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Once and for all: Why you should vote for Obama

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posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:24 AM
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To answer the copy/paste questions that my political adversaries seem to share amongst themselves, I've decided to create a rendition of the many compilations of pro-obama posts I've created over these last months.

Please note: You'll not find anything about him being "god" or "muslim" or "black" in here. So to the trolls who came here to discuss those issues:





BEFORE WE CONTINUE

Please make sure to read my entire posting of the issues, then come back and read the posts from my thread trolls
its going to be hard to keep up by reading post after post.
Unfortuantly im limited to 8000 chars at the moment


i look forward to HEALTHY debate.


Marching onwards:

Barack Obama
Illinois State Senate, 1996-2004; U.S. Senate, 2004-date

Seems that some would argue 12 years is hardly enough 'experience' in politics to be considered for president.

But lets compare him to his biggest political rival to date:
Hillary Clinton
* First Lady of the United States, 1993-2001
* First Lady of Arkansas, 1978-1979 and 1982-1992
* United States Senator, 2001-date

With ALL DUE RESPECT to the women audience - she did nothing to become first lady - than to marry Bill. So its only fair to apply her earned role as of 2001.

So the argument that he is inexperienced is really just null and void


There's been accusations that we "pro obama' "folk" never discuss the "issues"


as if that werent laughable enough, you coudl always go look through the garbage posted by certain neocons and find the issues we posted. But since this post is to negate neocon garbage, here ya go:

Here are the issues that are important to ME. if you disagree, fine. Start your own post.

All of the following comes from issues 2000

OBAMA on Abortion



  • Moral accusations from pro-lifers are counterproductive.

    described in a moment, but Obama has this to say:


    Q to Keyes -- Doesntt your pro life stance conflict with your support of the death penaty?

    KEYES It doesnt conflict at all. Abortion and capital punishment are at different level of moral concern. Abortion is intrinsically, objectively wrong and sinful whereas capital punishment is a matter of judgment, which is not in and of itself a violation of moral right. The question of whether or not you should apply capital punishment depends on circumstances and its an area where Catholics have a right to debate and disagree.

    OBAMA Now I agree with Mr. Keyes that the death penalty and abortion are separate cases. Its unfortunate that with the death penalty Mr. Keyes respects that people may have a different point of view but with the issue of abortion he has labeled people everything as terrorists to slaveholders to being consistent with Nazism for holding an opposing point of view. That kind of rhetoric is not helpful in resolving a deeply emotional subject.



  • Pass the Stem Cell Research Bill. Seems pretty important to me. And furthermore - why not? Our society would be no where close to where it is today without the medical breakthroughs that have gotten us here.
    Stemcell research has PROMISE to be the cure for many things. We will never know unless we try.
    For those in opposition - MOSTLY - their argument is that a fetus is a living, breathing, human being, with a soul and a conscience.
    I am not debating that. What i am, however, debating is this:

    Its not up to the government to determine if a fetus has a soul. The implication of a soul is of a religious realm. "Seperation of church and State" seems to be their favorite argument....why would it not apply to this issue?

    Obamas words:

    The Ronald Reagan Biomedical Research Act specifically permits embryonic stem cell research in Illinois. Today, more than 100 million Americans are afflicted by medical problems which could be affected by this research

    Obama says, This bill affects diseases that attack Americans - regardless of their gender, age, economic status, ethnicity, race or political affiliation. This is about a commitment to medical research, under strict federal guidelines. I call on leaders in Illinois and President Bush in Washington to stop playing politics on this critical issue and expand the current policy on embryonic stem cell research so that we can begin finding the cures of tomorrow today




  • Protect a woman's right to choose.

    Who are we, as a society, to tell a woman what she can and cannot do with herself?

    For almost a decade, Obama has been a leader in the Illinois legislature in the battle to protect a woman's right to choose and promote equal economic rights and opportunities.

  • Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance.


    The ultimate goal of the National Right to Life Committee is to restore legal protection to innocent human life. The primary interest of the National Right to Life Committee and its members has been the abortion controversy; however, it is also concerned with related matters of medical ethics which relate to the right to life issues of euthanasia and infanticide.

