Originally posted by Double Eights
Okay, for those of you whom don't support the troops, what do you suggest they do to garner your support? Quit?

If they quit, they will will be dishonerably discharged and put in prison. That right there will absolutely crush their futures. Good look trying to find a quality job with a Dishonerable Discharge on your record, and enjoy your stay in the State Pen.

If they all quit, who's gonna put them in prison? The local sheriff?

Yes, they should all quit and stop doing the bidding of the Zionist village idiot. It is only then should the American people support them.

Sometimes the truth is hidden or obfuscated - so people do not see it as it really is.

Sometimes the truth is clearly understood, but out of necessity or priority of other truths it is ignored. Like the war is a farce but I need to feed myself and family and I do not have any other skills or I am not confident that I can survive any other way.

Sometimes the truth does not matter (for a specific individual in a specific circumstance) - like I signed up to defend our country I did not expect to fight under false pretenses but if I leave now I may be killed.


I wish I could say I support the troops - but unfortunately I have not done anything to support them (like e-mails, gifts, phone calls) the only way that I can support them is to acknowledge that their situation is not as cut and dry as we all assume it is. I am guilty of assuming an easy decision for them as well - but not so I think. It is like expecting a person who has never been taught Math to invent Calculus. Without the fundamentals or the ability to see or freedom to actually decide, we can only support their freedom to choose what they do by acknowledging that they may beleive they have no choice.

From the same link:

However the hypocrisy of the US government must also be addressed. Depleted uranium munitions meet the definition of WMDs under US Federal Code in 2 out of 3 categories, and they violate US military law because the US is a signatory to the Geneva and Hague conventions. If the US government is so worried about Iran being a nuclear threat, then why did Henry Kissinger give Iran nuclear power plants, and President Gerald Ford give Iran plutonium?

And on September 17, 2005, in the UN General Assembly President Ahmadinejad of Iran eloquently brought the depleted uranium issue to the table:

"Ironically, those who have actually used nuclear weapons, continue to produce, stockpile and extensively test such weapons, have used depleted uranium bombs and bullets against tens and perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, Kuwaitis, and even their own soldiers and those of their allies, afflicting them with incurable diseases, blatantly violate their obligations under the NPT, have refrained from signing the CTBT and have armed the Zionist occupation regime with WMDs, are not only refusing to remedy their past deeds, but in clear breech of the NPT, are trying to prevent other countries from acquiring the technology to produce peaceful nuclear energy. All these problems emanate from the fact that justice and spirituality are missing in the way powerful governments conduct their affairs with other nations. "...

The consequences of depleted uranium global pollution is damage to the genome of the entire planet which is being degraded and destroyed slowly over time — for all living things. This is a demonic plan by the city of London and Wall Street banking establishments, and the new world order, the 'globalists' who want to depopulate the world by 2-4 billion people. They don't call London the world capital of terrorism for no reason.

Depopulation, through a continuous global covert nuclear war, has been waged against citizens, paid for by citizens through taxation, privatized, and secretly implemented by the global ruling elite. From 62 years of depleted uranium wars alone, global public health has been devastated by large increases in death rates and chronic disease, and decreasing birth rates, both evident in the vital statistics of many countries since 1945. This is a global trend....


This is what Henry Kissinger said about it in 1974 in the National Security Council:

Dr. Henry Kissinger proposed in his memorandum to the NSC that 'depopulation should be the highest priority of US foreign policy towards the third world.' He cited reasons of national security, and because the US economy will require large and increasing amounts of minerals from abroad, especially from less developed countries… wherever a lessening of population can increase the prospects for such stability, population policy becomes relevant to resources, supplies and to the economic interests of the US.

How could anyone support the armed gorrilla of such a crime syndicate who's occult Babylonia roots have made them think they are a completely different race and vastly superior to all of us serfs who must be depopulated enmass and returned to the feudal system? These men are criminally insane beyond any scope of words, and our soldiers are aware of this. The only heros there are the ones who have stopped supporting the war and speak out against it.


Edit to add: The very best way to support the troops is to get them out of there now!!!!

[edit on 11-7-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 11-7-2008 by mystiq]

[edit on 11/0708/08 by neformore]

again:

" Our soldiers are just being sent to Iraq and Afghanistan and given a death sentence as soon as they arrive. Our national guard, to protect our states from being overtaken by our own military, is being destroyed to make this global takeover easier. Black youth in the ghettoes are refusing to join the military. They are saying “it's more dangerous in Iraq now than in the ghetto… We are staying home.”

