Beheading victim was being eatin on bus!

Working in the ER one night we had a black male about 6' 200# come in stoked on pcp. He also had self inflicted stab wounds. Three security officers and myself all had a leg or an arm as the pt lay prone on a gurney. I witnessed this guy bring a 160# guy up off his feet with his right leg from a prone position.
That was scary.

Tragic and horrifying case. If it turns out that killer was indeed a respectable working person who has never been involved in any extreme behaviour or had had a history of mental illness, then the cause of this nightmare are drugs or an extraordinary psychotic collapse.

Most people do not develop psychosis at the age of forty without a little external help and then it often an internal crisis. Drugs may do it through heavy and long term use but I surmise that on this occasion the killer falls in the realm of spree killer.

Spree killers either have an unreasonable grudge or have been provoked. A recent case in point is the Palestinian bulldozer driver in Israel who run amok with his vehicle after having his life turned into hell by Israeli planning laws and restrictions on mixed marriages between Palestinians and Israelis.

I'm beginning to think this poor guy might have been dosed by others on that bus with some designer drug other than Extasy. Although I called this guy a crazy in my last post, If he had no idea what was happening in his mind, due to a drug dose he knew nothing about, it might just be he was halucinating that the poor guy next to him was a Thankgiving turkey!!!!

Zindo

edit for spelling!!!

[edit on 8/3/2008 by ZindoDoone]

Can someone explain to my why he is being charged with 2nd Degree Murder?!? I mean, wow, what would you have to do to get charged with 1st Degree, how much worse could it get?

I personally believe this guy is demon possessed, thats the only think I can think of.

reply to post by ZindoDoone


Maybe he even picked up some elses soda-pop by accident that had something in it?

Even a "love" drug might have a darkside to someone who didn't know what was happening to them.

reply to post by xstealth


They can't prove that it was pre-meditated. Better to get a conviction than take a risk.

EDIT to add: There was a serial killer that I went to school with who was spared the death penalty, despite having a bunch of bodies in his house for a year.


[edit on 8/3/0808 by jackinthebox]

Honestly, I expect to hear more and more of this. Society, as a whole, is spiraling into a form of self-inflicted insanity, and the farther it goes, the more individuals will snap along the way. I don't think there is much that the observer can really do about such specific events. We can only work towards trying to bring down the influences that are leading to this insanity. But I'm not holding out much hope.

Beyond that...not sure what to say. Is it sick? Sure. Could it be drug-related? Maybe. Is it surprising? No.

Originally posted by Sonya610
Ecstasy most certainly would not cause that! It has the opposite effect. Other drugs, who knows.

The guy obviously had a psychotic break of the most extreme variety. He could very well be a nice person when he isn't chopping heads off. I don't get the "hate", there are lots of sadistic people in the world, but it appears this killer was just completely nuts. He could have had a brain tumor or some other issue. Talking about torturing him as punishment does not seem appropriate.

Though the accounts from the other passengers are a bit disturbing. When it started they all began screaming, throwing up, and running away. No one even tried to intervene until later. It is kind of creepy to know one can be on a crowded bus and get slaughtered while everyone else runs away.

www.winnipegfreepress.com...

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Sonya610]

OMG Iknow.. drugs this, drugs that...What ever happened to people just being CRAZY??!

-ChriS

reply to post by BlasteR


Chris,
I agree, but so far in the investigation, this man has shown no predetermined behavior that explains the sudden actions. True, they might find bodies burried in his cellar yet, but it makes more sense that something foriegn introduced into this man caused it. Supposition??? Sure but thats all we have now!!!!

Zindo

I'm telling you if the guy ingested too much then he probably did think his victim was a thanksgiving turkey n/j.



The weird thing about pcp is that if you are hungry, you will attempt to eat or try to cook something. it just makes you REALLY want whatever you want.

Patients ingesting small amounts of phencyclidine present prominent body image distortions (enlarging limbs, detached head) on a background of sensory blockade described as a "numbness", depersonalization, "sheer nothingness" or "endless isolation". These patients feel inebriated, are usually disoriented, and sometimes have amnesia for the experience. Somatic sensation is dissociated: patients lose track of their bodies and are at risk of seriously injuring themselves because they do not perceive pain. Though visual, auditory, and tactile illusions and delusions (especially of being God, the devil, or an animal) are common, frank hallucinations are relatively uncommon when compared with those produced by '___'. Anxiety and, sometimes, outright hostility may be present. Disrobing in public is seen in a small percentage of patients. Perhaps the hallmark of PCP intoxication is the recurring delusion of superhuman strength and invulnerability resulting from the analgesic and dissociative properties of the drug. Intoxicated patients have been known to snap hancuffs and, unarmed, attack, large groups of people or police officers. This loss of fear has led patients to try to stop a train by standing in front of it, to grossly mutilate themselves and others, to climb into a polar bear's cave to take a picture, and to jump from windows or cliffs. The bizarre behavior is often violent, sometimes with gruesome mutilation of both the patient and his or her victim. One intoxicated abuser pulled out his front teeth with a pair of pliers. Another woman fried her baby in cooking oil. There are many reported assaults of friends and strangers, both with and without weapons. Many of these violent acts are committed by drug users who were previously totally nonviolent individuals.

On a side note there's been many reports of people offering others PCP, having them smoke what they think is a regular amount when it's actually near an anesthetic dose, and then rob them or do embarrassing things to them. So I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a slipped dose either. And a question to ask, why all of a sudden do Lee become his victims friend and change seats to sit next to him on the bus?