    The Committee does not have a position on issues such as contraception, sex education, capital punishment, and national defense. The National Right to Life Committee was founded in 1973 in response to the Roe vs. Wade Supreme Court decision, legalizing the practice of human abortion in all 50 states, throughout the entire nine months of pregnancy.

    The NRLC has been instrumental in achieving a number of legislative reforms at the national level, including a ban on non-therapeutic experimentation of unborn and newborn babies, a federal conscience clause guaranteeing medical personnel the right to refuse to participate in abortion procedures, and various amendments to appropriations bills which prohibit (or limit) the use of federal funds to subsidize or promote abortions in the United States and overseas.

    In addition to maintaining a lobbying presence at the federal level, NRLC serves as a clearinghouse of information for its state affiliates and local chapters, its individual members, the press, and the public.


  • Supports Roe v. Wade

    speaks for its self

  • Rated 100% by NARAL on pro-choice votes in 2005, 2006 & 2007


    Sen. Obama received the following scores on NARAL Pro-Choice America's Congressional Record on Choice.

    * 2007: 100 percent
    * 2006: 100 percent
    * 2005: 100 percent


    Pretty clearly: Obama is Pro-Choice - as ANY politician should be (especially a president)

  • Misc. Snippets about Obama and his Abortion Stance:




    AT A GLANCE



    * Reproductive Choice: Obama has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving a women's right to choose under Roe v. Wade a priority as president. Obama also supports expanded access to contraception, health information and preventive services to reduce unintended pregnancies.

    OBAMAS PLAN



    * Protecting a Women's Right to Choose: Obama will make safeguarding women's rights under Roe v. Wade a priority. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn that decision.
    * Reducing Unintended Pregnancy: Obama will work to reduce unintended pregnancy by guaranteeing equity in contraceptive coverage, providing sex education, and offering rape victims accurate information about emergency contraception.

    OBAMA RECORD



    * Throughout his career, in both the Illinois Senate & the US Senate, Obama has stood up for a women's right to choose, consistently earning 100% ratings from pro-choice groups.


    (more to come)

    [edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

    [edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

    [edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]




posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:45 AM
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I'm gonna tell you why shouldn't vote for Obama Andrew, and here they are:
admin edit: Please include a source link or publication name.

Mortgage scandals in his Chicago district involving Tony Rezko and other slumb lords.

The list goes on and on Andrew .. in addition to these points, the more Obama flip-flops and backs down how his word, the hard your job becomes in defending him.



[edit on 6-7-2008 by jetxnet]

[edit on 7-6-2008 by Springer]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:51 AM
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Barack Obama on Budget & Economy




  • Can't do anything at home with $12 billion a month on Iraq.

    So true! Why are we giving all this money to Iraq to fight their cause, when we have our own causes to fight at home? We have to deal with poverty, bigotry, oppression, famine, abuse, sexism, and murder ourselves. Maybe not quite on the same scale, but regardless of scale, they're still OUR problems.

    Obama:



    The fact that we are spending $12 billion every month in Iraq means that we cant engage in the kind of infrastructure improvements that are going to make us more competitive, we cant deliver on the kinds of health care reforms that Clinton and I are looking for.

    McCain is willing to have these troops over there for 100 years. The notion that we would sustain that kind of effort and neglect not only making us more secure here at home, more competitive here at home, allow our economy to sink.


  • I agree with EVERYTHING else he says on this

    (its a lot)

    * Can't do anything at home with $12 billion a month on Iraq. (Feb 2008)

    * Protect consumers with Credit Card Bill of Rights. (Feb 2008)

    * More accountability in subprime mortgages. (Feb 2008)

    * Bush stimulus plan leaves out seniors & unemployed. (Jan 2008)

    * Voted against limiting credit to 30%, because 30% too high. (Jan 2008)

    * Account for every single dollar for new proposed programs. (Jan 2008)

    * Help the homeowners actually living in their homes. (Jan 2008)

    * Bankruptcy bill pushed by banks &. (Jan 2008)

    * Lack of an energy policy is a financial burden. (Jan 2008)

    * Bush & GOP dug budget hole; need years to dig out. (Dec 2007)

    * Save $150 billion in tax cuts for people who don't need them. (Dec 2007)

    * Take China "to the mat" about currency manipulation. (Dec 2007)