Major Doug Rokke told me that gang members and juvenile delinquents coming back from their army service in Iraq are taking military trucks from bases here like at Fort Lewis, and going out into towns around the military bases and robbing banks. Then they go back into the ghettos and kill the police… That's what they learned in Iraq.

As Henry Kissinger famously said after Vietnam:

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy".

I think in reality the US government has killed far more Americans, their own citizens, than they have killed in other countries. The CIA has cannibalized the US just like it has eaten through the economies and killed the people of many other countries. The CIA is bringing the drugs from Afghanistan and South America into our communities. It's a great way to fund elections and to make huge profits.

Over $850 billion a year in drug money in the US is the CIA cash-flow through the US economy. The US economy would collapse without it....

Here is a lawyer friend of mine, from the international law firm of Morrison and Foerster, who has filed a class action lawsuit against the Veterans Administration for Health Care for our very sick veterans… the medical disability rate is over 55% since 1991, when they started using depleted uranium weapons.

Our children are being turned into uranium meat as soon as they are sent to Iraq and Afghanistan. What about the poor people who live in those regions and have for thousands of years…....

We are facing a global mass extinction of 2-4 billion people, and a war against the genetic future of all species.

If the Bush Administration and the US Navy are really stupid enough to bomb Iran with their [nuclear] friend Israel, well then they deserve what they get if they knock over that beehive. Iran is not Iraq… Iraq was a 'cakewalk' compared to what a mess they will have with Iran.

I want the people of Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Yugoslavia, Afghanistan and the people of the world to know that I love and respect them. Americans are not bad people, I am not a bad person because I am American, it is our government that has hijacked and stolen our country and our soul from us.

But this nightmare they are creating is not over yet, and like Iraq, it will not turn out the way they think it is going to… Bush is not the only sociopath in power who likes to blow things up. Other countries may retaliate…"

This is an incredible nightmare since the early 90s depleted uranium has been used strigently to depopulate the earth in unbelievablylarge amounts. The queen of england and the Rockefeller's own most of the uranium in the world.

and

..."The babies may look normal on the outside, but the DNA is damaged both in the nucleus and in the mitochondria of the cell, as well as other damage we still don't understand. Over future generations, the genetic damage will be expressed in unpredictable ways, and gradually the genome will degrade and decline in vigor. source: US government data: Center for Disease Control (CDC)"

The consequences are beyond our wildest imagination. We must stop this nightmare now.




[edit on 11-7-2008 by mystiq]

Mod Edit. Ex tags added to this and the two preceding posts to properly clarify that the opinions noted are NOT those of the poster, but are from the site given in the first post

Mystiq - please see your U2U's


[edit on 11/0708/08 by neformore]

[edit on 11/0708/08 by neformore]

Originally posted by A curious cat
I don't believe in placing blame, we are responsible for our own choices, all of us. No one should be made to feel guilty for someone elses choices.

AGREED!

Originally posted by A curious catYou may not have called any one stupid but that is the impression you give. People that are doing the wrong thing (in our opinion) are doing what they believe to be right or even what they know to be wrong but for their own advantage, unless they are completely evil people then I believe there will be a reason for their actions that has it's roots in fear.

i have thought this issue over extensively after re-reading all the posts and then doing a bit of self reflection.

i never wanted to come across as though i looked down on them as human beings for their choices. i respect their right to choose and their right to experience the effects (negative or positive) in regard to their choices.

i have done many wrong doings in ignorance and acted out on emotions (hell, i am an irish blooded, texas born, gemini all crammed into a woman's body lol). however, the incidents always had negative consequences which i accepted and learned from. i need mercy and understanding just as much as some of these men and women in service do. no more, no less.

that is a matter that is better dealt by them and their conscience, the Creator, and their direct victims (whether it be a mother devestated bc her child was killed; an old man who lost his wife and both legs; whoever they have directly affected by making their choice).

i wanted to say for the record, even though they are still responsible for their choice and the implications their choices bring, i think a truly penitent soldier of this war who comes forward and takes responsibility for his actions w/out placing the blame on anyone else should be shown mercy..... bc as it has been pointed out on here, who hasn't committed wrong acts in the state of ignorance? as long as they are willing to accept responsibility for their choice, i would hope they would not be preached at, shunned, or judged by us, but rather embraced and suited up to be on the side of the citizens lol.

i like the following words as posted in this thread:

Originally posted by GAOTU789
Most of them enlisted for the right reason's.

i do understand this and am first to say that i would not want to serve on any judging committing to determine who signed up for the right reasons as opposed to who signed up for the wrong.

still, as it is said, "the road to hell is paved w/ good intentions." it is our responsibility to not be deceived, even by ourselves.

