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Russian combat aircraft possibly returning to Cuba to counter missile shields

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posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 08:25 PM
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reply to post by manson_322
 

quote"


good... good...

the russians should deploy subs,nukes and bombers in Cuba.

would give them excellent first strike capability to cripple the genocidal imperialist US empire



SORRY bud...wrong country...flip Russia with USA..ie..genocidal imperialist Russia and you will have historical footing.

Read:Statistics Of Russian Democide
Estimates, Calculations, And Sources * www.hawaii.edu...

Read:Location (Regime).....USA IS NOT ON THE LIST!!!
Deaths
Era

Soviet Union (Communists) 61,900,000
1917-1990
China (Communists) 35,200,000
1949-present
Germany (Nazi Third Reich) 20,900,000
1933-1945
China (Kuomintang) 10,400,000
1928-1949
Japan (Imperial-Fascist) 6,000,000
1936-1945
China (Communist Guerrillas) 3,500,000
1923-1948
Cambodia (Communists) 2,000,000
1975-1979
Turkey ("Young Turks") 1,900,000
1909-1917
Vietnam (Communists) 1,700,000
1945-present
North Korea (Communists) 1,700,000
1948-present
Poland (Communists) 1,600,000
1945-1948
Pakistan (Yahya Khan) 1,500,000
1971
Mexico (Porfiriato) 1,400,000
1900-1920
Yugoslavia (Communists) 1,100,000
1944-1990
Russia (Czarist) 1,100,000
1900-1917
Turkey (Mustafa Kemal "Ataturk") 900,000
1918-1923
United Kingdom (Constitutional) 800,000
1900-present
Portugal (Fascist) 700,000
1926-1975
Croatia (Fascists) 700,000
1941-1945
Indonesia (Suharto) 600,000
1965-present



Read: The Greatest Genocide in History (part II): India, China and Femicide..leftwrite.wordpress.com...

READ:www.platial.com...




posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:02 PM
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People seem to have memory loss when it comes to remembering what countries are in NATO.

Here's a geography lesson for you, boys and girls: Estonia, Latvia and Norway have two things in common. One is that they are all in NATO. Two is that they all border Russia.

Georgia and Ukraine will become NATO members in the future. Guess what? They border Russia as well.

Did you know we have forces in Japan? Did you know Japan and Russia are still technically at war, although no fighting is occurring? Did you know we have forces in South Korea? Did you know Turkey is in NATO?

Do you people know how close Japan, Turkey and South Korea are to Russia, or do you need help with that as well?

How about the forces in the Middle East?

Need I go on?

You know all of that - or maybe you don't, which speaks to your ignorance - and you still get your panties in a wad over Russia possibly stationing combat aircraft in a country that, last time I checked, doesn't belong to us? We have no right to say what is and is not stationed there.

I know at least a few of you support the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, and possibly even Iran, and you can't seem to comprehend why the people of these countries hate us and are angry. But then when another country moves in on your home, then suddenly there's a problem.

Drop the ignorance and hypocrisy. It gets real old.

[edit on 7/21/08 by NovusOrdoMundi]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:35 PM
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reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi
 


If we stay on topic, missile shields, it is simple.

Let Russia put to bases, just like the US, in Cuba

"HOWEVER" Let them be limited to 10 missiles per base, like the US and have them fire 2 per missile.

That puts them even with what we have.

That sure sounds fair to me.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 


Oh its perfectly on topic. Simply because you cannot deny the fact that NATO has encircled Russia does not make it off topic.

You have been voicing your opinion that this missile shield does not justify Russian aircraft in Cuba, so I posted other FACTS that DO justify Russian aircraft in Cuba.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 09:45 PM
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reply to post by mrmonsoon
 


I agree,

If we can argue so hard 'for' our missiles in eastern europe,

we must allow Russia the same options in Cuba...

In saying that though,

Why was it ok for us to battle the russians Via proxy in Afghanistan, yet anyone else doing it in Iraq is a terrorist sponsor?

Last I remember, russians didnt place aircrat carriers, destroyers and subs of our shores during theri war in Afghan with the notion '' America is supplying the afghan rebels with arms and training ''

Boy oh Boy how righteous the west believes it is!