    * Rejects free market vision of government. (Oct 2007)

    * Regulate financial instruments to protect home mortgages. (Aug 2007)

    * Government regulation needed for when markets fail. (Aug 2007)

    * Return to PayGo: compensate for all new spending. (Oct 2006)

    * Bush's economic policies are not working. (May 2004)

    * Supports federal programs to protect rural economy. (May 2004)

    * Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)

    * Voted NO on $40B in reduced federal overall spending. (Dec 2005)

    * Get minorities into home ownership & global marketplace. (Jan 2001)

    * Require full disclosure about subprime mortgages. (Dec 2007)

    read his comments on each by clicking here




Barack Obama on Energy & Oil



(first off - do you know that it was republicans who imposed the current moratorium on domestic off-shore drilling? Guess who? George hershel walker Bush
)


  • Nuclear power ok if we safeguard against waste & terrorism.

    Nuclear is the key to our problems, IMO. Though, no matter if a republican or democrat opts it into policy first, the party who didnt will accuse the party who did of 'furthering' global warming by emitting more water vapor into the atmosphere
    (this debate never ends. Want proof that global warming is not man-made? Ask the dinosaurs)


  • Stop sending $800M a day to Mideast dictators for oil. (Mar 2007)

    Speaks for its self


  • Wants Detroit to build more hybrids & use more ethanol.

  • We cannot drill our way out of our addiction to oil.

  • Tradable credits for renewable energy

  • Here is Obama's Voting Record on Energy



    Passed tax credit for installing E85 ethanol at gas stations.

    Voted YES on removing oil & gas exploration subsidies.

    Voted YES on making oil-producing and exporting cartels illegal.

    Voted YES on factoring global warming into federal project planning.

    oted YES on disallowing an oil leasing program in Alaska's ANWR.

    Voted YES on $3.1B for emergency oil assistance for hurricane-hit areas.

    Voted YES on reducing oil usage by 40% by 2025 (instead of 5%).

    Voted YES on banning drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

    Sponsored bill for tax credit for providing 85% ethanol gas

    Sponsored bill to notify public when nuclear releases occur

    Sponsored bill raising CAFE by a 4% per year until 2018

    Rated 100% by the CAF, indicating support for energy independence

    Designate sensitive ANWR area as protected wilderness

    Set goal of 25% renewable energy by 2025




    Barack Obama on Gun Control



    Without a DOUBT - the most grossley misquoted, over-exxagerated, and mis interpreted portion of Obama's campaign.
    His actions speak louder than Rush Limbaughs words. So if you're anti-obama because of Gun Control --- Why?


    • Ok for states & cities to determine local gun laws. MORE PRO CHOICE FROM OBAMA


    • FactCheck: Yes, Obama endorsed Illinois handgun ban.

    • Respect 2nd Amendment, but local gun bans ok.

      at first glance - you might say "gee, there's a conundrum!" Well, lets let Obama speak for himself:



      Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country.

      I think its important for us to recognize that weve got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families.

      We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets.

      And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and peoples traditions.



    • Provide some common-sense enforcement on gun licensing

      sounds like a plan to me!
      God knows i dont want some A-hole pulling an uzi on me. What do they need an uzi for? Hunting?.....

    • 2000: cosponsored bill to limit purchases to 1 gun per month

    • Concealed carry OK for retired police officers

    • Stop unscrupulous gun dealers dumping guns in cities

    • Keep guns out of inner cities--but also problem of morality

    • Bush erred in failing to renew assault weapons ban

    • Ban semi-automatics, and more possession restrictions

    • Voted NO on prohibiting lawsuits against gun manufacturers


    I really fail to see how people can say "no" to Obama on gun control. Its simple:

    if you are a law abiding citizen and you use your gun to


    • Protect yourself and/or your family
    • Or hunt


    you're not going to loose your gun. What else is there to worry about? Angry because he says "no" to allowing you to have a 50-cal sniper rifle? Oh well - i guess you're just going to have to get over that one.



    (continued)



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 01:56 AM
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reply to post by jetxnet
 


I see.

A few things wrong with your post, Jetx


Once again - you dont supply anything from an 'external source' to backup your claims

tisk tisk. I figured you'd learn the first time you plagiarized. :shk:

Next: Prove his wife is racist. You think she's racist because she's black? Pfft.

