Russian combat aircraft possibly returning to Cuba to counter missile shields

Originally posted by neformore
reply to post by mrmonsoon

 

Thats not the point.

No one in their right mind is going to launch 12/15 nukes at once. Theres no way back from that at all. A 12/15 missile salvo would be interpreted as an all out attack, both sides would launch on warning. Game over.

But someone taking a slight risk might launch one, or two, especially if they think they can get away with it by intercepting an equally limited reprisal.

You see, thats where the fallacy of this missile sheild comes into play. Its NOT just a defensive system. Its a strategic weapon in its own right, because it opens up an area of limited theatre engagements that really wasn't there before.

Cat n Mouse with nukes. Think about it.

My point is correct.

Also, do you REALLY think the US would just "TAKE" one or two ICBM's, without a similar or larger strike in return.

If you do, you are sadly mistaken.

1) I doubt that most people complaining about this have any clue about how these missile systems work.

2) This is a defensive system. Why does it matter who we're protecting ourselves from? It's not like putting strategic bombers or offensive missile systems right next to Moscow. And if it really is to defend against Russia (and it might not be), then so what? You're really complaining that we're placing a defensive system that can protect us against a nation that threatened to destroy our entire nation with nuclear missiles?

Christ.

Heh, isn't it cute watching Russia acting like they have testicles again?

Seriously, if Cuba was to allow this they can kiss any chance of them ever having trade sanctions with America lifted in any way shape or form. Cuba's economy went to hell the last time the Soviets tried to out spend our military and crumbled from within... if Raul is so dumb he doesn't believe history would repeat itself this round, then he won't be in charge there for long before the coup overthrows him.

To the India dude, the reason outdated Russian equipment bested outdated American equipment in the little squabble over a Led Zepplin song title was because Pakistanis, not Americans, were operating the outdated American equipment. Very significant difference that should never be underestimated.

Originally posted by Johnmike
1) I doubt that most people complaining about this have any clue about how these missile systems work.

2) This is a defensive system. Why does it matter who we're protecting ourselves from? It's not like putting strategic bombers or offensive missile systems right next to Moscow. And if it really is to defend against Russia (and it might not be), then so what? You're really complaining that we're placing a defensive system that can protect us against a nation that threatened to destroy our entire nation with nuclear missiles?

Christ.

I agree with you!

And neither Poland or the Czech republic are either Russians backyard or their playground anymore. Both are Sovereign countries and part of the EU. If the EU and those two countries agree with the US on a Missie shield on their soil Russia has to keep it's mouth shut. And a statement like we will aim missiles at Europe is just unacceptable. Well than France should aim their missiles at Russia .

[edit on 21-7-2008 by HEroX]

reply to post by manson_322


You are a bad example for a human being.

Just like i said in other post we have another Cuba missile crisis coming and this time it was Bush who started the whole chess game.

We arent talking fighter either......we are talking about nuclear bombers.

Both the supersonic Tu-160, a nuclear bomber known as ``White Swan,'' and the strategic bomber Tu-95.

Originally posted by alienstar
Just like i said in other post we have another Cuba missile crisis coming and this time it was Bush who started the whole chess game.

Bush may have sealed the deal, but aside from Nixon who signed the treaty and Jimmy Carter who suffered from a total lack of scrotum, we haven't ever had a president who was comfortable or in agreement with the ABM treaty. Reagan started the missile defense program and Clinton was supportive of it in every way except for funding. Bush could be said to be the player who "castled" in this chess game, but his predecessors cleared out a pawn, knight, and bishop for him to do so.

reply to post by burdman30ott6


Agree...so what is America going to do about this one???Its just the exact same..i hope people don't think these bomber aren't going to be nuclear cause they are.......So its the exact samething only they have to fly in other then launch them.They but these bombers in there its going to be another 1962.

We're currently expanding NATO up to Russia's borders, surrounding them with military bases and proxy governments, and setting up an ABM system just outside their borders...

Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of Russian history should understand why this is making them nervous, they see it as a prelude to an invasion.

After all, it's basically only Russia and China who represent any realistic threat to US plans for global hegemony - the EU is pretty solidly in our pocket whatever their population thinks of us.

