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Once and for all: Why you should vote for Obama

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posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:12 PM
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Originally posted by SKMDC1
Last month Obama and McCain's tax plans were compared and analyzed by the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. Everyone discussing the two tax plans should consider this required reading:

Look, at least be honest about what you are posting because being dishonest or disingenuous in your first sentence greatly reduces the legitimacy of your remaining post.

To say that the Tax Policy Center is non-partisan is laughable. It's a leftist organization. The Tax Policy Center is a joint venture of the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution both of which are leftists with a liberal agenda. It's fine if you wanted to post this biased report but you should have been honest from the beginning.

Now to the report itself. The one sentence which really stuck out for me was this one:

The Obama tax plan would make the tax system significantly more progressive by providing large tax breaks to those at the bottom of the income scale and raising taxes significantly on upper-income earners. The McCain tax plan would make the tax system more regressive

Large tax breaks for the poor??
In 2003, the bottom quintile paid an effective income tax of –5.9 percent of their income and that the second-lowest quintile paid an effective income tax of –1.1 percent. Their income tax burden was negative, meaning that they actu­ally received a subsidy from Washington on April 15.

The data clearly show that the tax burden is shifting annually up the income scale while spend­ing continues to move down the scale. In other words, the people with the highest incomes are paying more of the tax burden while the poor are receiving more of the spending. Yet the mispercep­tion that the federal government is doing the oppo­site persists.

How much is enough??
The top 50% of income earners pay 97% of all income taxes.
The top 25% of income earners pay 86% of all income taxes.
The top 1% of income earners pay 39% of all income taxes.

I mean damn, how much more are you going to steal from them. How about getting rid of some useless government social programs and reduce the tax burden.
When will it stop. The top 50% pay 97% of all income taxes!!!
How much more do you want people to pay? Do you want the top 50% to pay 100% of the tax rate?



[edit on 7-7-2008 by WhatTheory]




posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:30 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory
How much is enough??

Again... The ONLY fair tax is a flat tax. Everyone pays the same percentage. Those who earn more aren't penalized for being industrious and those who earn less aren't rewarded for not earning as much.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


This policy is also called


"the rich get richer, the poor get poorer"

Because you dont take into consideration the rising cost of everything

gas
food
water
housing
vehicles
sewage
garbage collection
electricity
gas to heat your home

those who make little, can afford each of these on this list, less and less with every year that goes by, and with every cent it increases in price


those who make a lot - dont worry about jack, because they pay the same % as a poor person does





really - you call liberals elite'ists?



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:44 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
This policy is also called "the rich get richer, the poor get poorer"

Only by those who are jealous of other people who manage to make more money then they do.

The fact is that this is the ONLY fair way to tax people. One flat percentage no matter how much or how little a person makes. Everyone pays their fair share WITHOUT penalizing the productive or rewarding the unproductive.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


jealousy has nothing to do with it

im curious


why did you avoid this part


Because you dont take into consideration the rising cost of everything

gas
food
water
housing
vehicles
sewage
garbage collection
electricity
gas to heat your home

those who make little, can afford each of these on this list, less and less with every year that goes by, and with every cent it increases in price


those who make a lot - dont worry about jack, because they pay the same % as a poor person does



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:47 PM
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reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


well the reason prices keep getting higher is our own governments fault. It's because they have devaluated our currency so much causing runaway inflation. That's the REAL reason that prices are shooting through the roof right now.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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Originally posted by FlyersFan
One flat percentage no matter how much or how little a person makes. Everyone pays their fair share WITHOUT penalizing the productive or rewarding the unproductive.



AKA an elite'ist mindset



The fact is

you cant have "unproductive" without having "productive"

so should someone be penalized simply because they dont make 100,000,000 a year?

they should be told "sorry, but we're taking 30% of your income, which is essentially nothing to begin with, because we dont want you to buy your kids something for christmas, or fill your car with gas. Save up and buy a bike, hippy"


Yeah.....thats a great way of looking at the problems we face in america :shk:



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Slazer
 


No
the reason prices get higher, is become people want more money.

Hence, the reason gas is so high.

Do you know that Speed Lubes all around the country recently raised the price of an oil change because of the increased price in gas?

Do you also know that a qt of oil did not raise in price


They raised their prices, blamed it on gas, and charged you more

greed





greed is why things get more expensive every year


greed is why our grandparents paid 5 cents to see a movie and a quarter for candy/pop/drink

and greed is why we pay 14 dollars for a movie, and 30+ dollars for pop/candy/drink


Greed is from allowing a free-market to run amuck and unchecked and allow rich peopel to exploit poor people.


And greed is the reason people say "dont tax someone because they make 100 million a year :cry: "



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by Andrew E. Wiggin
reply to post by Slazer
 


No
the reason prices get higher, is because people want more money.



okay, now you're just being ignorant. You're blindly trying to defend yourself.


[edit on 7-7-2008 by Slazer]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by Slazer
 


I realize you're still new here, so allow me to refer you to the T&C

link located at the bottom of this page. Prohibit yourself from posting one liners



on topic:

So you're telling me.....that the rise in cost for everything we enjoy in this planet, is not because people want more money?.........I'm ignorant because.......you are upset that im right?

or....


