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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:01 AM by WhatTheory
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by WhatTheory
Hmm
i am curious
and this is a real question, so please dont flame
I remember (and its been a long time) hearing something about Washginton DC has a different set of "laws" or something like that when the
constitution is brougth up?
Basically - they're not a state, so different things can happen in DC
?
No, there is nothing special about DC regarding the Constitution.
I think what you are refering to is their voting rights and representation.
Here is a link that explains it:
Link about DC voting rights
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:01 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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reply to post by deadbang
Now you are - once again - omitting things to fit your agenda
I said a "well regulated militia" is not some yokel and 20 of his hill billy friends starting a group and calling it a militia
Do try and be fair about these things, wont you?
Deleting my entire passage so that it looks like i said something other than i really did does seem to be a favorite past time of certain people on
these boards
however, i did nto say what you claim i did
and you can scroll back up and see for yourself
and oh yeah: im an elitist
i make less than 70k a year. How does that make me elite
[edit on 7/7/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:03 AM by -Reason-
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No. Terrorist are men. They forefit ALL of their rights when they decide to blow up little kids.
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:04 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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reply to post by WhatTheory
from that link you provided, whatheory, it says
Congress has the final say on DC's budget and laws.
It says congress decides, not the constitution?
By denying DC residents representation in Congress, are they not denying them the right to be equal?
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:04 AM by deadbang
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
I didnt omit portions to make my point, you said hilbilly and yokels not me...and an elitist has nothing to do with income its a mindset..
oh, and don't be a condescending ass Andrew...pathetic.
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:04 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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reply to post by -Reason-
Yeah, and Charles Manson raped and murdered little boys
Does he not have a constitutional right, as laid forth by the constitution?
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:08 AM by -Reason-
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My goodness... you are stretching aren't you? Are you just trying to justify Obama's sympathies for the terrorist?
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:09 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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reply to post by -Reason-
No.
I am trying to uphold what the constitution stands for
The founding fathers wrote "all men are created equal"
and even though they really didnt mean it
I DO
ALL men are created equal
You attach emotion to it by calling them terrorists
yep. They are terrorists
and the moment we deny them what we stand for, we become no better than they are.
I am stretching it thin?
[edit on 7/7/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]
[edit on 7/7/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:10 AM by jamie83
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
I.) Against domestic drilling. While im not AGAINST domestic drilling, i do agree with Obama. It will not lower gas prices. George hershel
walker Bush imposed the current moratorium on Domestic Drilling....were you aware?
So let's get this straight. Long-time oil man George H.W. Bush imposed ban on offshore drilling. For whose benefit did he do this? Do you really
think he was an environmentalist? Of course he wasn't. But this kept the price of oil high.
And so now Obama wants to carry on in Bush's footsteps and it doesn't raise a red flag?
J.) touchy subject. I agree. However; were the founding fathers saying in "all men are created equal" that this only applies to US territories?
Are "terrorists" not men as well?
I'm pretty sure that the "all men are created equal" line isn't in the Constitution, but instead it's in the Declaration of Independence. The
Declaration of Independence was written to counter the idea that the King of England somehow had divine powers. Thus, that line was to highlight the
opposing view that King wasn't special at all, i.e., that he was a man like everybody else.
Now when it comes to fighting a war, nobody except modern day liberals, including Obama, have ever suggested that opponents on the battlefield be
given Constitutional rights. In fact, Obama's own stated objective to capture OBL belies his position that OBL would be granted Constitutional
rights. I will guarantee that if special forces surround OBL nobody is going to be reading him his rights.
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:15 AM by -Reason-
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The SF guys will read him his rights, with 671 grains of diplomacy. All the rights he deserves.
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:21 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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reply to post by -Reason-
Well, unfortuantely, the constitution disagrees with you.
yes. the declaration of independence is different from the constituation
....were they not written by the same group of people?
If one means one thing
and the other means another thing
and they contradict one another (as jamie suggests)
....then should we really take either one seriously?
Personally, i think all (wo)men deserve the rights we cherish as Americans. to deny them that, no matter how horrible the crime, is to deny ourselves
our morality
When Sadam was captured, he was granted constitutional rights and was put on trial.
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:22 AM by ChocoTaco369
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Originally posted by deadbang
The second amendment is very clear about who the militia is...it's you and I, and as such we are allowed to own and keep guns.
No. im sorry, its not.
It says a militia. I've given definition of a militia. Militia's still exist in today's society, do i really need to provide google results to
prove this to you? An individual is not a militia.
[edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]
At the time the Constitution was written, the whole damned nation was a militia. Have you ever heard of the Revolutionary War?
The recipients of the 2nd Amendment are CLEARLY outlined in the 3rd Amendment. Funny how the anti-rights libs always forget that. The 3rd Amendment
specifically states that in times of peace, the people have the right to deny quartering to soldiers and members of the government. The point of the
guns, as outlined by the 3rd Amendment, is to keep the GOVERNMENT out of the homes of the PEOPLE.
