illogical in my view.. The military doesn't have any facility that can even house such an object, not to mention build it while keeping it secret to the rest of the world. It would be a MAJOR undertaking that would be nearly impossible to keep secret.

4-The MUFON report on the radar data states that the witness sightings of unidentified flying objects correlates with the locations of unknown radar returns from the same night and time.. How can that be so easily explained?

5-The simplest solution is always the best? That is not true all the time..And any conclusion one would make other than the conclusion that this is a UFO would be based on less evidence than there is to actually support that this was a major UFO event going on in Texas. All the documented reports, the videos, photos, and personal accounts add up to such a huge, irrefutable pile of evidence that it would be completely ridiculous to ignore this information.

6-You don't find it at all odd that the military has no information to submit to the report? Have you even read the report in its entirety? The dozens and dozens of radar sites around this area, and the military aircraft that flew in the area that night (including the aircraft that was probably an AWACS) all have data tapes that were "written over"??? And why would the government keep all of this secret by responding with the same dull reply to the FOIA requests? They all appear to be using it as a stonewalling tactic for the same purpose. But if this isn't a military aircraft, then what is it they are so intent on hiding?

These aircraft didn't have transponders so there was no way for any Air traffic controller to know what the aircraft were or who they belonged to. Due to the consistency of the radar returns of these unknown objects, these couldn't have been anything other than physical objects being tracked by radar intermittently. But if you look at the radar data, you will see that these objects were performing maneuvers that are not so easily explainable..

Please read the report and you will understand how obvious the secrecy really is. And if there really isn't anything to hide involving UFO's, why the secrecy? Couldn't the military have simply said "We are keeping that information secret due to reasons of national security"? Well obviously.. But they didn't.

-ChriS





[edit on 16-8-2008 by BlasteR]

reply to post by franspeakfree


No, an eye witness isn't a liar just because they aren't trained to accurately describe an aircraft. Ever hear an eye witness describe something they have never seen before?

Sounds like this, "it was like, oh my god, it was sooooo big, it was, really really, like weird and stuff, you know, it was moving, and it made this noise, like a bird but more like a elephant on helium, but much different from that, you know, it was like really, oh my god!! and it winked like.

They tend to have difficulty articulating, you know?

[edit on 8/16/2008 by eaganthorn]

Originally posted by Fastwalker81

Originally posted by masterp
MiG 25 and MiG 31 fighter planes can go over 2.5 Mach, and then there are the secret (or not so secret) military projects.

But can MiG 25 and MiG 31 fighter planes remain stationary in the air, turn on a dime and emit no noise when flying? Also can they go supersonic without creating a sonic boom?

I highly doubt this was a case of UFO.

It's a fact that this is a case of a UFO, so your comment above is off. It remains an Unidentified Flying Object to this day.

I am not saying that those craft were actually MiG 25/31. I am saying that man has invented machines that can fly to 3 Mach. And these UFOs are man-made machines.

Of course this is a case of Unidentified Flying Object, but it's not an alien spaceship.