Why the Persecution of Illegal Aliens

First off, I am a person. I am entitled with an opinion. A have a brain, as do all of you, and also have emotions. With that said, I was copying and pasting a lot of things and I was going to respond to allot of individual remarks, but that was way too much work. I am illegal. I do NOT support illegal immigration. But you say "how is it so?" I came to this country when I was like 18 months. Not my fault. People are people. Everyone has there own ideas. People of all races have been known to commit a wide variety of crimes.
I come from the Chicago suburbs. The Chicago metropolitan area has 33 million plus people. I know that some are illegal. I know Mexicans that are legal too know a Russia buddy that has overstayed his visa. I have cousins that are both citizens and residents. There world is not black and white. Not everyone comes here to steal your jobs not everyone comes to send money back to Mexico. Not every illegal immigrant goes to the hospital to get free services. Not every town in the US is suffering from unemployment. In fact, I got my job because they needed help in the summer.
I KNOW FOR A FACT that many immigrants pay taxes. I was watching the Colbert report last night and they had a famous journalist, Jorge Ramos, on the show he explained how a lot of the viewers were in fact citizens. JUST BECAUSE SOMONE IS BROWN YOU CANNOT KNOW THAT THEY ARE ILLEGAL. Now I don’t want to sound racist but there is a German person that said Central Americans have babies like rabbit have retarded children and beat there wives. I mean that is not even a valid argument. I don’t believe that I have assimilated with this culture. THIS IS MY CULTURE.
Now I don’t mind when people say that they have to learn English, but to ridicule someone for just coming in and not knowing the language is wrong, whether they are illegal or not. Heck, I studied some French. "They are having taxes, social security, and unemployment withheld from paychecks, that go unclaimed. U.S. citizens benefit from their tax payments, and they don't." This is very true. However, I haven’t seen people complain about it because they did come here illegally in the first place. For driver’s license and insurance, there wouldn't be a problem if they had a one to begin with. As for insurance, it can be obtained WITHOUT a license. Plus people of all types don’t always pay for insurance.
Now the reason I said that I don’t support immigration is for all the others that do spoil it for the rest of us. Many do join gangs because they do not feel welcome among other peers. I knew all this but it was confirmed when I took basic psychology. There are murders off all colors that flee when they commit crimes from there countries. Even whites run from the law to Mexico. Just remember that everyone is entitled to live no matter where they where born.
When you try to argue that they should fix their own country just remember how President Bush could still be in office. Why things like the patriot act get passed. It’s because they have little say in there own government. There is money to be made. Also think how the public views someone that is “unaccounted for”. The new RealD card will be able to track everyone carrying it. Guess who doesn’t get one? Illegals. What if you refuse one? You’ll be an outcast viewed like an illegal.

believe that securing the border isn’t going to be a solution it would help though. I don’t know how many have seen a show called "bulls#$%" by Penn and Teller. They explain that it’s easy to get by a fence. And the same people that are building the fence in some parts are illegal’s. It would be very costly and to have immigration reform would be a better route. My brother and I have discussed that a plan that would go by how long you are in the US would be a good plan. If your here for 10 years at least you should at be given an opportunity to be a legal resident. Something like that I think would work. Like someone said. It took there uncle 12 years to come to the US legally. If I was to be deported I would have to leave the country for and not be allowed to enter for years and probably decades because request for citizen ship of spouses children and parent of citizens comes first then they MIGHT give me a visa. My dad came from Mexico on a visa a few years ago, for 15 days and it took him years just for the visa. Most of the people that can come here are people that have money are sent money from here. Coming to the US legally isn’t a walk in the park.

When I get older I want to move to Europe. I cannot go anywhere at the moment because I cannot fly on a plane. If I wanted citizenship in -lets say- Holland and they didn’t accept my request because an illegal there got citizen ship I would not be angered. He, after all, has his life there and I would not want to take that away from him. I’m just putting a hypothetical situation out there because I don’t know the immigration laws in Europe.
I just saying all this stuff because I have to survive in this world I was dropped in. Sorry for any grammar mistakes, English wasn't my strong point (I lean more to logic and arithmetic).

reply to post by illegal mexican


I have Reported you to the appropriate authorities for the crimes that you have confessed to on this website.

I have sent them digital and printed copies of these confessions on this and other threads to them also.

You are in violation of The LAW and more importantly the T&C of this site.

How dare you.

reply to post by harvib


Harvib, I believe that most people who share my opinion on the issue would be very pleased if people would simply follow the rules when entering the country. I've heard many statements that we are hypocrites/ racist/ bigots because we want these laws followed and enforced. I believe that anyone who makes that statement is being simple minded. While it is true that there are those types of people, they exist on both sides of the arguement, furthermore they do not represent the majority of either side. I would be appreciative if people on both sides would address their claims of hypocrites, racists, and bigots to those who are actually acting in those ways instead of making blanket statements towards either side.(I'm not accusing you of this, just addressing you as you seem to keep it civil, and its your thread)

As someone else pointed out, this has been going on for a long time, and it has reached a point now that many people are speaking out on it. Wanting to enforce our Immigration Laws does not make one a hypocrite, and even if it does, that doesn't mean that the laws should not be enforced. I may have committed a crime and got away with it, but that has absolutely 0 to do with enforcement of any other laws.

