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Once and for all: Why you should vote for Obama

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posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:49 PM
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reply to post by toasted
 


So to you - it only matters if they are paid?

Well, once again, lets evaluate what militia means



1. a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2. a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
3. all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

Websters


To become a part of a militia is to set yourself apart from someone who is not a part of that militia

so

You are no longer just an individual

you are part of something

you are part of the militia


to be in the militia, as the founding fathers clearly wrote it, is to have the right to bare arms.

To not be in the militia and bare arms, is a PRIVILEGE and this is proven by the fact that a felon is not allowed to own a firearm.

Pretty simple really

rights cannot be stripped

you cannot be a felon and be in any recognized civilian militia

therefore, you cannot be a felon and own a firearm....



we really need to continue repeating ourselves? Or are you going to take a second to read what i type, and consider the possibility that you might just be wrong




posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:53 PM
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i wonder if we might be able to get back on topic?

The topic is you are challenging Obama's stance on the 2nd amendment.

so far we have discussed things, and i have rebuttled with

This

This


and this


all of which you have completely ignored 100%

are we goign to discuss, or are you just here to troll?

Lets try to get back on topic



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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Who am i to second guess the same men who wrote "all men are created equal" and then went and bought a bunch of black human beings and turned them into slaves?


Wow Andrew, a new low even for you. You go from attacking ATS Posters personally to attacking the founding fathers!

The Constitution has nothing to do with slaves.

The debt to slavery was more than paid with the blood of over 400,000 Americans in the Civil War to free slaves!!

White america owes nothing for that slavery of the past.

You sure like to twist words and meaning around Andrew, but suffice it to say, you are rather poor at that.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:55 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 

Why are you beating a dead horse regarding the gun issue?
The supreme court already ruled that individual citizens can have guns. Case closed! Geesh!

Besides, why does anyone need people like politicians and the supreme court to tell them how to think and believe regarding the gun issue? I mean, the Constitution is simple enough to read and clearly states that citizens can arm themselves. Most people can read and don't need anyone else to 'interprete' what they believe the 2nd Amendment means.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 10:59 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by pccat
 


Well, all of those are individual opinions. Those opinions were not indoctrinated into the bill of rights.

Militias arent "JUST" the national guard. Seriously, are you unable to research this for yourself



huh? those opinions were the basis FOR the bill of rights.. and those opinions were very clear..
a militia is raised in time of need.. we NEED to be armed for that time..
and seriously dude.. don't go into my research abilities.. there are obviously two sides to this argument.. your points are valid to your interpretation.. but not to mine.. I think the founding fathers have stated their point of view clear enough..



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:00 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 


actually, they decided on the "DC" gun ban

not all gun bans
Source

Furthermore, are you suggesting that what the supreme court says is 100% law? They cannot be challenged because they are "supreme" ? Please.
You seem very conservative, so do you also agree with the supreme court deciding abortion is a woman's right?

Or are we going to discuss double standards again



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:02 PM
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So, the founding fathers are now personal Gods who cannot be questioned?

Regardless of the fact that they saw all men are created equal, except for black slaves to do their cotton-picking?

"equality" did not apply to ALL MEN

just like

"right to bare arms" does not apply to ALL men

it applies to a militia - as they CLEARLY spell out for us.

I really dont see how you can argue this.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:06 PM
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Andrew, you are going around in circles.

First you say Obama doesn't support individuals having guns because it should only be for militias.

The 2nd Amendment clearly states that militias should have guns to protect against a radical government, much like the founding fathers did themselves.

Now, individuals make up militias - as you stated, so is Obama gonna grant them the right to bear arms once they form a militia then? In other words, they are banned from weapons as individuals, but when forming against the government as a militia, then they are granted weapons privilages?



[edit on 6-7-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:08 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
actually, they decided on the "DC" gun ban
not all gun bans

Come on, stop being disingenuous. The DC case will be used as precedent by all cities. It will affect the entire nation and not just DC. I'm sure you know this.


Furthermore, are you suggesting that what the supreme court says is 100% law? They cannot be challenged because they are "supreme" ? Please.

That is correct and I'm sure you know this also. Unfortunately, they have the final say so regarding the law on the books, except for the liberal judges who like to legislate from the bench. Congress can change the law or make new laws but the supreme court is the final deciding factor for current law.