Lastly: you've ignored every shred of evidence to disprove all the other reasons you choose not to vote for Obama.

if you dont want to vote for obama for your own reasons - thats fine

but stop letting that disgruntled Clinton supporter feed you full of non-sense when you come here and post

You choose not to vote for Obama for some very rediculous reasons.

A.) They're not true - most of which in the context of which you use them
B.) They have nothing to do with Obama as a leader.

Now i will continue on with my post.

I apologize to my readers for the trolling

we now return you to your regularly scheduled broadcast:

[edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:00 AM
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Your information is highly skewed Andrew.

Obama voted against strengthening trade laws that dealt with unfair trade practices by foreign countries with regard to the US! Look it up.

Obama is pro-China, though China has been warned and continues to exercise unfair trade practices blatently that are increasing the dismal trade deficit between the two countries.

In spite of China's bad trade practices and a 220 Billion trade deficit with China, Obama is still for the current trade policies with China as they are!! Look that up.



[edit on 6-7-2008 by jetxnet]



posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:24 AM
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Barack Obama on Immigration




  • Encourage every student to learn a second language

    --- And why not? Being Bi-lingual is one sign of intelligence. it stimulates the brain. Notice its "encourage" and not "enforce" .. more pro-choice from Obama



  • Immigrants are scapegoats for high unemployment rates

    --- All Too True !

    Obama:


    Before the latest round of immigrants showed up, you had huge unemployment rates among African-American youth.

    So to suggest somehow that the problem that were seeing in inner-city unemployment, for example, is attributable to immigrants is a case of scapegoating that I do not believe in, I do not subscribe to.

    There is no doubt that we have to get control of our borders. We cant have hundreds of thousands of people coming over to the US without us having any idea who they are. We have to crack down on those employers that are taking advantage of the situation, hiring folks who cannot complain about worker conditions, who arent getting the minimum wage sometimes, or arent getting overtime.

    There are a whole host of reasons why we have not been generating the kinds of jobs that we are generating. We should not use immigration as a tactic to divide.


  • Sanctuary cities show that feds are not enforcing law

    -- Imagine that. The federal government that has been setting on its John Brown hind quarters for the last 8 years, refuses to do anything about border towns and illegal immigrants. Instead, they look in places like New York city, and Bangcock, Maine. Complete waste of time


  • Let's be a nation of laws AND a nation of immigrants

    --- Agreed. Nobody reading this would be here if it werent for the ideal of immigration. Just take a second to think about that before you hit the reply out of angst





Barack Obama on Principles & Values



  • I revere the American flag; I don't refuse to wear flag pin

    if you are going to bash Obama for not wearing something as mundane and silly as a lapel pin, then you better go Bash your messiah Bush for signing a replica flag for a fan in his political audience.

    if you think a lapel pin is the sign of a true patriot, then you have drank the kool-aid of all kool-aids. The true sign of America is freedom. you have the freedom not to wear a lapel pin. Exercising that freedom, makes you an American.
    Being an American is not about being a conformist.

    If you disagree with me - then where the heck is YOUR lapel pin? :shk:

  • The Clinton years were undeniably better than the Bush years

    as a man who lived through both. I agree. Even before my "switch" from neocon to free-thinker

  • Turn the page on the failed politics & policies of the past.
    FactCheck: Obama praised GOP for having ideas, not GOP ideas

    Another commonly buthered quote by the neo-cons. Obama never praised the GOP. He said "good for you - you have ideas" ... big difference.


  • Gave away all Rezko "boneheaded" donations to charity

    I guess Rush Limbaugh forgot to tell his lemmings that little bit of the "rezko conspiracy"



  • 2 years older than JFK when JFK ran for president

    hey - if we're going to bring his name/religion/race into it and compare it with people like Louis Farrakhan, and Osama Bin Laden, then i guess we can only compare him to things like this as well.


