Once and for all: Why you should vote for Obama, page 6

reply to post by -Reason-

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Reason....im sorry that you didnt take the time to read the entire discussion, and chose to chime in 1/4 of the way through...so allow me to catch you up


Obama supports local govts to decide for themselves
he does not think ALL GUNS should be banned
He, himself, when an IL senator, voted for a handgun ban


he does what government should do

he leaves it up to each individual state to decide for themselves.

I think you're overlooking this VERY SIMPLE fact for a very bad reason

Maybe you should try to 'deny ignorance' ?

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Source? The constitution


So lets disect this for a moment

A well regulated Militia:

Websters defines "militia" as

1. a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
2. a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
3. all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.

So lets see.

I dont see the word "individual" in there



"the right of THE people"

"the people" refering to the militia

to protect their freedoms, shall not be infringed



explain to me, in what way, a 50-cal long range sniper rifle is explicit to protect your freedoms?

First off, the 2nd amendment is so allusive, that one cannot precisely say what the founding fathers meant by their words.

Militia does not apply to you and me, because we are not in a militia.

Is your neighborhood participating in Neighborhood Watch programs? I would consider such programs as a well regulated militia and for the safety of the community I would prefer that career criminals feel threatened rather than safe or untouchable searching our streets for easy targets late at night. You won't find me defending the 50-cal long range sniper rifle or automatic weapons though.

reply to post by pavil

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So now we are going to omit entire passages to try and prove me wrong?

okay. Lets try this

NO where in "we the people" does it mention "militia"

*sings*

We the people
in order to form a more perfect unnnnion
establish jsutice, ensure domestic tranquility!!!!!

Prooooviiide for the common denfense
promote the general welfaaaareeee annd

/end horrible singing (catch tune if you've ever heard it)

so "we the people" pertains to exactly that. We the people. All people involved (except for black people of course...founding fathers had to have their slaves and treat them unequally)

Onward:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Very sketchy wording.
I *am* willing to admit im wrong. But the *only* way to admit that im wrong is to have the founding fathers speak for themselves and tell us what the heck this si supposed to mean. Should it read like this (special attention to puncuation is required for demonstrative purposes)

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state. The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

or

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state and the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed


and final choice

A Well regulated militia. Being necessary to the security of a free state and the right of the people, to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.



It can be misconstrued in so many ways. SO i am merely offering my interpretation based on OTHER instances of the founding fathers that they have left for us to evaluate (all men are created equal)

Does it apply to "all people"

in my opinion - no

because they start it with a "well regulated militia"

and they add context to this militia by saying its necessary for protection, and they talk about the people OF that militia to keep and bear arms.

If they had written it as such


The right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


then we would nto be having this argument, because "the people" becomes the only subject, and leaves out the confusing part of the militia

is it the people of the militia

or is it all people?

If its all people, whats the point of starting it with militia?


[edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

reply to post by beaverg

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a WELL regulated militia

that doesnt mean any yokel with 20 hill billy friends can start a militia and condone having automatic weapons

neighborhood watch? Hmm, well i guess if you want to call it that, i would support the use of arms for such a program, as long as it were regulated, and organized

reply to post by WhatTheory

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No no no.

They ruled that the DC handgun law is thrown out

Not that all laws are


TRUE: Lawyers all across the country will be able to use this ruling to support a case for abolishment of gun control.

But it doesnt make it automatically so.

They ruled for Washington DC
not for the united states of America

reply to post by WhatTheory

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Hmm
i am curious

and this is a real question, so please dont flame

I remember (and its been a long time) hearing something about Washginton DC has a different set of "laws" or something like that when the constitution is brougth up?

Basically - they're not a state, so different things can happen in DC

?

Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by beaverg

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that doesnt mean any yokel with 20 hill billy friends can start a militia and condone having automatic weapons

Andrew, it seems we have finally gotten to the heart of the matter...you seem to be parroting an earlier Obama speech...

so if we do not agree with your stance reagarding the 2nd amedment, hillbilly and yokels is what we are?...

now you can be seen for what you are...an elitist!

edit - full quote not necesary

[edit on 6-7-2008 by deadbang]

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