Originally posted by A curious catDon't you think this world needs less anger?

ideally, yes. under the present circumstances, i think the world could do w/ more ppl getting angry and directing that anger to the injustices that are going on before our eyes. we share this planet and therefore, we all share to some degree, a responsibility to speak out against those who would manipulate, especially in order to control.

i am all for personal experiences and dealing w/ the natural consequences for our choices, but there are some who try to convince us that we are not capable of being responsible for ourselves so that we will willingly hand over the responsibility of our lives (ie.. control of our lives) to their greedy hands.

don't know about anyone else, but i don't need to be protected from myself or from my neighbor, but rather from those who would impose tyranny into my life.

Originally posted by A curious catTo sympathise means to support, to empathise means to put yourself in anothers place, to understand them not condone their actions.

well, when i said that i sympathized and not necessarily empathized w/ the soldiers, i was referring to what they were going through having been abandoned by their loved ones.

specifically i said:

Originally posted by justamomma
i don't need to empathize w/ these men being abandoned by the ones they love bc i can sympathize.

i sympathize w/ them in this case bc they are fellow humans, not because they are soldiers. i would show them no more / no less sympathy than i would anyone else going through such a thing.

now, i tend to be very objective about these things, not only w/ others, but w/ myself and therefore don't doubt that i can come off, on here at least, sounding like a callous person. i am not.

again, i have been through this very same thing and have walked through a very personal and real hell over the last almost 3 yrs (being that we seperated at the end of july '05).


however, i don't blame 0R excuse myself or my ex. things happened, we made choices, we acted on emotions and thus the result..... it was too much for him to be able to work through and he walked.

his choice and his right. the only thing that hurt as much as him choosing to walk away was what my brother did. when the ex walked, i wanted to scream and i wanted spit fire for a good year and a half. but i kept those feelings in check and rather than place the blame and try to work up a support of "feel sorry for me friends", i took control of my life and worked w/ what i had. it wasn't a matter of needing ppl's support, it was simply a matter of me realizing that whether on my own or not, i have to take personal responsibility and keep moving and learning.

Originally posted by A curious catWhen you spoke of your brother you did sound harsh, very harsh, but I was then too harsh in my comments to you. I really do understand your pain and anger, I just wonder, if you could feel the hatred your brother had for himself, enough to abandon the family that loved and needed him, if you could feel that self hatred, maybe you would feel a little less angry, maybe the pain would be lessened. You can't really understand until you do.

i was being honest w/ the other members and posters on this thread when sharing that.

the day that my mom told me is a day that is forever etched in my memory. i didn't eat or sleep for quite some time and went through a myriad of emotions, ranging from depressed to hopeless, guilty to angry, unable to understand how yet being able to understand why, numb to uncontrollable. it has taken considerable effort to come to terms w/ the effects it has had on my life and the lives of those i love. if he were to be able to come back and make ammends for what he did to everyone, w/out question, in my mind, he would be forgiven.

however, he can not.... and that is bc of the choice he made to give up on himself AND his family. for what he did to himself and to those he left behind, i am angry, but just because i am angry doesn't mean that i don't understand how overwhelming life w/ all its pressures and guilts can be...... i know bc i face it everyday.

i am angry BECAUSE i loved and valued him so much regardless of the choices he made. however, ultimately he chose to bypass his chance to make ammends for his choices in this life. my anger is rather passive though. i mean, seriously, i can't do much to help him now. he had so much good in him, he really did and i miss him terribly.

i have tried to make good of the aweful situation he left us in and that is in remembering the value each of us possess as humans to not only ourselves, but more importantly to those around us. when we feel like giving up, there are those who deserve for us to hold on and perservere through the hard times.

and for the record, i didn't take your reply to be harsh. i just figured you were passionate about the perspective you viewed it all from. i am not scared to look at things from someone else's vantage point.

(will finish answering your reply in another post )





[edit on 11-7-2008 by justamomma]

Originally posted by theendisnear69
Yeah sorry if I can't support someone whos main job is to KILL. Why are they considered heroes for going over to another country and killing people. And they do this to help the elites stay rich and powerful.

Nothing will end the war unless the people themselves refuse to fight.

I hear alot of soldiers say well "it takes courage to go and fight a war that you don't believe in". What is that? Come on that is just sad. It takes a hell of alot more courage to not go and fight at all!