You seem very conservative, so do you also agree with the supreme court deciding abortion is a woman's right?
Or are we going to discuss double standards again

What on Earth are you talking about regarding 'double standards'?
I do not agree with them on the decision about abortion but it is the law of the land and I accept it. However, it can be challenged at a later date when the judges have changed.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 



I'm done man, I entered into discussion with you, we don't agree(and thats fine, in fact it's what makes this country great)...and here come the troll remarks...

Is this how you handle all serious discussions, either agree with you or be called a troll?...what happens if your man makes it in, you gonna shoot all desenters at dawn?..oh wait that would take a militia, as only they have the right to bare arms, according to you.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:09 PM
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So, then, i ask you, JetX

Are you "born" into "A" Militia?

To be in a militia all you have to do is be born? You dont have to belong to it - like say "a tree club" (For lack of a better reference)

A militia protects peoples freedoms from the government in exactly the same way the government protects our safety from foreign and domestic terrorism.


So, if all it takes to belong to something is being alive, i guess i can go sign up for my GI bill, because i proclaim myself a marine, from this moment foward.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:11 PM
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So, you state Obama doesn't support individuals owning weapons, but is going by the Constitution and reserving for militias.

So, if Obama becomes President and I form a militia, will myself and those partnered with me get access to weapons - because we are in a militia?



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by WhatTheory
 


Oh, ok. So whatever the supreme court decides must be true? It cant be over turned, unless they themselves over turn it?

Sounds a little......dictatorish to me?



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:13 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 

I really don't understand how you can believe Obama would be good for this country considering his leftist views are dangerous and are failed policies of the past. Policies and beliefs such as:

A) Drivers licences for illegals
B) More government regulation
C) Bigger government in general like more social programs
D) Socialized Medicine
E) Higher taxes
F) Income Redistribution
G) Defense policy plans
H) Halt to manned space missions
I) Against domestic drilling
J) Provide terrorists with the rights of a U.S. citizen



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:14 PM
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This totally got off subject, this was not a thread about the 2nd Amendment. I would rather discuss the subject at hand, of whether why we should vote for Obama. I have yet to see why we should.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by Slazer]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:15 PM
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reply to post by jetxnet
 


Now you're putting words in my mouth


If you go back Here

and scroll down a ways (obviously you over looked this part of the discussion?)

you will see what i said about Obama and his ideas of gun control

here's a snippit fro quick reference


# Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. MORE PRO CHOICE FROM OBAMA

# FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban.

# Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok.

at first glance - you might say "gee, there's a conundrum!" Well, lets let Obama speak for himself:



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by Slazer
 


actually, since its a thread about why you should vote for obama, and the fact that obama has made stances on the 2nd amendment, it is not off-topic for us to discuss the second amendment.

I think i'll be the judge of what is and isnt off topic in my own thread

and of course - only overruled by the mods and admins

Thanks for the support though



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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To tell the truth I didn't know much about Obama before reading this post and now all I can see of him is a man who doesn't want to offend anybody and chaulks it up to "pro-choice". Give me a break! Who wants a president that won't stand up to anyone?? Not me. It's like this, "I believe this but it is ok to believe the way you do and I'll even make a law saying you can believe that way." HAHAHAHAHAH!!!! Please. Big government is all he is.
And Andrew, what difference does it make to you if I want to own a 50 cal?

I keep telling my friends and family that I am going to vote for Obama because it will start the revolution. I thought that I was only jesting, but after reading what Andrew writes... you know what I say...

Vote for Obama because it WILL start the revolution.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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reply to post by pccat
 

Excellent post for such a newcommer. The Supreme Court has upheld the 2nd Ammendment time and time again. Mr. Wiggins and Mr. Obama it seems, seem to know more about this than our Supreme Court and our Founding Fathers.



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 11:18 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
Oh, ok. So whatever the supreme court decides must be true? It cant be over turned, unless they themselves over turn it?

That's correct and 'true', as you put it, as it pertains to current law. The ruling may not be correct in some persons mind but it is the law of the land.

Congress can amend or write new law which is the only way to alter the supreme court ruling so it's not a dictatorship. Personally I believe the Supreme Court is abusing their power because the liberal judges always seem to legislate from the bench instead of ruling on the law itself.

[edit on 6-7-2008 by WhatTheory]



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