  • Don't know if life beyond earth; focus on life here on earth

    Im a christian - so ill focus on the after-life. Dont leave it up to government to decide for me. More Pro-Choice from obama



  • Seek common ground, not a moral crusade


    More Misc About Obama



  • personal history




    FactCheck: Took Rezko's donations, but never represented him

    Dreams From My Father" is an archetypal search

    Obama REPRESENTS something; doesn't have to DO anything

    Won Grammy for recording "Dreams from My Father"

    Real estate deal with felon was "boneheaded" but ethical

    First major politician of the post-Baby Boom generation

    Most decisive moment: transition from high school to college

    High school jock--played football as defensive lineman

    Goal as youth: Leave the world a better place

    Planned on presidency since well before 2004 Convention

    Dreams from My Father originally about Harvard Law Review

    Favorite authors: E. L. Doctorow & Shakespeare

    To understand Obama, understand Hawaii's cultural mix

    Father was first African exchange student at U. Hawaii

    1990: Elected Law Review president with conservative support.

    Met Michelle Robinson at law firm; married in 1990

    Traces ancestry to Jefferson Davis, President of Confederacy

    Lost Congressional primary in 1999 to Bobby Rush

    Personal story is basis of political desire to unite

    Greeted as hero on visit to ancestral Kenya

    Father died in car crash before Barack got to know him

    Born in Hawaii; lives on Chicago's South Side

    Full name: Barack Hussein Obama; family calls him "Barry"

    First black president of the Harvard Law Review

    Ryan quits Senate race amid sex scandal allegations

    Mother attacked for playing with a black girlfriend

    Poverty of political organizers was proof of their integrity.






    But...

    [size=10] YOU KNOW WHAT

    most imporantly, lets evaluate Obama vs Mccain on the aspect of how well they do their job.

    What is their job? To vote based upon the people they represent. more simply put: to vote

    John Mccain has missed 61.8% of the senate votes. he has yet to show up for a single vote on the environment. He attributes his abscence to "the presidential campaign" of which he has had to do nothing. Obama and clinton fought it out for the nomination. it was handed to mcCain

    Obama has missed 43.4% (way less than 1/2) and has had more to do with the presidential campaign thus far than John McCain.

    So Obama is almost 20% better than mcCain - maybe he should make that his new campaign slogan.

    If you missed 61.8% of YOUR job, dont you think you'd be fired?

    Source

    So if we can judge a man by nothing else than his work ethic

    I say McCain fails. Miserably. Being Present for only 38.2 % of the votes.

    Shocking.



  • posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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    Just curious about something.

    How can Obama support 2nd Amendment AND local hand gun bans?

    The two are mutually exclusive. I.e., how does one have the right to keep and bear arms and yet not have the right to keep and bear arms at the same time?



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:28 AM
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    reply to post by jetxnet
     


    My information is not skewed at all

    it comes from an external - unbiased source. you'd know that if you were to visit the link....sadly, i have noticed that with you - you never do



    your information comes from your cerebral cortex

    i think there's a bit of a discrepancy here folks

    i provide quotes and facts to back up my claims

    Jetx provides a 'reply to' and a few keystrokes



    Sorry buddy.



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:31 AM
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    Originally posted by jamie83
    Just curious about something.

    How can Obama support 2nd Amendment AND local hand gun bans?

    The two are mutually exclusive. I.e., how does one have the right to keep and bear arms and yet not have the right to keep and bear arms at the same time?


    Since you didnt visit a single link i posted, allow me to do the grunt work for you




    Q: Is the D.C. law prohibiting ownership of handguns consistent with an individual's right to bear arms?

    A: As a general principle, I believe that the Constitution confers an individual right to bear arms. But just because you have an individual right does not mean that the state or local government can't constrain the exercise of that right, in the same way that we have a right to private property but local governments can establish zoning ordinances that determine how you can use it.

    Q: But do you still favor the registration & licensing of guns?

    A: I think we can provide common-sense approaches to the issue of illegal guns that are ending up on the streets. We can make sure that criminals don't have guns in their hands. We can make certain that those who are mentally deranged are not getting a hold of handguns. We can trace guns that have been used in crimes to unscrupulous gun dealers that may be selling to straw purchasers and dumping them on the streets.



    and



    Q: You said recently, "I have no intention of taking away folks' guns." But you support the D.C. handgun ban, and you've said that it's constitutional. How do you reconcile those two positions?

    A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions.



