a draft would be the best thing for this generation, page 9

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reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 05:49 PM by Jenna

reply to post by caballero

Unconstitutional, yet it's happened once already. Just because something is unconstitutional does not mean that it cannot happen. All men are created equal, yet blacks were segregated. Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness, yet two gay men cannot marry and neither can two lesbian women in the majority of states.

Typically, the older you are the more you know. So yeah, the "old" people are probably justified in thinking they know more than a teenager because they do. And no you don't have to go to war if you don't want to. For the sake of our soldiers who do want to protect their country I hope you never do.

Perhaps the majority of older generations think teenagers and those in their early 20's are lazy is because most are lazy, don't know how to work, and don't know how to earn anything. If you do, then good for you. Most teens and people in their early 20's do nothing more with their time than sit on the couch eating Cheetos and playing video games. Yes there are older people who do the same, but for the most part it's not the older generations doing it.

The following is not directed at Caballero or any other specific person on ATS:

I personally have not met any people who have said that they regretted their decision to join the military. Out of the hundred or so that I know, I can't remember any who did regret it. It takes a special kind of person to join the military, protect and serve our country, and for the most part bite their tongue when they hear people from their own country say that they are mindless killing-machines and robots.

These people that everyone puts down so vehemently are doing a thankless job that has to be done for you to be able to sit at your computer and belittle them. Next time you use your freedoms to say something to belittle the military, remember that it is our soldiers who keep that right for you. Unless perhaps you would rather we have internet censorship like China does...

Honestly a lot of people on this site make me angry and sick to my stomach with all the mindless drivel they write about the military. But I bite my tongue for the most part simply because it's not worth my time to explain anything when everyone is too stubborn and closed-minded to listen to anything that opposes their view point, especially if it has anything to do with the military.

So much for denying ignorance.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:00 PM by mike dangerously

Originally posted by Slothrop
i see and hear a lot of paranoia these days about the government instituting another draft. in my mind, a draft would be about the best thing for the current generation of american kids.

ever since vietnam, which was a necessary if unpopular war, american democracy has been debased until it has become no more than a tyranny of the masses. the government is now expected to bow down to popular cowardices and feelings of entitlement. we have welfare and food stamps, but no compulsory service to one's country.

an entire generation of americans is involved in their country in theory only, playing world of warcraft or writing blogs from the safety of basement rooms while the world grows more dangerous day by day.

these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way.

Yes,send a bunch of expendable assets to fight to preserve the empire,while you sit in realtive safety and proclaim yourself a "true patriot" typical chicken hawk BS we have had for far too long in the US.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:07 PM by jerico65

reply to post by Jenna

Thanks. Very well put.

(yeah, I know it's a one line post, but Jenna's statement was very good.)

[edit on 7-8-2008 by jerico65]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:17 PM by mike dangerously

Originally posted by WolfofWar
Let's go ahead and have a draft.

BUT, lets only draft every son and daughter of every representative, senator, general, and administration cabinet member.

That way, if they are willing to start a war or fight a war, it will be their blood on the line.

Ah,a good idea Wolfy!

let's see how patriotic these guys wearing flag pins really are...

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:19 PM by Anonymous ATS

It obviously takes a lot for someone of an older generation to admit to himself and to everybody else that takes the time to read these posts that he is one man and one man alone cannot change the world. Instead of playing the blame game; which doesn't seem to accomplish anything good for anyone, I think it's time that we work together, besides fighting in wars where we're just pawns. It's time to throw the chess board out the window because being a pawn in someone Else's war is not the answer. It's a battle of the wits and the witless go out to die...willing or unwilling.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:20 PM by iceofspades

Originally posted by Jenna

I personally have not met any people who have said that they regretted their decision to join the military. Out of the hundred or so that I know, I can't remember any who did regret it. It takes a special kind of person to join the military, protect and serve our country, and for the most part bite their tongue when they hear people from their own country say that they are mindless killing-machines and robots.

Hmm....maybe they get that flack because they ARE mindless killing robots. The mission of the military, for at least the past century has done nothing to indicate they have any intention of protecting the united States.

