Oh, I know Mr Stevens very well

He may well be an ex TV weather presenter, but I'd say all his ex viewers know more about the weather than he does.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Except my breath doesn't linger for hours, nor does it slowly spread out and obliterate bright blue skies.

Exactly why a low vapour pressure is needed, again like I explained in the OP. Without the low vapour pressure (and temperature) you will never have anything persisting. The higher you go the lower the vapour pressure, so in between 20,000 and 30,000ft, the conditions wont be anything like those experienced on the ground

Double Post

[edit on 6/8/2008 by OzWeatherman]

First, I don't see chemtrail as a scientific term, it's more of a cultural meme, which refers to atmospheric spraying for whatever purpose the sprayers are intending. It refers to planes laying down thick contrails with a defined purpose, instead of normal contrails produced by their engines.

With that in mind, I will give my own personal witness account.

Up untill this year, a couple of months ago, I didn't give much creedence to the chemtrail meme. It wasn't part of my reality, I had not seen anything to prove it. However I had been noticing a haze on the horizon that was not there in previous years.

I live on an island, in the atlantic ocean. We have an international airport, with a 2700m long runway. The air traffic here is pretty well defined. We have a handfull of local small planes. A couple of regional island hoppers. A regular influx of mid range twin engine jets, mostly boeings and airbus. A few fokker's. The odd Embrear. They come in, drop tourists, pick tourists up, go away. Ocasionally we have military planes, but these are rare. There's a fair bit of traffic, hundreds of flights a week, but no need for holding patterns. I live near the flight path most used for landings. Other than this local traffic we only see big jets, widebodies flying overhead at around 30 000ft going to south america, and ocasionally aircraft going near the horizon down to the canary islands. As you can see, it's all identifiable, and having been interested in planes most of my life I can usually visually make out what I'm seeing.

But this one day it was different. We had two smaller twinjets out over the ocean. They were pretty far out, around 30-50kms. They were between 3000 and 6000ft high, closer to 3000 I think. They were white with blue tails, but too far out for my crappy binoculars to identify. And they were laying down a grid pattern of trails in the late afternoon. I watched them do this for around an hour, then they left. Overnight the trails widened out into thick cloud cover. And it rained the other day, lightly. There was a white particulate in the rain. Almost like ash. A few phonecalls to friends who work at the airport confirmed that two planes were indeed in one of the holding pattern areas asigned the airport (which is never used). They didn't land. They came from somewhere else, laid down their trails and left.

So you guys can try to debunk chemtrails all you want. I know they are indeed real.

silver iodide is a silver salt that helps in artificial cloud seeding. Its been happening for quite sometime now. Those are your chemtrails and yes seeding clouds is weather modification.

Perhaps you could show these Chemtrail believers random pictures and ask them to point out the chemtrails?

It would be easier to prove them wrong than to prove yourself right, wouldn't it? I'd say the biggest amount of info has already been given, so it's up to them to do something with it.

*What do you think a chemtrail is?*
*What do you think a chemtrail looks like?*
*Do you think this picture has a chemtrail in it?*

Only thing is you'd have to have undeniable proof that it's actually a contrail rather than a chemtrail.

And I think that other person is right, trying to debunk chemtrails here is sort of impossible, because there's always someone that's thick-headed on the chemtrail side. (Same can be said for almost any subject and any side)

Though your attempt to do so is appreciated

[edit on 6/8/08 by -0mega-]

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
" What do you care if people believe in chemtrails or not?

I said at the start of the thread that this was mainly for the people who are 50/50 on the chemtrail theory, to give them another side of the argument. I care that sometimes, people are scaremongered into believing theories which are bias, and not plausible or factual.

The fact is, evidence that proves the existence of chemtrails is now overwhelming.

What evidence? I still see nothing to disprove the meteorological science and chemistry of it all

It's shown up in U.S. patents and legislation and it's also been verified by a variety of scientists, government whistleblowers, airline managers and mechanics

And for every scientist, aircraft mechanic/pilot that says its true (and their credentials are not always verified) another 100 say its not ture or even possible. Just to add, I have seen those sites before too

So feel free to carry on your crusade. Maybe you don't see the chemtrails in Australia like we do in the States (probably not, since they're all over New Zealand too

Thankyou I will continue to educate. We see less in Australia, due to lack of air traffic. The pro chemtrail sites say that most sightings occur in the USA and West Europe, strangely where most of the worlds air traffic is too.

Chemtrails are very real, and they're definitely not "persistent contrails," no matter how much you or anyone else tries to convince us of the contrary.

Again, I asked you to disprove the science, but as of yet you have not, and neither has any source anyone has posted