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An Attempt to Debunk Chemtrails For Good

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posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 12:04 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


Erasure....would you do me the favor of looking at a website called "FlightAware'?

Since you didn't say where you live (I am assuming it's in the US) it may help you understand why you see so many contrails over your house.

This website will show you every flight plan, within the contiguous United States. You can also track flights, in progress....hope you like it1




posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Erasurehead

On some days I wake up in the morning and there are chemtrails all over the place. While I am looking at the chemtrails other commercial planes are flying over head at all different altitudes and not creating trails. So explain that to me how are some planes making trails and other are not.


Because the temperature and humidity of the atmosphere varies according to altitude. It also varies from day to day and sometime pockets of warmer air, for example, means that contrails are not continuous. Winds may also affect persistence and can make trails sometimes appear more ragged.

Temperature and humidity determine whether any contrail forms at all, and if so how long it lasts. In some cases contrail may last all day and merge with natural high level clouds. This is very basis meteorology. Shame it's not taught at school really as if it were the chemtrail hoax might never have caught on.

cimss.ssec.wisc.edu...

www.wrh.noaa.gov...

asd-www.larc.nasa.gov...



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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reply to post by Essan
 


Essan,

Maybe you're right. I don't know. Ever since I was a kid I have always had the habit of observing the skies. I do remember seeing contrails made by planes when I was a kid but they always dissipated even before the plane was out of site. I do not remember ever seeing a contrail remain long after the plane is out of site and expand into a cloud cover.

I don't know if you have ever heard of Scott Stevens or read his articles on chemtrails. Take a look. It is interesting. Scott was a TV weatherman that quit his job to pursue his theory on weather manipulation.

weatherwars.info...


[edit on 6-8-2008 by Erasurehead]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 04:23 PM
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Oh, I know Mr Stevens very well


He may well be an ex TV weather presenter, but I'd say all his ex viewers know more about the weather than he does.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 04:50 PM
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reply to post by Erasurehead
 


Maybe the below link will help to show you the atmospheric conditions

Its a skew-T diagram, created from data from a weather balloon. Not sure where you were from, so I just posted the US website. All data is real time, and updated everytime a new radiosonde is sent up (radiosonde- instrument we use to record data)

www.rap.ucar.edu...



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 05:01 PM
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reply to post by Clearskies
 

LOL -- those aren't "persistent contrails," that's for sure! I don't care what anyone says, contrails (which are mostly water vapor), do NOT have the capability to linger for hours, spread out and completely obliterate a cloudless blue sky with chemcrud in a couple of hours.

Any attempt to "debunk chemtrails for good" is guaranteed to be a miserable failure.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Clearskies
 

LOL -- those aren't "persistent contrails," that's for sure! I don't care what anyone says, contrails (which are mostly water vapor), do NOT have the capability to linger for hours, spread out and completely obliterate a cloudless blue sky with chemcrud in a couple of hours.


And I suppose when you breathe in cold weather, its barium coming out your mouth, not your warm breath


Its almost the exact same process, just there's lower vapour pressure at the height at which contrails are formed. Prove to me why contrails cant expand (you obviously never read the OP) and I may listen, instead of just saying they exist with nothing to back it up



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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Our local Board of Supervisors have been discussing an interesting subject, the fact that high levels of aluminum, among other metals, have been found in samples taken in various places in our north state, with the implication of jet contrails (chemtrails) being the culprit.

This article comes from our local newspaper, not some tabloid. I thought it odd to see this in local, mainstream news.

www.redding.com...



www.bbsradio.com...



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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reply to post by Skipper1975
 


This has been done several times before. All official lab reports have stated that there is no way to prove that the material collected has come from contrails. Its all biased based on the opinion of the person collecting the samples. Will check those ones out anyway



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 05:36 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Clearskies
 

LOL -- those aren't "persistent contrails," that's for sure! I don't care what anyone says, contrails (which are mostly water vapor), do NOT have the capability to linger for hours, spread out and completely obliterate a cloudless blue sky with chemcrud in a couple of hours.


