Your all going in circles, save yourself the time.

I agree with OP, but for different reasons.

There shouldn't have to be a draft... we should all join up. The reason is:
'dance with the one what brung ya'. In other words- go with your civilization, period.

The US ( and I love her ) is a nation of cold- blooded murderers, most of whom are too cowardly to get splattered with blood.

Like the famous vomit episode with H. Himmler at the concentration camp.


We should stop hiring mercenaries for all this... we should scalp some Indians, rape some Okinawins, frag whole families. Otherwise, we might have to cut back on the thyroid gravy this Sunday. Can' t have that, right ?

Get in there deep and personal. Conscript 'em if you have to.

I question the reason for this post and others by this poster. Each post has been one of very narrow government knows best interpretation of reality inspired or a cointelpro profiling effort initiated by the OP. I am not sure which and if I openly speculate on this subject and start a thread about it the mod deletes the thread so I will pose my concern in this thread.

OK hotshot go ahead and join up. As for me it's been there, done that. Being 60
I've paid my dues a long time ago.

I think that we should be like most other countries in this world where at least the 18 yo boys have to serve at least a 2 year term. and in some cases even the women have to join as well!

Originally posted by Slothrop
the fact that you weren't able to vote for president bush doesn't mean you should be excused from national military service. the thing about being a patriot, about loving your country, is that you don't get to pick and choose which actions you agree with and which actions you disagree with. it's time we understand again that it is good and right to support one's country.

So you denounce communism and then basically spit that out of your mind which sounds like it was written by Stalin. Well done.

Originally posted by Slothrop
the gulf of tonkin incident was an example of a noble lie. it was necessary to convince the american people to enter a war whose purpose they wouldn't readily be able to understand.

A noble lie? I'm sorry but now you are paraphrasing Herman Guerring, do you even realise that? Propoganda is never a good thing froma government.

"The people can always be brought to do the bidding of the leaders, you simply convince them they are under attack and denounce the pacifists of lacking patriotism." - Herman Guerring

Originally posted by Slothrop
duly edited by the bean, upon recovery from indigestion from yesterday's mexican burritos and a multitude of bizarre postings from the mentally slothful.

i see and hear a lot of paranoia from the government instituting yet another level of godless unconcious fear in the current generation of american kids.

ever since vietnam, which was by definition (ie "war") violent, genocidal, suicidal, insane, karmic, evil, murderous and totally unnecessary, american democracy has been a toy of the ruling psychopathic elite, until it has now become no more than a empty concept to control the masses and make them think war and threats of total global annialation is continually necessary to maintain peace. And the government is now expected to bow down to ET greys and those goddamn reptilians and take it up the rear end. The public have fear and confusion, but still regrettably no compulsory slavery and coercion to kill another human brother or sister let alone ET's because someone else said so.

woe is me, an entire generation of americans is hypnotized to tolerate the constant need for war, murder, bloodshed, torture, nuclear holocaust, ecocide, sanctions, slavery, and margarine, needlessly cowering in fear while the world grows safer day by day whilst 99% of all human race merely needs a nice piece of toast with real butter to be happy.

these people should be made to realize that, by the false loyalties to the evil ruling classes, the constitution is at stake. a draft may be the only way to end all life on this planet as we know it.

well unfortunately the gulf of topkin was a staged event much like 9/11 was. Believe in the eyes of the New World Order there is no such thing as countries though I agree with you that kids today my generation are very stupid, lazy, complacent, media obssesed individuals. Try asking the ones who were drafted into Vietnam if they thought it was a good idea

Originally posted by Jenna

Originally posted by RavagedSky
A soldier is nothing but a paid murderer. I will never raise arms against someone I have never met just because a concept like "the government" tells me that violence and murder is ok when I do it in their name.

Really? What about the thousands of soldiers who have never even shot at someone let alone killed them? Are they paid murderers too? And you wouldn't shoot someone who was trying to kill you? Really? You wouldn't even attempt to save your own life? Have you any clue what restrictions our military is under? They cannot just shoot people, nor do they. If you actually spoke to someone who has been overseas you would know that they don't just shoot and kill everyone they see. They practically have to be shot before they can do anything to save their own lives.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Jenna]

There is quite a difference between defending yourself when an armed criminal breaks into your house in the middle of the night, and defending yourself in a land that does not belong to you where you have been deliberately dropped with weapons to force a brutal regime change.

You can't really call it self-defense when you know that your job title involves the high probability of being attacked.

You are a paid murderer if you are receiving payment to kill others. That's it. It doesn't matter if you're a soldier, a hitman, or a terrorist.

Patriotism is an immoral and vicious virtue.

"Patriotism in its simplest, clearest, and most indubitable meaning is nothing but an instrument for the attainment of the government's ambitious and mercenary aims, and a renunciation of human dignity, common sense, and conscience by the governed, and a slavish submission to those who hold power. That is what is really preached wherever patriotism is championed. Patriotism is slavery."
—Leo Tolstoy, Christianity and Patriotism

"A good soldier is a blind, heartless, soulless, murderous machine. He is not a man. He is not a brute, for brutes kill only in self defense. All that is human in him, all that is divine in him, all that constitutes the man has been sworn away when he took the enlistment roll. His mind, his conscience, aye, his very soul, are in the keeping of his officer. No man can fall lower than a soldier—it is a depth beneath which we cannot go."
— Jack London

I believe in protecting family, friends, property, happiness, and the right to life and liberty.

I do not, however, believe in protecting something as immoral and violent as a state.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by RavagedSky]

I voluntarily joined the Navy at 17. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me. Of course, there wasn't a war on at the time and I wouldn't have had to fight in any case because I'm female.

Nowadays, I work at a place that serves troubled males ages 11 - 17. I don't work directly with the boys as I am admin, but I did at one time and I still interact with them at meals and so forth.

Based on my background and experience, I can see the OP's point in one respect. I agree that our youth need discipline. In my personal opinion, many of them also need to learn compassion, respect, personal responsibility, and how to get up off their lazy behinds and DO something.

However, I'm not so sure a national military draft is the way to accomplish that.

I think the problem with many of these kids is that they have been pampered, spoiled, and overprotected. They don't feel part of anything; many of them seem not to even really feel part of their own family. They don't know what it means to contribute, and many of them have no concept of sharing. Making a contribution to their community would help some of that, and give them at least some exposure to discipline and responsibility. They might also learn the satisfaction of a job well done, becoming a contributing member of a community, following through on a commitment, and get some exposure to those less fortunate than themselves. (no matter who you are, there's always someone who fits that description)

I suggest we institute community service at the community (town, city, neighborhood, etc.) level, perhaps while they are still in high school or going to college, and do not pay them. Depending on what they are doing, they may get educational credits for their community service, but no monetary pay. There are lots of "jobs" that need to be done that no one is doing. As a part of the nonprofit world, I know that every agency is begging for volunteers because there are never enough.

So require the teenagers to do volunteer work for their community, for the community itself or for a worthy nonprofit. The structure to handle volunteers is already in place; as is the logistical structure for handling mandatory community service. it would cost very little and would provide at least some of the type of experiences that the OP and I both think American youth need.

(edit to insert words; sometimes my typing doesn't keep up with my thoughts)

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Heike]