Take special consideration in the way I didn't capitalize the "united" in "united States". The United States, instituted about half-way in our country's history, is not the same institution that the founding fathers helped create, nor is it one related in any way to the Constitution of the united States.

You see, it's no coincidence that the United States is quite firmly a corporation. It's not ironic that Exxon, GE, Halliburton, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Raytheon, etc etc etc are also corporations. It's no mistake that all these companies' revenues exponentially multiply during wartime ("ironically" once more, the country has been in a state of war for over a century now).

My point is, with a little tiny bit of research alone, it is inescapable to see that war leads to gain for only those not on the battlefield. It is, in my opinion, the sign of a weak-minded individual to join the army, since in order to do so one must not have any sort of thought patterns aside from those the government-operated media implements.

[edit on 8/7/2008 by iceofspades]

[edit on 8/7/2008 by iceofspades]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:30 PM by Jenna

Originally posted by iceofspades

Hmm....maybe they get that flack because they ARE mindless killing robots. The mission of the military, for at least the past century has done nothing to indicate they have any intention of protecting the united States.

Really? So does that mean that people who repeat what other people say instead of original thoughts are mindless robots? Make sure you go say thanks to a soldier that you were able to say that.

You do realize that it is not the soldiers but congress and the president that are responsible for the war right? You do realize that the military doesn't just come up with orders out of thin air right? Maybe instead of putting down the people who are protecting your rights you should take it up with congress and the president. Or better yet run for one of those offices and change how things are. That would be more effective that mindlessly repeating that the soldiers are robots.

It is, in my opinion, the sign of a weak-minded individual to join the army, since in order to do so one must not have any sort of thought patterns aside from those the government-operated media implements.

It is, in my opinion, the sign of a weak-minded individual to criticize things that they have only a rudimentary knowledge of at best. Some of the smartest people in our country have served or are currently serving. Military service, or lack thereof, is not an indicator of intelligence level. Though arguments can be.

My husband says: 00110101 110000101011

That's robot for you're welcome.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by Jenna]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:35 PM by SUNRAY06

A draft for a war? NO and Three times NO. The current administration and the supposed opposition party have shown no respect for the rule of law or the will of the people. We are embroiled in a questionable action in Iraq..and a lackluster effort in Afghanistan..if we are going to allow our hero's to be so casually wasted and poorly supported by the VA and the organizations that puport to be involved in care for the returning soldiers..I say hell NO.
Perhaps we need to raise the DRAFTEE AGE to 65..and then see how much war we want to wage. LEAVE THE KIDS ALONE. NO BLOOD FOR OIL..
Or if you prefer...right after they DRAFT YOU.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:38 PM by SUNRAY06

Originally posted by sir_chancealot

Originally posted by Slothrop
Star Star Star Star Star..How many wars would be fought at all then?
Not many by those folks..they have too much to lose.

I ABSOLUTELY AGREE WITH YOU! THERE SHOULD BE A DRAFT! And here is who should be drafted, and sent IMMEDIATELY to the front lines in Iraq.

1) Anyone with a net worth over $10 million dollars. You've benefited the most from the freedoms here, you pay the heaviest price.

2) Anyone who's pay is more than $1,000,000 a year, in WHATEVER form it takes (stock options, bonuses, etc.). Same reason as above.

3) EVERY SINGLE BOARD OF DIRECTORS AND TOP MANAGERS of ANY company, public or private, who has profited a SINGLE DOLLAR on the war in Iraq.

4) Every single politician above the township level in America, including all the whitehouse, both houses of congress, and ALL federal and state judges.

Now, THERE is a draft we can agree on! Institute a draft like that, and watch war come to an end in our lifetime!

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:45 PM by patriot jim

I remember the night, Dec 19th 1969- when the draft lottery was done. I was lucky but many were not- their futures were takened over by a government that does not care about you, period. We were very upset about the draft- and this led to alot of positive action by good people. ex. lowering voting age- about the only good thing about the draft- that it would definitely stir people up and really push for change. funny what people do when their backs are to the wall

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:52 PM by moocowman

reply to post by Sleuth

Because someone has to have the balls to defend this place I call home. You obviously aren't interested in doing so. With neighbors like you, who needs enemies?