And I suppose when you breathe in cold weather, its barium coming out your mouth, not your warm breath.

Its almost the exact same process

Except my breath doesn't linger for hours, nor does it slowly spread out and obliterate bright blue skies.

And neither do contrails or we'd never see a sunny day again.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece

Except my breath doesn't linger for hours, nor does it slowly spread out and obliterate bright blue skies.


Exactly why a low vapour pressure is needed, again like I explained in the OP. Without the low vapour pressure (and temperature) you will never have anything persisting. The higher you go the lower the vapour pressure, so in between 20,000 and 30,000ft, the conditions wont be anything like those experienced on the ground



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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Double Post

[edit on 6/8/2008 by OzWeatherman]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Clearskies
 

LOL -- those aren't "persistent contrails," that's for sure! I don't care what anyone says, contrails (which are mostly water vapor), do NOT have the capability to linger for hours, spread out and completely obliterate a cloudless blue sky with chemcrud in a couple of hours.

Any attempt to "debunk chemtrails for good" is guaranteed to be a miserable failure.


clouds are mostly water vapour i believe and they last hours..


@ oz weatherman

ill conceed your point for now... every stupid site i find that states a position contrary to yours are all abit... weird in my humble opinion.

ill dig abit further today and see if i can find anything id consider credible.

in the words of arny swartz "ILL BE BACK !"



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:18 PM
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First, I don't see chemtrail as a scientific term, it's more of a cultural meme, which refers to atmospheric spraying for whatever purpose the sprayers are intending. It refers to planes laying down thick contrails with a defined purpose, instead of normal contrails produced by their engines.

With that in mind, I will give my own personal witness account.

Up untill this year, a couple of months ago, I didn't give much creedence to the chemtrail meme. It wasn't part of my reality, I had not seen anything to prove it. However I had been noticing a haze on the horizon that was not there in previous years.

I live on an island, in the atlantic ocean. We have an international airport, with a 2700m long runway. The air traffic here is pretty well defined. We have a handfull of local small planes. A couple of regional island hoppers. A regular influx of mid range twin engine jets, mostly boeings and airbus. A few fokker's. The odd Embrear. They come in, drop tourists, pick tourists up, go away. Ocasionally we have military planes, but these are rare. There's a fair bit of traffic, hundreds of flights a week, but no need for holding patterns. I live near the flight path most used for landings. Other than this local traffic we only see big jets, widebodies flying overhead at around 30 000ft going to south america, and ocasionally aircraft going near the horizon down to the canary islands. As you can see, it's all identifiable, and having been interested in planes most of my life I can usually visually make out what I'm seeing.

But this one day it was different. We had two smaller twinjets out over the ocean. They were pretty far out, around 30-50kms. They were between 3000 and 6000ft high, closer to 3000 I think. They were white with blue tails, but too far out for my crappy binoculars to identify. And they were laying down a grid pattern of trails in the late afternoon. I watched them do this for around an hour, then they left. Overnight the trails widened out into thick cloud cover. And it rained the other day, lightly. There was a white particulate in the rain. Almost like ash. A few phonecalls to friends who work at the airport confirmed that two planes were indeed in one of the holding pattern areas asigned the airport (which is never used). They didn't land. They came from somewhere else, laid down their trails and left.

So you guys can try to debunk chemtrails all you want. I know they are indeed real.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
reply to post by Clearskies
 

LOL -- those aren't "persistent contrails," that's for sure! I don't care what anyone says, contrails (which are mostly water vapor), do NOT have the capability to linger for hours, spread out and completely obliterate a cloudless blue sky with chemcrud in a couple of hours.

Any attempt to "debunk chemtrails for good" is guaranteed to be a miserable failure.


GoldenFleece,

I thank you for the post. I just can't dismiss chemtrails. Another thing that I failed to mention in my last post is that on some mornings I have seen planes side by side as if in formation maybe 100yds or so between them. Now I know commercial fights dont fly that close together. I suppose it they could be military but I never see any markings on the planes and they are all one color. Usually white, once it a while I have seen all red and orange.