Anyone who expects Russia not to respond in some way is obviously on far better drugs than I can afford

reply to post by xmotex


People will just say oh its Russia flexing their muscle again.Bull#$it...I don't see any need to put this stupid missile shield in countries that don't have any enemies.No rogue country is going to attack Poland or the Republic.Bush is so stupid...but he deserves his outcome.Here we are from the late 80's..driving away from the cold war..and he is just getting us in another one.Don't people realize how close to nuclear war we were back in 1962!!!!!

BTW bro no anger directed towards you.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by alienstar]

It's the last time I'll say this. The russians KNOW that the missile shield is a threat to their nuclear second strike capability potential.

The US has been braging since 2002 that they can wage total war in any part of the world and win. Win a nuclear war even.

We've seen russian estimates that between 2012 and 2015 the US will have total supremacy and that the russian nuclear arsenal could be wipe out largely, without being to carry out an important second strike.

And those who say that those bases are harmless, that's BS. They may be harmless now. But what happens when the technology is even better in the future? Or that more batteries are installed? Or that the launchers can launch dozens of anti-ballistic missiles every 10 seconds? Also. The first american line of defense would be in Europe, then you add the missile shield in the US and you can pretty much reduce the russian second strike capability to null or ``acceptable losses``...

What Should Russia Do To Counter US Missile Defense In Europe
A very interesting article...



[edit on 21-7-2008 by Vitchilo]

reply to post by alienstar


No offense taken, I understand your frustration.

The Cold War was a great source of taxpayer dollars for our (very influential) defense industrial complex.

The ill-defined War on Terror has so far failed to scare the American taxpayer into forking over enough money to keep them fat and happy (they never really recovered from or forgave the Bush Sr./Clinton defense cuts, which is why they put up millions to put the neocons in power), and so a new (or recycled in this case) boogeyman is needed: one that really could drop nukes on our cities and destroy our civilization.

The Russians serve this purpose nicely, and so we're actively attempting to get them to play along with our new Cold War.

They seem to be taking the bait - not that they have much choice at this point.

[edit on 7/21/08 by xmotex]

reply to post by Vitchilo


You got a point...and i'm sure they see it that way.Here they are a country almost at economic ruins...military hardware breaking down.bmew rusting or falling apart and having to live in the us shadow of over 40 year with a big lost to their ego that they lost the cold war.Now they see us falling...they see Bush advancing....moving almost the sameway the Russian did back then.I would see this as a threat as well.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by alienstar]

Ungh, while we've been trying to warn the US against their decision to place missile sites along other countries borders, they've just carried on doing it.

What did they expect to happen? Did they expect Russia to just say "OK, you place missile sites along our border, we won't be suspicious."?

These missile sites deliver a clear message. We want to be able to hit you, without you being able to retaliate.

Remember me asking what the US would think if another country encroached near the US border? Well... I guess we'll know how the US will react now. I guarantee you they won't be happy with the Russians on their doorstep either.

When will politicians realize just how hair brained their ideas are.

Way to provoke another possible cold war.

I don't think there is many Americans how like the idea of this missile shield.In fact its creating more harm then good.BTW can i say this??Bush is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo S T U P I D.

I guess the big question is would Cuba allow them if they do place bomber there...and go along with this?Its up to Cuba..they can't just put them there.Its either Cuba losing out on billions of could be trade and more economic support for the country...or place these bombers there and lose.

Let's say the Russian bomb Guantanamo...would anyone feel pissed? Or would you feel as if we had it coming? If I was an prisoner of war there...ahem, I mean, an "enemy combatant", I would welcome death from above...not the band but bombs.

reply to post by pluckynoonez


Give us fair warning to pull our military and citizens out of there and they can leave the place a smoldering hole in the ground for all I care. It would certainly answer the question of what we're going to do with the detainees there.

Originally posted by absente
reply to post by mattguy404

 

why don't they - even if Raul Castro is somehow a less pain in the *** for the US - the regime is still the same and relations to Russia are even better than 40 years ago.

Don't forget Cuba's dept to Russia (20-25 Billion USD). It sound like Russia has good cards to use Cuba (again) for their geopolitical goals.

As for the headline - it is really not very surprising, I even expected them to "go missile" and not just deploying some bombers.

Time will tell

I thought it was the United States who is playing its geopolitical goals through being a warmonger!

I don´t see Russia starting wars all over the world like the US under Bush.