If all these people were coming here to make a better life I might be swayed, but I'm sure we can all agree that not all of them are. Therefore some kind of order must be maintained to assure that those with ill intentions are kept out.

I don't necessarily place blame on the illegals themselves, though they did choose to commit the illegal act. This issue needs to be solved on multiple fronts... The ones already here need to be (with lack of a better phrase) "rounded up" and at least checked out. If they are clean and don't pose a threat then by all means allow them to stay and put them on the track to citizenship so that they can achieve the better life they came here for. If they pose a threat, i.e. criminal past and/or criminal present in the US and what have you, then they should be deported. Of course each should be handled on a case by case basis.

We also have to address the issue in our legal system, I think we can all also agree that it is broken and we need stronger border presence to prevent lots of things, not just illegal immigration.

Finally the flow of illegals accross the border needs to be cut down drasticly, this actually probably needs to be done first, or 2nd after the legal system, because we cant address the ones that are already here until we limit the amount of new ones arriving every day. Most of this needs to take place in the countries that they come from, though I have no clue how to go about that... But (and Im going to use Mexico in this example, please dont label me a racist for doing so) if the millions of illegal aliens from there had instead went to Mexico City and spoke out about their countries problems I think a lot would get done. Some may say its their "humanitarian right" to enter our country to help themselves and their families, it is also their right to demand better from their Gov. Things are bad in Mexico, I know... or at least I hear, but there's only one way to fix it, and there's only one group of people who can fix it, and its not the Americans...

just my 2 cents

[edit on 13-8-2008 by XTexan]

What about the steps in the citizenship process is important to you? Is it that you want individuals entering the Country to have earned their citizenship or is their more to it?



all the steps, and the problem comes in when u get a group that want to step over or around them,and i'm not saying that they all do. do u know that part of the citizenship process is to pledge loyalty to america, there are requirements to be a citizen , thats part of the problem, they feel that we should bend over backwards and hand it over, i see it this way if u dont want to pledge loyalty to america, if u dont want to learn about the many different cultures and become a citizen then dont come here, respect for u'r heritage is one thing, this however doesnt mean they have the right to walk all over the laws, or other cultural backgrounds that are already here , the laws here are in place for a reason. well at least most are in place for a good reason..lol some are just stupid..

[edit on 13-8-2008 by scorand]

[edit on 13-8-2008 by scorand]

well put x texan.. .. i whole heartedly agree with u..

reply to post by illegal mexican


i agree with u on this , it wasnt u'r fault and i know we need immigration reform but this is gonna be a long road and it may not be easy as there are quite a few very angry people on both sides that may be very stubbron about it..but with effort we should be able to get thru this .and i hope u gain u'r dream of moving to europe..

Good post xtexan. I agree with you. I remember hearing that years ago many students were killed because they were protesting. Also, a couple months ago, some other protesters were beaten up for being emo (I dont know what all that was). Protesting ends bad in most cases. Thats what a quick google search showed me, anyways. Mexico City has 6-8 protests a day. www.washingtonpost.com...

And thanks for your reply scorand and for understanding my situation. I wish there were more people like both of you. This would be solved alot faster.

By the way, great thread OP.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by illegal mexican]

I don't agree with it, but I can understand the argument for opening up the borders and allowing people to come in. I don't agree with it but I can understand the argument for legalizing marijuana. I don't agree with it, but I can understand the argument that any and all guns, including automatic weapons, should be legal. In a nutshell, I can at the very least understand many arguments about legalizing some activities that are illegal. This thread "Why the Persecution of Illegal Aliens", I cannot understand because this thread seems to say that illegally entering the United States should be okay, even if it is illegal.

let me say one thing about college, I am an american and proud to be part of the greatest country on Earth. The problem with illegals is that they dont share my values and neither do people who cant complete college. Only the best of the best should be citizens. McCain went to college and so did Bush. To be an american I find it imperative to be the best you can be in the service or out. Serving your country in the military is as important as developing new products, vaccines, or services that the world want only when it says MADE IN THE USA! made in the usa means made by americans not foreigners who come here bringing disease and are criminals. Not one illegal alien is safe from justice their all criminals. Going to college does not make me some kind of marginalized citizen nor the exception to the rule. I am the rule people who go to college are the ones who develop implement and set policy to preserve the true embodiment of what our founding fathers wanted and to interpret their needs based upon the needs of the present. Our founding fathers threw the british out and its high time we start rounding up anyone who cant prove their citizenship or lineage. Our corporate industrys need an edge and by using forced labor on a national scale we can increase our market share of the world economy be becoming a driving force in global economics. Be thankful this is a free country in some countries if you dont have id on you they arrest you and put you in jail. when i was backpacking through europe this summer there were some countries who were very restrictive, unlike the glorious USA!

reply to post by tigpoppa


Thanks for that grossly unpunctuanted, non-grammatically correct stream of consciousness.