I don't think this is any sinister plot to harm or control people. I actually think it is being done to protect people from something harmful. Maybe excess radation because of the depletion of the ozone layer or it could be done to control weather. Not sure but I am just tired of the government not telling us WTF is going on.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:28 PM
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silver iodide is a silver salt that helps in artificial cloud seeding. Its been happening for quite sometime now. Those are your chemtrails and yes seeding clouds is weather modification.



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by OzWeatherman
 

There's a bit too much fervor in your immediate responses and the whole premise to "attempt to debunk chemtrails for good." What do you care if people believe in chemtrails or not? The fact is, evidence that proves the existence of chemtrails is now overwhelming. It's shown up in U.S. patents and legislation. Chemtrails have also been verified by a variety of scientists, government whistleblowers, airline managers and mechanics:

www.holmestead.ca...

members.aol.com...

educate-yourself.org...


So feel free to carry on your crusade. Maybe you don't see the chemtrails in Australia like we do in the States (probably not, since they're all over New Zealand too: www.mysteriousnewzealand.co.nz...)

In any case, chemtrails are very real, and they're definitely not "persistent contrails," no matter how much you or anyone else tries to convince us otherwise.

[edit] BTW, this wouldn't apply to you, would it?

www.holmestead.ca...



[edit on 6-8-2008 by GoldenFleece]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:38 PM
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Originally posted by projectvxn
silver iodide is a silver salt that helps in artificial cloud seeding. Its been happening for quite sometime now. Those are your chemtrails and yes seeding clouds is weather modification.


Yes, but cloud seeding occurs at far lower and warmer layers than contrails occur. It is also in such a small quantity when dispersed amongst cloud, it is practically invisble.

And before anyone complains that silver iodide is poison, here's an MSDS

msds.chem.ox.ac.uk...



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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Perhaps you could show these Chemtrail believers random pictures and ask them to point out the chemtrails?

It would be easier to prove them wrong than to prove yourself right, wouldn't it? I'd say the biggest amount of info has already been given, so it's up to them to do something with it.

*What do you think a chemtrail is?*
*What do you think a chemtrail looks like?*
*Do you think this picture has a chemtrail in it?*

Only thing is you'd have to have undeniable proof that it's actually a contrail rather than a chemtrail.

And I think that other person is right, trying to debunk chemtrails here is sort of impossible, because there's always someone that's thick-headed on the chemtrail side. (Same can be said for almost any subject and any side)

Though your attempt to do so is appreciated


[edit on 6/8/08 by -0mega-]



posted on Aug, 6 2008 @ 06:52 PM
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Originally posted by GoldenFleece
" What do you care if people believe in chemtrails or not?


I said at the start of the thread that this was mainly for the people who are 50/50 on the chemtrail theory, to give them another side of the argument. I care that sometimes, people are scaremongered into believing theories which are bias, and not plausible or factual.



The fact is, evidence that proves the existence of chemtrails is now overwhelming.


What evidence? I still see nothing to disprove the meteorological science and chemistry of it all



It's shown up in U.S. patents and legislation and it's also been verified by a variety of scientists, government whistleblowers, airline managers and mechanics


And for every scientist, aircraft mechanic/pilot that says its true (and their credentials are not always verified) another 100 say its not ture or even possible. Just to add, I have seen those sites before too




So feel free to carry on your crusade. Maybe you don't see the chemtrails in Australia like we do in the States (probably not, since they're all over New Zealand too


Thankyou I will continue to educate. We see less in Australia, due to lack of air traffic. The pro chemtrail sites say that most sightings occur in the USA and West Europe, strangely where most of the worlds air traffic is too.



Chemtrails are very real, and they're definitely not "persistent contrails," no matter how much you or anyone else tries to convince us of the contrary.


Again, I asked you to disprove the science, but as of yet you have not, and neither has any source anyone has posted






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