You're wrong. That is why the Originalists voted FOR individual rights as envisioned by the Founding Fathers and the Activists in
typical fashion voted AGAINST individual rights as usual.
I don't understand how libs today are AGAINST individual rights. Don't they realize that once we lose our individual rights, we don't get them
back? Only a suicidal crackpot would be AGAINST the rights of people. That is the problem with the citizens in this country - they think this is a
Democracy. America is NOT and NEVER HAS BEEN a Democracy. We are a REPUBLIC. The word Democracy isn't even mentioned in the Articles of the
Constitution. The Founding Fathers were adamantly against a Democracy, or a mobocracy, as they called it, because it incites mob rule and corruption.
When the majority realizes they can vote in their own benefits package at the expense of the minority, the system breaks down. The Republic lasts
forever. AND TO THE REPUBLIC, FOR WHICH IT STANDS!
Andrew, I'd be impressed if you knew what a Republic was off the top of your head. I can all but guarantee you'll have to Google that definition to
reply to me.
[edit on 7-7-2008 by ChocoTaco369]
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:26 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
At the time the Constitution was written, the whole damned nation was a militia. Have you ever heard of the Revolutionary War?
actually....no....they weren't
another definition of a militia (pay special close attention to the #3)
1. An army composed of ordinary citizens rather than professional soldiers.
2. A military force that is not part of a regular army and is subject to call for service in an emergency.
3. The whole body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service.
source
Physically fit and "eligible by law" certainly doesnt apply to everyone.
A militia is setup to protect those who cannot protect themselves
if you are a person who cannot protect yourself, and you are protected by an outside militia, then you do not belong to that militia
since there were lots of people like this during colonial times, your statement is incorrect
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:28 AM by beaverg
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by beaverg
a WELL regulated militia
that doesnt mean any yokel with 20 hill billy friends can start a militia and condone having automatic weapons
neighborhood watch? Hmm, well i guess if you want to call it that, i would support the use of arms for such a program, as long as it were regulated,
and organized
Here is a link to the Neighborhood Watch Program. Their goal is to be well regulated and organized; Safer like
that  . Actually if those "hill billies" are organized and they can form a 'militia'(*edit*Neighborhood Watch*) to protect their property in
cooperation with the local police and have firearms in the process. It may work down here for us 'hill billies' but I'm sure things are different
in the big cities.
[edit on 7-7-2008 by beaverg]
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:29 AM by ChocoTaco369
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
Again, you miss the point. You are applying today's definition to a word defined over 200 years ago. In order to understand what the Founding
Fathers meant, you have to understand what words meant two centuries ago. You're completely ignorant of originalism, which is why you have no right
to break down the Constitution. You, plain and simple, don't understand it.
Once again, refer to the 3rd Amendment as it clearly defines the 2nd Amendment. Again, in order to judge the Constitution, you have to UNDERSTAND
it.
[edit on 7-7-2008 by ChocoTaco369]
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:30 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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reply to post by beaverg
The goal is to be well regulated and organized?
Good! You have a goal. If you have not attained that goal, then legally speaking, you have not attained status of militia.
I do not refer to any one group of people as hill billies
i live in Urbana, IL, hardly a big city
i bow hunt, i pheasant hunt, and i go fishing.
Hardly a big city elitist
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:31 AM by -Reason-
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Ok Andrew, I think that we can all agree you are hopeless on Gun rights. So why not quite before you look even more silly and answer some of the other
questions that What Theroy asked about.
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:34 AM by ChocoTaco369
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3rd Amendment:
No soldier shall, in time of peace, be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be
prescribed by law.
This clearly outlines that the individual property owner is held in a higher regard than the military. The military is part of the Government, and
the rights of the individuals are clearly more important according to the Founding Fathers.
As you know, the military is armed. The point of the 2nd Amendment was to give individual owners of homes the right to own a gun and keep the
military (aka Government) out of their home, and if the government tried to force their way in, you were within your rights to stop them with
force.
THAT is the purpose of the 2nd Amendment - a supplement to the 3rd Amendment.
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:34 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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Originally posted by ChocoTaco369
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
Again, you miss the point. You are applying today's definition to a word defined over 200 years ago. In order to understand what the Founding
Fathers meant, you have to understand what words meant two centuries ago. You're completely ignorant of originalism, which is why you have no right
to break down the Constitution. You, plain and simple, don't understand it.
[edit on 7-7-2008 by ChocoTaco369]
Oh, im ignorant huh?
Lets refer to some outside material for reference
Seems unbiased to me
maybe we should all (me too) read this
What does 'well regulated' mean
What was a colonial militia
hmm, seems like some things are leaning towards "wiggin is right"
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reply posted on 7-7-2008 @ 12:37 AM by Andrew E. Wiggin
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next subject
Barack Obama on Budget & Economy
I agree with a lot of Obama's stances. You can view this Here
anyone care to discuss?
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