Ahem, it is all about Iraq madam, and of course Afghanistan, and whos next on the agenda ? I believe thats Iran isn't it ?

Was it not the leaders and instigators of the war in Iraq who sold the alledged terrorists their weapons ?

Was it not the Bin Laden family who were given safe passage after 911 by the leaders of this war etc etc ?

Why is a draft even being thrown into the arena ?

Haliburton are doing a fine job are they not ?

The gamers of today are the programmers of tomorrow, they're seeing the big lie , it is inevitable they will defend their country, but from the enemy within it.

THOSE WHO CREATE WARS FOR PROFIT

red or blue pill slick?

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:54 PM by MrGrieves

reply to post by Jenna

I respond to the posts saying "A draft would toughen up these fat computer dorks." etc.
I know quite a few soldiers who are indeed over-weight, and like to play computer games more than I'll ever understand. But no, I don't think ALL soldiers are robots. Actually, my friend Steven who chose to fight in the war, I consider to be one of the most intelligent people I know. He, among others, regret their decision to fight and kill just to make our pathetic president more money.
The ones that feel war is the only way to fix this broken country are the ones I call robots.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 06:59 PM by iceofspades

Originally posted by Jenna

You do realize that it is not the soldiers but congress and the president that are responsible for the war right? You do realize that the military doesn't just come up with orders out of thin air right? Maybe instead of putting down the people who are protecting your rights you should take it up with congress and the president. Or better yet run for one of those offices and change how things are. That would be more effective that mindlessly repeating that the soldiers are robots.

You sound like a robot yourself. I'm sick of hearing the whole dogma about the 'military protecting our freedom' blah blah blah BLAH. It's complete and utter B.S.

Like I said before, today's military has no interest in protecting freedom (aside from the drones at the bottom who don't seem to know how to open a book). This is precisely because, as you said, the Executive branch gives the orders.

You're probably not aware of this; most people aren't....

Ratified by congress in 1933, pursuant to Executive Order No. 2040, all US citizens were declared enemies of the state.

An enemy of the state is a person accused of certain crimes against the state, such as treason. Describing individuals in this way is sometimes a manifestation of political repression. For example, an authoritarian regime may purport to maintain national security by describing social or political dissidents as "enemies of the state".

-en.wikipedia.org...

This is still fully in effect.

-------------

The US went bankrupt about 1933.

To cover the debt in 1933 and future debt, the corporate government determined and established the value of the future labor of each individual in its jurisdiction to be $630,000. A bond of $630,000 is set on each Certificate of Live Birth. The certificates are bundled together into sets and then placed as securities on the open market. These certificates are then purchased by the Federal Reserve and/or foreign bankers. The purchaser is the "holder" of "Title." This process made each and every person in this jurisdiction a bond servant.

-www.usavsus.info...

----------------

Ever been in a court room? Then you've seen the iconic gold-fringed flag. But what does it mean?

The flags displayed in State courts and courts of the United States have gold or yellow fringes. That is your WARNING that you are entering into a foreign enclave, the same as if you are stepping into a foreign embassy and you will be under the jurisdiction of that flag. The flag with the gold or yellow fringe has no constitution, no laws, and no rules of court, and is not recognized by any nation on the earth, and is foreign to you and the United States of America.

-www.apfn.org...

--------------------

Just a couple clips from the little tiny bit of research I mentioned. For any level-minded person, these verifiable facts should be enough to determine that being an accessory to these usurpations by joining the military is unacceptable. It should be enough to realize that fighting for this corporate venture which acts under the guise of a republic is in no way protecting the Constitution or 'god-given' freedoms of the people.

Being ignorant of these facts does not make joining the military 'okay' in my eyes.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:10 PM by Michael Pait

Ray J says less people should join the army.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:14 PM by caballero

reply to post by Jenna

First off let me say no just because you are older does not mean you know more about the values of life. It does not mean you can come up with idiotic plans to throw teens into combat, and the simple fact that an adult did spout out this nonsense is proof of that. Its the experiences in your lifetime that mature you. Im pretty sure children who grow up in war striken countries can go as proof to that statement they learn the true values of life way faster than anyof us do.