    Both readily available from my source. if you'd bother to take the time and look



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:34 AM
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    Barack Obama
    Illinois State Senate, 1996-2004; U.S. Senate, 2004-date

    Seems that some would argue 12 years is hardly enough 'experience' in politics to be considered for president


    Andrew, there are 59 districts in the Illinois State Senate.

    Besides doing illegal mortgage operations in his district with slumb lords like Tony Rezko where each benefitted substantially financially, what did Barack do for the State of Illinois in during that time shows results?



    The squat brick buildings of Grove Parc Plaza, in a dense neighborhood that Barack Obama represented for eight years as a state senator, hold 504 apartments subsidized by the federal government for people who can't afford to live anywhere else.

    But it's not safe to live here.

    About 99 of the units are vacant, many rendered uninhabitable by unfixed problems, such as collapsed roofs and fire damage. Mice scamper through the halls. Battered mailboxes hang open. Sewage backs up into kitchen sinks. In 2006, federal inspectors graded the condition of the complex an 11 on a 100-point scale - a score so bad the buildings now face demolition.

    "No one should have to live like this, and no one did anything about it," said Cynthia Ashley, who has lived at Grove Parc since 1994.


    www.dontvoteobama.net...

    And no Andrew, this source of info is no more biased than your info mainly obtained from Obama's campaign site. Enough said.

    So tell us, what did he accomplish there in the Illinois State Senate that is noteworthy (i.e. Community Organizer doesn't cut it buddy).



    [edit on 6-7-2008 by jetxnet]



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:50 AM
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    reply to post by jetxnet
     


    dontvoteobama.com .... yeah there's an unbiased source for ya



    by using your same logic, i could prove all of the follow


    The world is controlled by reptilians

    The Jets we all watched, live, destroying the WTC buildings, were actually remote controlled

    The holocaust never happened

    The earth is flat







    you posting your information from that website is no different than your complaints when a pro-obama person posts from Obama's campaign website


    if thats the best you can come up with - then you really have a lot to learn about how to deny ignorance



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:53 AM
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    Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
    "A: Because I think we have two conflicting traditions in this country. I think it's important for us to recognize that we've got a tradition of handgun ownership and gun ownership generally. And a lot of law-abiding citizens use it for hunting, for sportsmanship, and for protecting their families. We also have a violence on the streets that is the result of illegal handgun usage. And so I think there is nothing wrong with a community saying we are going to take those illegal handguns off the streets. And cracking down on the various loopholes that exist in terms of background checks for children, the mentally ill. We can have reasonable, thoughtful gun control measure that I think respect the Second Amendment and people's traditions."

    Both readily available from my source. if you'd bother to take the time and look


    Well I did take the time to look, and Obama's answer is completely 100% asinine.

    We have conflicting traditions?

    Let's start with that. The 2nd Amendment is NOT a tradition, it's a Constitutional right. This exemplifies Obama's total disregard for what the Constitution means.

    Second, Obama goes on to talk about violence on the streets, and there being nothing wrong with communities taking *illegal* handguns off the streets. But that isn't what a gun BAN is. A gun ban is taking ALL guns off the streets, including guns owned by law abiding citizens exercising their Constitutional right to have a gun.

    Are you serious that you can't see the flaw in Obama's reasoning on this issue?

    And what are the conflicting traditions he's talking about? Owning guns vs. committing crimes?

    And his analogy to owning property and regulating property with zoning laws is completely flawed as well. A proper analogy would be saying we have the right to own property but if a city wants it could pass a local ordinance banning the private ownership of property within a city.

    C'mon Andrew, if there's ever an issue that even a 10-year old can see through Obama's double-talk it's this one. You can't be pro 2nd Amendment and also support gun bans. It just doesn't make sense.

    That would be like saying you're pro 1st Amendment, except some public schools could pass local ordinances where you have to be Christian to attend the school. Or you're pro 4th Amendment except that some towns can seize medical records to see if women had abortions.



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 02:55 AM
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    That is lame Andrew, that site does alot of research to come up with viable facts and concerns about Obama.

    Alot of your information comes from liberal blogs and barackobama.com. Is it not fair to say that the info on barackobama.com is what Barack wants on his site and that he had full control of the information on there?

    In other words, is everything on barackobama.com factual and reflects the canididate and his actions?

