Once and for all: Why you should vote for Obama, page 4

reply to post by toasted

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Well, that is your opinion. And being an American, you can thank people like barack obama for fighting for you to have that opinon.

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

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"" but i do have a problem that because that right exists, there will be criminals who take advantage of it to murder and destroy. ""

Are you INSANE? ...

Where on earth did you get a cockamamie idea like that, the gumball machine?



Remember this pal, " When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns"

They don't give a tinkers damn what the law is! Never have, never will.

The only thing the enemy of the people is interested in is, an unarmed electorate. Care to guess why?

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

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" you can thank people like barack obama for fighting for you to have that opinon. "


I CAN?!......

Please, explain that one to me...

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

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You mean, you'd only vote for them if their names were on the ballot?

you never heard of writing in a candidate?

where has all the real American Spirit gone to in this country?

reply to post by pccat

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Well, all of those are individual opinions. Those opinions were not indoctrinated into the bill of rights.

Militias arent "JUST" the national guard. Seriously, are you unable to research this for yourself

fine. here ya go. make sure you read them all entirely.

The need for a well regulated militia

Civilian Militia patrols mexican border

Does it protect the right to bear arms?

A history of the Civilian Militias

Military vs Militia

Modern Minutemen

I think its pretty clear to see there's a big difference here. Civilian militias (outside of the government) still exist very abundantly.

So again

Militia vs. Individual

the 2nd amendment says

"the rights of the people [of the militia]"

as it refers to in the begining of the paragraph.

Open and shut ?






[edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by jetxnet

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Since when is it flaming to call you on your biased position, and your blatant avoidance of the negative areas of your candidate. You sure spend a lot of time looking at the negative aspects of the other candidates?


Not a personal attack, a fair question. Why do you work so hard at being biased? How can you maintain the fiction within your own head that you are not biased?

I don't think you can. You don't for a second fool me, and probably anyone else. You make yourself hollow and monolithic by spouting jiongoisms from some political playbook. You might as well be waving Chairman Mao's Red Book and reciting from it.

So don't insult me for calling you on it! Just answer the questions honestly.
I may be wrong at times, but I am always honest. If you cannot deal with honest people, you are using the wrong ammo. You can only come out on top by being both honest and more correct. Until then you are shooting blanks.

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by pccat

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So again

Militia vs. Individual

the 2nd amendment says

"the rights of the people [of the militia]"

as it refers to in the begining of the paragraph.

Open and shut ?


[edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

WOW !!!......

You are one VERY confused dude...why not give it a rest for the night.

I'll give you props for having great enthusiasm, but that's it.

Why?....right here...where you said this;

"" Militia vs. Individual ""

You couldn't HAVE a militia, WITHOUT individuals!!!!!!


"The term militia is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens to provide defense, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service."


Say goodnight wiggins....

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

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Andrew, who the hell do you think the militias were/are...the Hessians?

it's you and me...American citizens, and at this point I think your being obtuse.

and more to the point, you (and those like you) are the basic reason I won't vote for Obama...Although I currently reside in NZ, I am an Illinois resident (Bolingbrook IL)...I know Obama's record or lack thereof and I hardly need one of his mouthpieces browbeating me and everyone else to "persuade" me to vote for him (you see I do understand Chicago politics)...keep spewing your hate man, twisting words, obfusicating the truth...

won't win not one vote for the man...maybe you should try lucid well thought out arguments...it's more persuasive.

The founding fathers knew exactly what they were saying when they wrote the second amedment, who the hell are you to second guess James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington???

reply to post by toasted

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exactly

and to belong to a militia is to shed the label of individual

you belong to - a - militia

if you're int hat militia, you own a gun

it takes individuals to make up the marines.

So do all americans have to abide by the policies of the marines? Do all americans get to reap the benefits of what a marine would? (GI Bill, Signing bonus, etc)? No. They sign up for the marines, shed their individual label, and become "a marine"

same thing applies here


if you belong to what the founding fathers belonged to - you get a gun
lets evaluate somethign else they wrote, very clearly, yet went against because of the 'times'


All men are created equal

yeah - all men who are like the founding fathers.
Take all of these into consideration.

It took an amendment to abolish slavery

It will take an amendment to straigthen out the language of this 'right' as well.

Its not descriptive enough as to who the 'right' refers to.

You say it refers to everyone

but the founding fathers say it refers to the militia

i seriously feel like sometimes im talking to brick walls on ATS

[edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by deadbang

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i repeat

it takes individuals to make up the marines.

So do all americans have to abide by the policies of the marines? Do all americans get to reap the benefits of what a marine would? (GI Bill, Signing bonus, etc)? No. They sign up for the marines, shed their individual label, and become "a marine"

same thing applies here

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by toasted

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Well, that is your opinion. And being an American, you can thank people like barack obama for fighting for you to have that opinon.

Barak Obama has not fought to give me any of my liberties, I dont know where you got that?

At what point did Mr Obama serve in the military? Our founding fathers declared our liberties, and people like myself and millions of others served to make sure we retain them...where does Obama figure into that equation?...hell he can't even be counted on to vote when IL congress is in session!

reply to post by deadbang

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The founding fathers knew exactly what they were saying when they wrote the second amedment, who the hell are you to second guess James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, George Washington???

Who am i to second guess the same men who wrote "all men are created equal" and then went and bought a bunch of black human beings and turned them into slaves?


i think the better question would be

who are you to NOT question the founding fathers like you would any other government


what i mean is:

You claim the founding fathers meant everyone by the 2nd amendment

but they give us clear indications that they do not write these laws for 'everyone'

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

and if this were a movie made in a foriegn language
the sub-text would read

[except for black people]



So. If they dont write all of their laws to apply to all people

Why would the 'gun right' apply to all people as well? They do not say, at all, "all the people of the nation"

they say


all the people of the militia






BIGGGG difference

[edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

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Having served in our military, I can tell you, none of them require you to shed your identity and become some type of automaton...

and as to your other statements. GI Bill etc...no ALL don't get these benefits, then again, ALL dont get put in harms way either!

reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin

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It is a case of INDIVIDUALS having the God given right to defend themselves, their property and if necessary their neighborhood.

and this;


""it takes individuals to make up the marines. ""

""You say it refers to everyone

but the founding fathers say it refers to the militia ""

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Dude! The marines, are marines, NOT the MILITIA!!!!!

What part of this definition , do you NOT understand?

""The term militia is commonly used today to refer to a military force composed of ordinary citizens to provide defense, emergency law enforcement, or paramilitary service, in times of emergency without being paid a regular salary or committed to a fixed term of service""

Marines are PAID
Police are PAID
our Military is PAID

has it sunk in yet?

reply to post by Slazer

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"" Ron Paul was the best out of the pack, and he's not in it anymore.""


So, what stopping you from writing in WHO YOU WANT?!?

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