What is your point?

Please clarify it for us - College Man...

[edit on 13-8-2008 by TruthTellist]

reply to post by harvib


Perhaps you have a liberal mouse.

The link works fine.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by Retseh]

Originally posted by harvib
What about the steps in the citizenship process is important to you? Is it that you want individuals entering the Country to have earned their citizenship or is their more to it?

1. The need to swear an oath of allegiance.

2. The need to swear an oath to protect the United States against all enemies, both domestic and foreign.

3. The need to pass an American history test.

4. The need to pass an English language test.

5. The need to have a clean criminal record.

All these are documented requirements, and yes, they are important.

Originally posted by illegal mexican
And thanks for your reply scorand and for understanding my situation. I wish there were more people like both of you. This would be solved alot faster.

By "solved" I assume you mean "allowed to stay here until some other country looks more attractive to me".

That isn't quite what we mean by citizenship.

Your screen name could only be described as brazen.

Originally posted by harvib
Ok. Can you help me to understand why this would bother you? Should other cultures not be allowed in America? I find this confusing as I thought America has always been a melting pot. Would this still bother you if migrants were coming in legally? I thought the premise of the majority was it is not a racial or cultural issue. Surely this is an indication that it is, at least in part. No?

You know, maybe I missed your earlier assertions on this issue, it is a long thread after all - but I have only seen you asking questions in the usual "why do you distrust Mexicans, they are decent honsest people you know" type of style.

Actual statistics aside, which show that the US has disproportionately huge illegal alien criminal activity as I posted earlier (with facts not just opinions), plus my own personal experiences of illegal aliens trying to break into our home here in the besieged city of Phoenix (83% of murder warrants issued in respect of illegals), not to mention a friend of mine who was forced to dispatch an illegal with a .45 when he was carjacked at gunpoint in Avondale.

My question is - what exactly do YOU propose as a solution to the illegal alien issue?

Are you a proponent for open immigration just from Mexico? do you hide behind the smoke screen of the guest worker program? do you support ANY immigration procedures at all?

Inquiring minds want to know, perhaps you have the solution to the crisis that we in the southwestern states are currently living through.

reply to post by harvib


It's the ol' "find a scapegoat that can't talk back and pin all the troubles you can on it" routine. It worked for the Nazis. It's a fantastic way to gain support - point out an obvious problem (unemployment, economic slump, etc.), and then invent an explanation that pins it to whatever scapegoat you want. The people desperate to fix the actual problem will then work on "fixing" the scapegoat.

Plus throw in some xenophobia, and you've got yourself a great little conspiracy going. Whenever someone points the finger at a group and says "they're to blame", look at the person pointing the finger. It usually sheds some light on the reasons for their vitriol, and when entire groups of people are blamed, those reasons are often not what is claimed.

reply to post by XTexan


I respect your opinion and the articulate way you express it. You have shown yourself post after post to be intelligent and level headed. I have a differing opinion of some statements made in your post but I do agree with some. I'm glad you have joined this discussion because without people like you polarized issues such as this become people bickering back and forth.

reply to post by tigpoppa

I support the idea of work camps.
I also support using the illegals for medical research.
Many illegals are healthy so they would make for a great sample for medical research.

preserve the true embodiment of what our founding fathers wanted and to interpret their needs based upon the needs of the present.

You speak of supporting the idea of forced labor camps and as using human beings for medical experiments, and then you make statements about preserving the ideology of our founding fathers?

reply to post by Retseh

Actual statistics aside, which show that the US has disproportionately huge illegal alien criminal activity as I posted earlier (with facts not just opinions),

Please review the link that the article provides. It disputes it's own accuracy. And the link to the supposed FBI stats says forbidden.

Can you provide a source for the data that shows how the sample was collected? A reference to a publication that received it's data from another person who wrote a book is not a source. Where, when, and how was the data collected. Generally when one does not provide this information the data should be at the very least considered questionable.

My question is - what exactly do YOU propose as a solution to the illegal alien issue?

Simple. Remove the Government beurocracies that create the ability for individuals to live off the fruits of others. That is the major complaint isn't it? Fine get rid of it all. Instead we create all these programs and then complain when people use them.

[edit on 13-8-2008 by harvib]

reply to post by dave420



You think that would be the lesson we would have learned from history. It is the oldest trick in the book. Ahhh, but you and I forget these are diffrent times and therefore we should ignore ALL the teachings of history...