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by NovusOrdoMundi
 


We have American troops in former Russia doing military training.I don't think people know this.

www.wxix.com...



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:43 PM
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I happen to agree with the suggestion that we allow Russia to put their own defense shield up in Cuba with the same numbers as our base's in Eastern Europe. Ten missiles, all kinetic kill vehicles, that should be fair. This way neither shield would impede the other from a large nuclear strike, the US can defend against rogue nations, and Russia can be even with the US.

Strategic bombers on the other hand is something completely different. But what will really be problematic is if they put nukes in Cuba again. If that happens then all the agreements we agreed on in the last Cuban Missile Crisis go out the window, including our agreement not to invade Cuba.



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 10:52 PM
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reply to post by cyberdude78
 


I can tell you right now no president will allow them to park bombers with nuclear missiles off Cuba.Your right...its no different then aiming nukes 30 miles away.I wonder if Cuba would allow them to do this.BTW didnt they already put in new launch codes for new destinations in Europe?And now they have to do this also?Whatever.........

[edit on 21-7-2008 by alienstar]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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I think nuke silos would be termed "offensive weapons" (as Kennedy put it) and that would definitely lead to a hairy situation.

The latest thing coming out of all of this is that Russia could use Cuba simply as a refueling stopover. However, the TU 160s for instance have a ferry range of about 17,000Km (roughly 10,000 miles) without refueling - they'd need a pretty good excuse to stop right over in Cuba, with all of the other fueling opportunities available.

I'm not an expert on the whole thing, but that's just what comes to mind. The bombers can easily reach the US coast and fly back in one go - bringing Cuba into the equitation I think is being a little cheeky.

Still... Interesting concept.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by mattguy404]



posted on Jul, 21 2008 @ 11:25 PM
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Rulers will do as rulers always do , and the common man will do as he always does & pick a side .
Until the common man , wherever he may live , choses to lead his government rather then be lead by this government we are doomed to repeat our past .



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:43 AM
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And now the sands of time have been flipped for one more final sifting of the sand. My stomach informs me that this is the event that is the firestarter for the polarization of the next WW. Cold or hot, this time, is the only question.

Bay of pigs #2, with a twist, yes.

This time we won't object to them occupying cuba with equipment but a fatal mistake it will be. We will have far too much confidence in a "new" technology that will not work in a live exercise and for a stupid reason. We never thought they would have it too, or a countermeasure. Our pants will be down.

You see an alliance between Russia, China, *Brazil*, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Egypt, Syria, Pakistan, Indonesia, North Korea (limited as it may be) and ultimately the remaining half of the E.U. in its final form after the coming, half bloody, "cold civil war" (just wait for it) and yes Mexico finally. Who's going to have the better hand this time? I believe it will be the other side with an EMBARGO / SANCTIONS package of their own. Israel will be in the back of the room screaming "What about me guys?!" and falling on deaf ears. Someone else will have at them and there will be no rescue.

Until we withdraw from 100% of our international bases at that time, these countries will be enemies. Same formula of ultimatum we gave saddam / iran except it will be for withdrawal from international bases. UN Members will be removed and a world polar body to REALLY counter nato forms using the gas dollars over the past few years. I doubt it will go full scale nuclear but a limited exchange is almost a must to show intent and seriousness while giving fair warning (as some might see it).

Sounds ridiculous now, but wait just a few years as I've jumped ahead a couple moves maybe and it might not seem apparent now.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 02:57 AM
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reply to post by whiteraven
 


hawai edu , is based on the black book of communism , which is based on propaganda that orginated from Hearst Press in 30's in favour of nazi germany


and clearly , the source is a american source which is propaganda and does not document USA genocides in history ,


, your nation wiped out millions of native american indians and are resp for millions of deaths across latin america and the third world
and wasn't USA built on genocide of 15-45 million native indian people ....
20-40 million black slaves dead
hyprocrite
www.intellnet.org...