PCP, in small doses can feel somewhat just like very strong marijuana, but in larger doses (above 5mg) it becomes a uniquely PCP experience. In very large doses (above 20mg – although this varies by person) it can be a fatal experience, and an overdose of PCP can lead to some very unpleasant psychological and physiological effects, including prolonged schizophrenia-like psychosis, coma and death.

In no way am I excusing this don't get me wrong! I'm just throwing out the possibility and the truth is pcp IS beginning to plague Canada on mass scale.



[edit on 3-8-2008 by Techsnow]

I wonder if this has something to do with a similar case in Brazil. A guy there calmly led police to where he hacked up his girlfriend and put her in a briefcase (to throw in the river). After his confession -- he claims he doesn't know what everyone is talking about and he is innocent.

Reminds me of that "devil's drug" or something -- it turns people into suggestible drones for about a day or two, and they are liable to do anything they are told to do. Either someone is putting this in drugs to perhaps, scare people off them, or someone is testing this drug out.

Maybe PCP -- but I've never heard of reactions like this before. This might be the beginning of some really crazy stuff. I think we need to do some very serious blood tests on people who freak out and kill. Remember last year when we had so many huge massacres in the press? We really have to be worried if someone is testing a drug that can turn a normal person into a psychotic monster. It definitely could be used to mess up society to create civil unrest.

Instead of rushing to condemn these vicious acts -- we really need to understand them. Normal people don't do this, and the culprits aren't even trying to hide their actions or get away.

>> VitriolAndAngst

The theory that other "evil drug using passengers" drugged him has ONE big flaw. The guy had a BIG KNIFE. The only guy on the bus with weapons just happens to get drugged and goes nuts? Nahhhh. Too unlikely.

Plus he apparently had gone awol a couple of days earlier, not calling his boss which was very unusual for him.

I do wonder if it is partly an Asian thing; they tend to be very stoic. Perhaps if they were not quite so stoic others would notice odd behavior before something happens. Years ago I worked at an electronics company with a very sweet, quiet Asian guy on the assembly line. He was the nicest guy, truly, very shy. One day he snapped and hit his boss across the back with a 2x4. Not a word in anger, he just whaled on the guy. Suppressed anger.

I would go with somebody was possessing him, in a sense spiritually raping the guy, maybe impacting the way he thinks, and if he is suseptible to some type of psyhchodelic, or hypnotic suggestion then it would be that much easier to influence him through empathy. If his awareness was more keen maybe he is just triggering the more animalistic side of himself.

By the way spirits occupy the same space we do, so it doesn't surprise me, perhaps he ran into a cannibal.

Originally posted by menguardBy the way spirits occupy the same space we do, so it doesn't surprise me, perhaps he ran into a cannibal.

Possession? Errrm. Yeah. Why is it demons mostly posess men? Are they sexist? What about equal opportunity in the underworld? Sure there are a few crazy women killers but not NEARLY as many. That should be a new topic for demonologists. Demonic chauvanism.

Sheesh I would imagine 200 years ago the same people that claim "demons" are possessing murders probably thought demons possessed epileptics too.

reply to post by Sonya610


Well DUH!!! doesn't everybody carry a Huge knife and scizzors on bus trips????? Missed that one completely!!!. Oh well, maybe premeditated murder is the true charge he should have over his head. I was trying to give the loony the beneft of the doubt..but, guess my first sense of fair play is missguided!




Zindo

Originally posted by Psychopump
What you all should know is that "ecstasy" is not a single chemical compound. It is a group term for pills containing MDMA, MDA or MDEA.
The effect of these chemicals is known as "empathic" - a feeling of love, unity and compassion.

However, many pills are sold as ecstasy that either contain none of the aforementioned chemicals or contain other chemicals in combination with the aforementioned.

It could well be that people taking ecstasy pills are in fact ingesting very different drugs, like PCP without knowing it.

This seems quite likely in this case, as the effects of PCP can be very xenophobic and aggressive. I wonder if there will be any disclosure of the toxins found in his blood (which they MUST have tested)...

Excellent post!

However, what if what the others were taking was ecstacy, and the attacker moved back there because he was aggressive towards drug users. Given the empathic nature of ecstacy, that must have just added exponentially to the horrific nature of what was witnessed.

Originally posted by xstealth
Can someone explain to my why he is being charged with 2nd Degree Murder?!? I mean, wow, what would you have to do to get charged with 1st Degree, how much worse could it get?

He was charged with 2nd degree murder because the murder was not "premeditated"...it just goes to show you how weak and ineffective our Canadian justice system is.

[edit on 3-8-2008 by matth]

reply to post by Sonya610


Ever wonder why serial killers are almost always nerdy white guys? Rarely a woman or a black man. (Though the killer I knew was in fact black.)

And to add to the "profiling," it really does seem to me that Asian people have a tendency to get really ticked off easily and react with extreme violence in many cases.

Originally posted by jackintheboxEver wonder why serial killers are almost always nerdy white guys? Rarely a woman or a black man. (Though the killer I knew was in fact black.)

Serial killing is actually one of the very very few crimes where whites are EQUALLY represented based on population. Most serial killers are white because 60% of the population is white, actually I believe blacks are slightly more likely to become serial killers, except of course since there are 5 times as many white we turn out 5 times the number of serial killers.

Plus intelligence often plays a role, stupid killers have a harder time going serial. As far as women being serial killers, that is extremely rare. Elizabeth Batheroy is about the only one I can think of that killed for pleasure (without a crazy boyfriend encouraging the situation).

[edit on 3-8-2008 by Sonya610]

reply to post by Sonya610


Aside from the guy I knew in school, I have never heard of a black serial killer, except maybe that guy down in Georgia. Mass murderers maybe, like street criminals with a high body count against rivals or something, but not the stereotypical serial killers.