Are you sure about your military friends? were they ever in combat? My parents were in the military as well and they liked it too but they never had to watch their friends die, they never had to kill, they never had to face death on a day to day basis. I would not want to meet the man who can kill someone or hundreds of people and not feel any regret for it. Mindless robots kill without feeling. Almost every documentry where WWII vets are interviewed they still cant keep from feeling guilt or regret one vet even said "why did i deserve to live and not them?". Doesnt sound like a very happy statement.

Since you want to deny ignorance so bad deny the ignorance in your own statements, war does mess you up big time, and for those who dont get messed up are mindless killing machines. Since I highly doubt youve seen any combat follow your own words of wisdom and dont talk about what you dont know, who are you to say that a soldier who has killed doesnt feel any regret. Shame on you.

Why is it that war is the only option for peace? Thats is the dumbest thing in the world to me, war only breeds more hatred which turns into more war. Peace breeds peace, so instead of sending our country's future to war why not teach us the importance of peace and peace making?

Because every single modern conflict is fabricated, they make it seem noble but they only want to line their wallets. So as long as we let them force us into war we stop any type of peace from forming.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by caballero]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:22 PM by stalphos

Originally posted by Slothrop
reply to post by thegdfather

the thing about being a patriot, about loving your country, is that you don't get to pick and choose which actions you agree with and which actions you disagree with. it's time we understand again that it is good and right to support one's country.

Take a good look at these two images:

Do you see any borders?

I didn't think so.

A "country" is nothing more than a made up idea created by people who desire to control the masses. Patriotism is an idea created by those in power to encourage the masses to "stand up for something" that they "believe in" and of course those little somethings that we are supposed to believe in are ideas that were given to us by those who seek to control us.

This planet was not designed to be divided and conquered by a few wealthy men.

Furthermore, those of us who are aware of this will not be forced to be shot in the face for someone else's power tripping search for wealth and conquest. The end.

[edit on 8/7/08 by stalphos]

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:26 PM by iceofspades

reply to post by caballero

I change my statements based on yours. Not all soldiers are mindless killing machines, because those who survive the actual engagements tend to feel great guilt for some of the things they did. Moreso, it's the commanders who are the robots, and the politicians have the remote.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:32 PM by Dulcimer

yeah war! WAR WAR WAR WAR WE NEED TO KILL PEOPLE PEOPLE. WAR !!!!!

the kids in the basements playing fake war are the heroes.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:33 PM by Xilvius

reply to post by Slothrop

I think that's a retarded idea. I'm all for fighting for freedom, but I'm not going to go along with getting drafted to fight for someone elses own personal gain. We shouldn't even bee occupying the middle east right now. If you think back to the first amount of troops sent over there, when bush asked congress to goto war, they said NO. However he did as he wanted and sent them over there. I have enough problems to worry about in my life right now than a draft. Like I previously said, I have no problem fighting for the freedom of my country, but I don't think the middle east is/was an issue until bush was in office.

reply posted on 7-8-2008 @ 07:34 PM by havingfun

I couldn't help but laugh at these some of these posts. Unfortunately, I will disagree with the OP. I do not want anyone in my unit that doesn't want to be there. I want people to WANT to serve and I know that uniformed service can help 90% of young men and women attend their personal goals but only 2% will ever step up. The ones that don't have every right not to.

I see people like Iceofspades and I kind of chuckle a little bit. Apparently I am mindless and weak minded.

Do me a favor kid, keep working. I need those federal income taxes you pay. I actually owe you thanks my friends each and every person in here that has paid their taxes. You have put me and my wife in college, you paid for my cars, my sweet guitars and a wicked Ibanez bass, I'm about to get my second plasma TV from you, My 1 year old son's college savings fund is coming along pretty nice. I am also in the market for a house pretty soon (pending PCS move.) and soon enough I will transfer to the Warrant Officer corps and get a even sweeter raise.

Money doesn't buy happiness but it does get you alot less sadness.

Truth be told the most important thing i have gotten out of all this is the experience. You don't know peace like I know peace. You haven't seen beauty until you have seen the setting sun dance across the desert horizon or smelled your wife's perfume after a year of smelling sand. You just haven't lived like I have my friend.

Carry on with your meaningless conversation now.