YOU MURDERED A 2 MILLION PEOPLE IN IRAQ FOR OIL
CREATED ISLAMIC TERROR THAT HAS LED TO DEATHS OF MILLIONS

IMPOVERISHED MILLIONS THROUGH EXPOLITATION GENOCIDE AND STARVATION

[B]fact is that most americans are arrogant , and use propanganda to hide their war crimes against humanity[/B]

have you ever seen journalist John Pilger 's documentary "War on democracy , do see it and , you wil realise how USA has murdered millions in latin America and across the world
the entire documentary

www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...


compare to USSr , where Stalin was responsible for 7 million deaths as per KGB archives and trotsky for 12-18 million deaths

------------------



Read: The Greatest Genocide in History (part II): India, China and Femicide.

lol, now Abortion is being called Genocide by your sources if its in china and india ,

if i use your logic , then abortion is genocide , and USA has aborted more than 60 million fetuses ,
SO LIKE USA HAS MURDERED 60 MILLION BABIES IN 30 YEARS!!!!!!!!




[edit on 22-7-2008 by manson_322]



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 03:09 AM
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I love this clip... Dana Perino didn't even know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was...




posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by mattguy404
Dana Perino didn't even know what the Cuban Missile Crisis was...

That's nowhere in that video.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 03:23 AM
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reply to post by Johnmike
 


That's the short version. There's another one on YouTube where in an interview she talks about admitting to her husband that she didn't know what the CMC was.

It was an apt comparison the journalist pointed out, I think it's shown by how she quickly glossed over it, not knowing what it was.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by Shar
 

I agree. These leaders make us as humans seem dispicable. We are worthless scum as long as we continue fight stupid wars that don't even change anything except who's in charge. Nothing is worth fighting for except survival, and last I checked the only ones causing hardship for survival are the leaders. Maybe that's the last war to be fought, the leaders against the common. Politicians will burn us forever if we let them.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 12:20 PM
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Originally posted by whiteraven
reply to post by manson_322
 

quote"


good... good...

the russians should deploy subs,nukes and bombers in Cuba.

would give them excellent first strike capability to cripple the genocidal imperialist US empire



SORRY bud...wrong country...flip Russia with USA..ie..genocidal imperialist Russia and you will have historical footing.

Read:Statistics Of Russian Democide
Estimates, Calculations, And Sources * www.hawaii.edu...

Read:Location (Regime).....USA IS NOT ON THE LIST!!!
Deaths
Era

Soviet Union (Communists) 61,900,000
1917-1990
China (Communists) 35,200,000
1949-present
Germany (Nazi Third Reich) 20,900,000
1933-1945
China (Kuomintang) 10,400,000
1928-1949
Japan (Imperial-Fascist) 6,000,000
1936-1945
China (Communist Guerrillas) 3,500,000
1923-1948
Cambodia (Communists) 2,000,000
1975-1979
Turkey ("Young Turks") 1,900,000
1909-1917
Vietnam (Communists) 1,700,000
1945-present
North Korea (Communists) 1,700,000
1948-present
Poland (Communists) 1,600,000
1945-1948
Pakistan (Yahya Khan) 1,500,000
1971
Mexico (Porfiriato) 1,400,000
1900-1920
Yugoslavia (Communists) 1,100,000
1944-1990
Russia (Czarist) 1,100,000
1900-1917
Turkey (Mustafa Kemal "Ataturk") 900,000
1918-1923
United Kingdom (Constitutional) 800,000
1900-present
Portugal (Fascist) 700,000
1926-1975
Croatia (Fascists) 700,000
1941-1945
Indonesia (Suharto) 600,000
1965-present



Read: The Greatest Genocide in History (part II): India, China and Femicide..leftwrite.wordpress.com...

READ:www.platial.com...


This really is the height of ignorance - What number were killed in the forced starvation in India during the Raj ?

The greatest genocide ever perpetrated was that of the native American Indians - that's not a slur that's a fact bud.


But if your not happy with that how about the obliteration of women and children in Hiroshima and Nagasaki ? The deliberate targeting of civilians on such a massive, indiscriminate act is the greatest war crime ever perpetrated - this on top of the fire bombing and murder of hundreds and thousands of civilians - an abomination beyond any consideration. Watch the Fog of War.

