a draft would be the best thing for this generation

i see and hear a lot of paranoia these days about the government instituting another draft. in my mind, a draft would be about the best thing for the current generation of american kids.

ever since vietnam, which was a necessary if unpopular war, american democracy has been debased until it has become no more than a tyranny of the masses. the government is now expected to bow down to popular cowardices and feelings of entitlement. we have welfare and food stamps, but no compulsory service to one's country.

an entire generation of americans is involved in their country in theory only, playing world of warcraft or writing blogs from the safety of basement rooms while the world grows more dangerous day by day.

these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way.

why exactly was vietnam a necessary war ? i assume you do know that the gulf of tonkin incident that brought us in to the war was a staged false flag operation and has been admited as such. so why was it necessary again?

No thanks, I don't need to serve you. I like my freedom. I'll go on getting educated in college now, while you spend time spreading ideas contrary to my personal liberty to do so.

Originally posted by Slothrop
these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way.

Really? I'm only a patriot if I participate in some criminal's godless, unlawful war half-way around the world that would otherwise have no bearing on my life whatsoever, seeing how these people poise no threat to my well-being? Am I not a patriot for instead protesting such a war, as it is a violation of the Iraqi and Afghani and surly many others' civil rights; those same rights that we hold so dear to us at home (slipping away as they are)? So be it, label me as a dissenter.

[edit on 7-8-2008 by NexGenRevolution]

You are SO right!

The best thing for me (and my generation) would be the opportunity to patriotically...get shot in the face.



What kind of person wants to force me and my friends to die? And for what; so those that manage to live/avoid the draft can 'build some character'?

Nothing helps strengthen that stiff upper lip like attending alot of funerals.

Such ridiculous bull[snip].

[edit on 8/7/0808 by spines]

Originally posted by Slothrop
i see and hear a lot of paranoia these days about the government instituting another draft. in my mind, a draft would be about the best thing for the current generation of american kids.

I think the best thing for you would be a quick reality check. Is the only thing that makes one a patriot the fact they have been FORCED to serve in some war? I don't think so.

Originally posted by Slothrop
ever since vietnam, which was a necessary if unpopular war

Necessary? Give me a break. What about Vietnam was necessary?

Originally posted by Slothrop
an entire generation of americans is involved in their country in theory only, playing world of warcraft or writing blogs from the safety of basement rooms while the world grows more dangerous day by day.

War is the last thing the world ever needs and no one should ever be forced to fight for a cause they do not believe in.

I think it is about time for people like you to realize it is not the job of America and for damn sure not the job of an 18 year old kid to play world police. Especially just because you think they need to grow up and do something for their country. You do realize people can do things for their country without being forced to fight in unnecessary wars. Don't you?

Originally posted by Slothrop
these people should be made to realize that, in being a patriot and a citizen, something is always at stake. a draft may be the only way.

You want to force kids to fight a war because you are pissed at them for playing games and writing blogs? I mean, yeah... That's what every kid is doing, right? No one of draft age is doing anything but posting blogs and playing video games. Get real.

If you actually gave a crap you would see that anyone's time is better spent in an attempt to fix the problems we have in our own country and not destroying another one.

You are a bitter, bitter man aren't you? I hope I helped you realize that.

[edit on 8/7/2008 by apolluwn]

Why should we fight for the mistakes, apathy, greed, and laziness of our elders? We weren't alive 20 years ago to make decisions in our government, to stand up and vote. To not elect bush to two terms, we didn't get distracted with Clintons BJ why everything else went downhill. You say that we need to get involved? What about your generation that that elected these current officials and stood by as they passed laws that tore away the democracy from this country? What did you do?

I know I wasn't old enough to vote so what could I do? I already gotta worry about getting through college and then finding a job if possible in the future economy. WE already have to worry about dealing with the results of your current mistakes because you sure as hell won't be paying for them, we will. If that isn't enough already you know expect me to pick up a weapon and kill another human being (terrorist or no terrorist) just because you deem it a "necessary war"?

By the way i'm 20 years old and I never have played world of warcraft or wrote a blog. But I have slept in a basement, my apologies.

Why should we fight for the mistakes, apathy, greed, and laziness of our elders? We weren't alive 20 years ago to make decisions in our government, to stand up and vote. To not elect bush to two terms, we didn't get distracted with Clintons BJ why everything else went downhill. You say that we need to get involved? What about your generation that that elected these current officials and stood by as they passed laws that tore away the democracy from this country? What did you do?