    So, can everything we read on barackobama.com be trusted? Can we trust the information presented there?



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:03 AM
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    reply to post by jamie83
     


    Sure you can.

    Pro 1st amendment, until it infringes on the rights of another.

    The second amendment, directly from the bill of rights
    states



    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.


    Source? The constitution


    So lets disect this for a moment

    A well regulated Militia:

    Websters defines "militia" as


    1. a body of citizens enrolled for military service, and called out periodically for drill but serving full time only in emergencies.
    2. a body of citizen soldiers as distinguished from professional soldiers.
    3. all able-bodied males considered by law eligible for military service.
    4. a body of citizens organized in a paramilitary group and typically regarding themselves as defenders of individual rights against the presumed interference of the federal government.


    So lets see.

    I dont see the word "individual" in there



    "the right of THE people"

    "the people" refering to the militia

    to protect their freedoms, shall not be infringed



    explain to me, in what way, a 50-cal long range sniper rifle is explicit to protect your freedoms?

    First off, the 2nd amendment is so allusive, that one cannot precisely say what the founding fathers meant by their words.

    Militia does not apply to you and me, because we are not in a militia.

    Odd


    So, instead of denying gun laws

    he supports that each local government is allowed to decide their own laws

    its called pro choice


    you dont educate yourself well enough to understand that the 2nd amendment is


    its a poorly written amendment by our founding fathers that leaves loopholes and speculations

    you say its "all inclusive"

    others say it needs limitations


    Afterall - hunting and protecting ones home can be done, both, with a 12 gauge.

    I have a 12-gauge shotgun in my closet and i keep a loaded 357 under my mattress (call me a hillbilly - dont care)


    Anyone breaks into my home?
    They are going to die, if im given the chance.



    Sorry that you disagree, and you think EVERYONE should have any weapon they want.

    I guess, under your rule, we'd all be toting M4A1's and saluting each other.

    Tell me. What is the purpose of an M4A1 in civilian life, other than killing another human being?



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:15 AM
    link   
    You flip-flop almost as bad as Obama Andrew, then of course, that may be why you like him.


    I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns bottom-lines Barack Obama's true feelings about gun control. I'm not the only one who finds this Obama guy extremist-scary.




    Barack Obama’s position is even more anti-gun than the District of Columbia’s! Obama’s record is clear—his concept of “hope and change” will surely result in anti-gun/anti-freedom changes bringing more hopelessness for the most helpless in our society.
    - National Rifle Association president John Sigler

    First-hand ecounter:

    admin edit: Please provide a link or publication name for your source.





    [edit on 7-6-2008 by Springer]



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:17 AM
    link   
    reply to post by jetxnet
     


    i COULD be the dumbest person on the planet when i think that your post right above this one makes abosolutely zero sense......then again.....

    how does posting this show that i flip flop?


    you posted from where again?

    The national rifle association?

    yeah - they are REALLY unbiased to gun control laws.....


    Keep trying.


    since you and jamie both - refuse to go READ anything posted

    may i refer you to These instructions


    I know that you'll have to do a LITTLE bit of reading, but trust me, for you two, it'll pay off BIG TIME in the long run


    thne - you'll be able to keep up on current events, along with the rest of us


    [edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

    [edit on 7/6/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:23 AM
    link   
    admin edit: see above posts

    I guess Obama said a "staffer" filled out Obama's questionnaire for him - when this was brought to the attention of his campaign staff

    Do you believe Obama and his staff Andrew, that Obama didn't answer this way, but a staffer did for him?



    [edit on 6-7-2008 by jetxnet]

    [edit on 7-6-2008 by Springer]



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:27 AM
    link   
    post removed because the user has no concept of manners

    Click here for more information.



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:30 AM
    link   
    You rarely post your sources either Andrew, at least you don't every time. I'm not plagerizing. It is from an external source and therefore externalized as such.

    Do you believe Obama and his staff who said a "staffer" filled out Obama's questionnaire for him, and that it didn't reflect Obama's views on gun control (see above post)?



    posted on Jul, 6 2008 @ 03:33 AM
    link   
    admin ediit:

    This is AboveTopSecret.com, we focus on the TOPIC

    Not our fellow members.


    [edit on 7-6-2008 by Springer]




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