When people point these things out to you they do not dismiss atrocities of the aggressors, Japans activities in China such as the Rape of Nanjing are also amongst the gravest - what you need to remember is that your country is just as capable as any other, more capable, and to think otherwise is fantasy.


All countries deceive their population with propaganda - its only a question of whether you believe it or not...believing your government is some benevolent do gooder who does not commit atrocities is the same as believing the Nazi propaganda against the Jews, Stalinist propaganda or any other propganda - the only way to do this is read independant accounts and work it out for yourself.

The truth is easily found but if you are believing what the governments or general population do - then you are blind.



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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Originally posted by Vitchilo
It's the last time I'll say this. The russians KNOW that the missile shield is a threat to their nuclear second strike capability potential.

[edit on 21-7-2008 by Vitchilo]




A "threat to their nuclear second strike capability potential".



If the russians had any brains to go with their cojones, and they were worried about this "threat to their nuclear second strike capability potential" - at all - wouldn't they just attack the missile defense system first?

It seems too many people like to play the ATS version of the game "Risk" here ...



posted on Jul, 22 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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If the russians had any brains to go with their cojones, and they were worried about this "threat to their nuclear second strike capability potential" - at all - wouldn't they just attack the missile defense system first?

What are you talking about? How can they do that if they are first striked? How can they do that pre-emptively without starting WW3?

Hint: They can't.

And they thought about that, this is why they now develop medium and short range nuclear missiles as it was prohibited in previous treaties. Medium and short range nuclear missiles are cheaper, faster to wipe the shield in Europe.

And you think about the missile shield as it is TODAY. Think in 10 years what the technology will be... also, NATO could hide nuclear missiles in those places to wipe out Moscow in a matter of minutes.

And the escalation continue:
US general warns Russia on nuclear bombers in Cuba

[edit on 22-7-2008 by Vitchilo]



posted on Jul, 23 2008 @ 03:34 AM
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Originally posted by Shar
What does all this fear mongering get them and us? Why do we like to cause fear in our people for? Personally, I am sick and tired of all this talk of war. I sick and tired of the wars going on overseas.

I’m tired of it. I’m tired of hearing how our governments is wanting to kill innocent people for no reason except to line their purses!!!!

Enough is Enough already. It’s time the leaders of the countries to stop acting like school yard bullies and grow up!!!!


It is worse than you think...

The Russians are going to start staging Blackjack and Bear Bombers out of Cuba.

The severity of this issue is not easily seen.

The reason is the planes are just a delivery truck for what they carry.

That still does not speak to the real issue.

People hear bomber and think it has to fly over the land it is going to bomb.

The problem is these planes "ONLY" carry cruise missiles now with a
a range possibly as far as 5,000 kilometers, or about 3,500 miles.

They could be flying around south of cuba, launch and still hit anywhere
in the US except the most northern states.

Also most people think, ahhh its a cruise missile and we can shoot it down.

The problem with that is during the war with Serbia they shot down an F-117
stealth fighter and reverse engineered the technology.

It is now part of their advanced cruise missiles that carry 200 Kilo-ton nukes.

So you have a Stealth Cruise Missile on a delivery truck somewhere near cuba,
and the Russians are upset about our missile shield, and are willing to
replay the Cuban Missile Crisis scenario to make their point.

The baseline for the cruise missile is the KH-55 from the 1980's.

en.wikipedia.org...

It has been upgrade since then, but we do not fully know for sure its abilities.

That upgraded critter is now officially known as the KH-102

www.globalsecurity.org...

The fact that is has Stealth abilities is now PUBLIC knowledge in the above article.

Hints at a newer and even better Stealth Cruise Missile the KH-555
are mentioned as well.

So when people laugh about the old planes, think of them as an old
truck delivering a high tech package.

This may be a second Cuban Missile crisis,
but the person in the Whitehouse is not JFK.

Like the 60's nothing may happen, or some religious zealots may
think it is time for revelations to take place.

Just another heads up here.

My bug out bag is packed, and my Evac locale to the west is prepped.

Good Luck to All !




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