I know I wasn't old enough to vote so what could I do? I already gotta worry about getting through college and then finding a job if possible in the future economy. WE already have to worry about dealing with the results of your current mistakes because you sure as hell won't be paying for them, we will. If that isn't enough already you know expect me to pick up a weapon and kill another human being (terrorist or no terrorist) just because you deem it a "necessary war"?

By the way i'm 20 years old and I never have played world of warcraft or wrote a blog. But I have slept in a basement, my apologies.

reply to post by krill

why exactly was vietnam a necessary war ? i assume you do know that the gulf of tonkin incident that brought us in to the war was a staged false flag operation and has been admited as such. so why was it necessary again?

the gulf of tonkin incident was an example of a noble lie. it was necessary to convince the american people to enter a war whose purpose they wouldn't readily be able to understand.

vietnam was absolutely necessary to stop the spread of communism and protect us interests in southeast asia. it's easy to deny now that communism was a real menace, but people who were around then and even those of us who weren't but who do understand geopolitical strategy and reality understand that the us vs the communists was a war of survival that needed to be won by any necessary means.

reply to post by thegdfather

Why should we fight for the mistakes, apathy, greed, and laziness of our elders? We weren't alive 20 years ago to make decisions in our government, to stand up and vote. To not elect bush to two terms, we didn't get distracted with Clintons BJ why everything else went downhill. You say that we need to get involved? What about your generation that that elected these current officials and stood by as they passed laws that tore away the democracy from this country? What did you do?

i didn't "stand by", i worked to get bush elected and in college i worked as a volunteer when we were working against clinton.

the fact that you weren't able to vote for president bush doesn't mean you should be excused from national military service. the thing about being a patriot, about loving your country, is that you don't get to pick and choose which actions you agree with and which actions you disagree with. it's time we understand again that it is good and right to support one's country.

reply to post by apolluwn

I think it is about time for people like you to realize it is not the job of America and for damn sure not the job of an 18 year old kid to play world police. Especially just because you think they need to grow up and do something for their country. You do realize people can do things for their country without being forced to fight in unnecessary wars. Don't you?

there should be a national service option associated with the draft. either military conscription or national service, but national service has to be real, hard work. kind of like the way israel does it.

Originally posted by Slothrop

there should be a national service option associated with the draft. either military conscription or national service, but national service has to be real, hard work. kind of like the way israel does it.

Our draft is not set up that way. It is as simple as that.

Originally posted by Slothrop
the thing about being a patriot, about loving your country, is that you don't get to pick and choose which actions you agree with and which actions you disagree with.

Give me a break.

It comes down to this; We have the right to disagree with the actions we do believe in.

If you want everyone to be a mindless zombie drone who blindly does whatever they are told despite their own personal convictions then maybe you would be happier with a communist state, or even just one that does not allow you to disagree with the actions of the government.

If you fancy yourself so patriotic and loving of this country then maybe you should respect some of the things that make this country so great...

[edit on 8/7/2008 by apolluwn]

reply to post by apolluwn

Our draft is not set up that way. It is as simple as that.

you're aware we don't presently have a draft? when we implement a new one, we can set it up any way we want.

of course people are allowed to disagree with the government. they can think, speak and vote however they please. but they should also be required to spend time serving their country in one way or another when they come of age. it's in the best interest of both the country and the development of the individual citizens.

Originally posted by Slothrop
you're aware we don't presently have a draft? when we implement a new one, we can set it up any way we want.

I know this. Look at the bills proposed since the Iraq invasion. They are basically identical. What makes you think this would change if it was reinstated?

Originally posted by Slothrop
of course people are allowed to disagree with the government. they can think, speak and vote however they please. but they should also be required to spend time serving their country in one way or another when they come of age. it's in the best interest of both the country and the development of the individual citizens.

You are contradicting yourself. You realize this don't you?

Either they can think and disagree, or they can not. You are on both sides of the fence now.

Edit:

I would also like to add that I find it very disturbing that you believe the government should have control over the development of citizens. How is that in anyone's best interest? They have done a splendid job thus far developing the minds of children since they took over educating them.


[edit on 8/7/2008 by apolluwn]

Originally posted by Slothrop
the thing about being a patriot, about loving your country, is that you don't get to pick and choose which actions you agree with and which actions you disagree with. it's time we understand again that it is good and right to support one's country.

I think instead I WILL pick and choose my own actions, with those that I agree with taking precedence over those that i disagree with. The thing is, i'm looking out for number one here before I'm going to worry about two and a half million other people whom I don't know and a government that is as corrupt as can be.

Your ideals might hold water with a majority of the American public if we were in the year, say, 1941, but the cause now is nothing compared to what it was then (of course the cause then probably wasn't what it seemed to be either). There isn't too much about this present-day conflict that instills the same pride and national fervor that the wars of yesteryear did.