Great point. I second your view.

Besides, no nation should invade a weaker one to steal its resources.

Originally posted by A curious cat
I don't believe in placing blame,

I do.

Explain to me why people think we should support people who willingly joined a organization that goes into dangerous places and kills people for a living?

It is not as is they were drafted and forced to do this. They joined the MILITARY which is a JOB WHERE YOU KILL PEOPLE AND DIE FOR A LIVING. Do you think they joined expecting to parade themselves around with their guns wearing their funny looking hats in America and never go to war?

I don't have to support anyone who signed up to kill people and die for a living that is the life they chose. Wake up, the military is a squad of killers. Are you so numb to what the military really is that you feel sorry once they actually have to do their jobs?

I didn't decide to go to war, and I didn't take a job where I kill people for money. Explain why I should support people who do?

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Think about it, your thousands of miles from home in a strange country in a war setting, with extreme weather conditions, just this stress alone would make it hard to cope, waiting for that next contact from your loved ones would be the hilight of your day or week, but then add a e-mail or a phone call or a letter from the one you love dumping you, or contact from friends or relatives telling you the one you love is cheating on you. This stress is too much for many to bare.

Sometimes the same person that went off to war is not the same person that returns.I did believe in supporting them up to a point.By now they should be aware that they are nothing more than tools.By now they should be aware that their leader is a liar.By now they should have realized that checks and balances need to be restored and Bush belongs in jail.

Originally posted by Dave Rabbit

"It's the Soldier, not the reporter,
who has given us freedom of the press.

It's the Soldier, not the poet,
who has given us freedom of speech.

It's the Soldier, not the campus organizer,
who has given us freedom to demonstrate.

Maya

Avidya

Self Knowledge is the only thing that can FREE you from your own ignorance...

This side of moksha, one finds essentially satchidananda; existence-consciousness-bliss.

I am you, you are me.

Free your mind, the rest will follow.

I am,

Sri Oracle

Do the troops support us? If the economy collapses, if the elections are canceled, if there are protests against the Fed, if they implement rex84... etc, etc, etc.

Will the troops support us? Or will they continue their Master's bidding... even though they know it is wrong?

Originally posted by yankeerose
Do the troops support us? If the economy collapses, if the elections are canceled, if there are protests against the Fed, if they implement rex84... etc, etc, etc.

Will the troops support us? Or will they continue their Master's bidding... even though they know it is wrong?

gawd, this is what i can't believe ppl aren't seeing!!


also, i wanted to point out that if left up to the "higher ups", the troops will NOT be coming home!!

the ONLY way they (as a whole) will get out of these places that they DON'T belong in is by admitting that, yes, they were duped into believing they were fighting for their fellow citizens but now it is clear they are fighting for the wrong ppl and then take responsibility for where they are at and LEAVE. yes, some (maybe many) will not make it home BUT THEIR CHANCES OF NOT MAKING IT HOME are ALREADY just as dire by continuing to submit.

i cry for these men and women. i cry for their families. if i had the means to go over there and stand right next to them should they decide to do what's right, i would in an instant. all it would take is a minority of TRULY courageous soldiers to resist the real evil and those that are scared would most likely follow, bc i honestly believe that most of them do have a nagging conscience still.....

but the more they submit to fear and ignore their conscience, the more numb their conscience will get..... and that is not a good thing for them OR for us in the long run.

[edit on 13-7-2008 by justamomma]

I'm gonna try to make this clear as mud:
Been here done that. I supported the troops in Viet Nam. I wore a POW bracelet. But this is Viet Nam on crack and no draft. The soldiers in the services now enlisted to get whatever they thought they could get for themsleves. Maybe a few, like the assasinated footballl player, enlisted out of some delussional buy-in about 9/11, but the majority are too poor for colloge, have the odds stacked against them, and believed the recruiters when they were promised a way out of whatever # hole they lived in when they enlisted. Mental paradigm of avg enlisted personnell? Self.

They get sent into an illegal war. They soon "get it" and say ;OK it's all good, I can do this cuz it's only a short time then I'm home and get my degree and I'll make it."

Then they reaize they are murdering, raping, pillaging, and bombing innocent civilians. "oh I can't handle my own sold out humanity! " Breakdown.

I tore off my POW bracelet when the news about MEI LAI came out. I will never wear one again.

Troops: Understand this: You are a human being. If orderes demand you violate your own soul, disobey. Do that, i support you. Don't, I don't. Period.