The government can use robots to fight the wars now.

Humans are gay. Too fat, weak, and slow. The older generation were the ones who created the computers to assist them in war. And now they blame computer games with war themes in them. ie world of warcraft





[edit on 7-8-2008 by Snake Plisskin]

Originally posted by Slothrop
i see and hear a lot of paranoia these days about the government instituting another draft. in my mind, a draft would be about the best thing for the current generation of american kids.

Well, I'm glad that you think the draft would be good for YOU!
I'm definitely not going.
But hey, maybe they will teach capitalization in the army.

"vietnam was absolutely necessary to stop the spread of communism and protect us interests in southeast asia. it's easy to deny now that communism was a real menace, but people who were around then and even those of us who weren't but who do understand geopolitical strategy and reality understand that the us vs the communists was a war of survival that needed to be won by any necessary means. "

to stop the communist expansion ??

40 years on and you're still arguing the same non sense? whether you want to accept reality or completely be in denial you were lied into an unnecessary war, which cost the lifes of 50,000 american servicemen, and 3.5 million civilians.
it's now widely accepted the war was nothing more than a business venture for your greedy corperate military industry, and trust me they would have sacrificed another 50,000 american service men if the opportunity existed for more money to be made

how exactly did you stop communism in it's tracks?? last time i checked you lost the war, and today vietnam is your trading partner... wow, way to go fighting communism.




[edit on 7-8-2008 by aboveandbeyond94]

[edit on 7-8-2008 by aboveandbeyond94]

I like how you say you didn't stand by and let the country go to hell. As proof of this, you worked to get Bush elected. Corrupt, criminal Bush number two. I see also that you supported corrupt, slightly less criminal Bush number one. Congrats, you provided a real service. I mean, it's not like the country has gotten 50 times worse in the past 7 years.

So tell me, how would serving in the military help me become a better person and better American? Really, it just seems to me that it would help me to learn to submit to whatever someone with more money than myself decides I should be doing.

I won't even begin to tell you what I came from or where I've pulled myself up from. I will however say that I now have a good job and future in health care (which I realize is far from the most noble field, but I help more people in a single day doing my job than I would being target practice for someone who is justifiably upset about the means by which my country "assisted" theirs). I've carved myself a nice little life out of almost nothing and I will fight for and fiercely protect what I have made myself and my family. I will not fight for someone else and their agenda or money.

I did all of this after at the age of 18 being turned away by the American military. At that age, with whatever problems I had, I believed I could do some good as a Marine. I also thought it was my only option and last chance to redeem myself. They had other feelings, and I was left to figure out what to do without the only plan I had in place.

Maybe I have a guardian angel or something else I don't really believe in, but something kept me from joining that wasn't a series of recruiters. A few months after my final denial, 9/11 happened and started a chain reaction that showed me how wrong I was to think that was my only way of helping people, and how corrupt the officials I would have been fighting for were.

Anyway, when the fight comes to me, I will be more than happy to fight and possibly give my life on my terms for what this country SHOULD BE and a Constitution meant to better us as people and a National whole. I will NOT fight a war on the soil of someone else, for the almost sole benefit of someone else, under the terms of someone else and "for" a constitution stripped down by some one else to serve their personal agenda(s).

So don't lump a whole generation together, and don't be so quick to try to volunteer the lives of others for something they probably don't believe in. Some of us are smart enough to see people like you for what you really are. By the way, I'm 25 and have never played a computer game, never had a blog and never slept in a basement. Sorry to ruin your stereotype.

Sorry for the rant. People and comments like this really get under my skin.

OMG, Slothrop, I kind of agree with you, but not for the same reasons.

I think the US should have mandatory military service like many other countries. Those basement bloggers and video gamers need some discipline and they desperately need a gut level understanding of what it is to sacrifice on behalf of their fellow citizens.

It's too easy for the do-nothings to fingerpoint and armchair quarterback. I don't agree with the war in Iraq, but I don't think those who have never served have a right to judge those who do. If you've never put on a military uniform and carried a weapon for your country, you have no clue what it's like to do so.

Criticize the government that sent the troops there, but not the troops themselves. They signed up to protect the US. Right or wrong, they have to go wherever the president sends them.

Throughout our history, men and women have gone to war to preserve that thing that guarantees our freedom here, the Constitution, and to start other countries on the path to the same kind of freedom.

Thousands have died so that bloggers and gamers and protesters and couch potatoes can flap their jibs without worrying about jackboots at the door.

Today's youth talk the talk, but few walk the walk. Smells like - cowardice. You want freedom? Earn it.