[edit on 7/7/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:00 PM
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That is a reason yes. But you have to look into the bigger issue of devaluated currency. It's simple, when your currency is much less than it once was, it buys LESS. Just look at a graph, of prices of oil, and our currency value. When the currency goes down, the price of oil goes up, because our dollar buys LESS. It's really THAT simple. Do you really have any idea of how our government and economy works?


Oh and you haven't replied about the Supreme Court case I gave you regarding income tax.



[edit on 7-7-2008 by Slazer]

[edit on 7-7-2008 by Slazer]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Slazer
 


Yeah you're right. I have NO idea how anything works, because im just a bleeding heart liberal, right?

Wrong. im far far far from a liberal. Voting for Obama doesnt make me a liberal


HOWEVER, regardless of how you believe a global economy works

you're still skipping over the list of issues i've posted twice now

do you avoid them because you're scared
or do you avoid them because you know im right


im really curious as to why both of you have avoided it



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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Did I ever call you a Liberal, no. Me myself, I'm not even party affiliated, I don't agree with having parties. But if I had to, I guess I would lean to more Libertarian if anything.

Okay, here's regarding the issue you said. Prices raise just because people want more money. I'm not going to go in depth, but read into how a free market works. But, the truth is, if a price for something gets TOO high to where people won't pay for it, then that company won't make any money, therefore, they will go under.

[edit on 7-7-2008 by Slazer]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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Originally posted by Slazer
reply to post by Andrew E. Wiggin
 


well the reason prices keep getting higher is our own governments fault. It's because they have devaluated our currency so much causing runaway inflation. That's the REAL reason that prices are shooting through the roof right now.


Pretend time:

lets go with that. Fine. Your right. The reason they get higher is because its our governments fault

Now. gasoline has increased in price by 166% since George Bush took over. 166% in 7 years


So, under a republican government, our dollar has deflated so drastically, that lower-middle class to lower-class americans can't afford to do jack anymore, besides peddle to work

meanwhile filthy rich people still do whatever they want


Sounds like a republican (elite'ist) doing to me

So...its time to change that.

Vote Obama.

Fix the problem.

If your'e rich and pay a higher % of taxes than a poor person does

get over it. You're still not hurting.

Redistribution of wealth?

Please. Get over yourself. Its called paying a FAIR SHARE of taxes
30% to a guy making 100 milliion is nothing
30% to a guy making 16,000 is everything







STILL avoiding the list of issues that i will nto post a 3rd time, are we?



[edit on 7/7/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:10 PM
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again, even if I agreed upon the idea of Income Tax. What gives YOU the right to take money from someone else JUST because they make more than you. I sound like an elitist? You sound like a thief.

Oh and 30 percent of 100 million is 30 million dollars. That's A LOT of money to anybody. And if someone made that perfectly legal, what right does the government have to take that much money from him? It does not matter if he'll still be fine without that money, it's the fact that he earned that money and does not deserve for ANYBODY to just take it away.



[edit on 7-7-2008 by Slazer]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:13 PM
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reply to post by Slazer
 


Its nto taking money
Its called paying taxes

its been happening for quite a while now, before America ever even existed.

You pay taxes to live in the country you reside and do business in.

You are still avoiding the facts
and instead conjecturing in the realm of eliteism

It is elite'ist to say "i make 100,000,000 a year, and should not have to pay EQUAL FAIR SHARE taxes, i should have to pay the same as a guy making 16,000 a year"

yeah.....sounds REAL "fair" to me...... :shk:



and since you dont wish to discuss the issue, and cover all topics involved, and instead resort to name calling and derailing of the issues

i bid you adue

im done with this discussion


have fun tlaking to yourself, because im not listening anymore.

If you decide you want to DISCUSS the ISSUES, we can. Send me a u2u

[edit on 7/7/2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:16 PM
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There is NOTHING wrong with paying legal taxes, like corporation, sales, gasoline, tobacco, and property tax. IT'S THE INCOME TAX I AM TALKING ABOUT HERE. And with legal taxes, everyone should pay the same. So get outta here about fairness, LIFE IS NOT FAIR. And like I said before, I only make 35000 a year. So how am I AN ELITIST???



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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I'm just gonna say one last thing, it's funny how you think that I'm avoiding the issues when I am REALLY talking about the issues. I just don't think you really understand how fiscal and monetary policy affects things in our economy. It sound to me like you just try to talk about the "social" issues while being totally ignorant about the actual policies in our government.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 03:48 PM
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Originally posted by WhatTheory

Originally posted by SKMDC1
Last month Obama and McCain's tax plans were compared and analyzed by the non-partisan Tax Policy Center. Everyone discussing the two tax plans should consider this required reading:

Look, at least be honest about what you are posting because being dishonest or disingenuous in your first sentence greatly reduces the legitimacy of your remaining post.

To say that the Tax Policy Center is non-partisan is laughable. It's a leftist organization. The Tax Policy Center is a joint venture of the Urban Institute and Brookings Institution both of which are leftists with a liberal agenda. It's fine if you wanted to post this biased report but you should have been honest from the beginning.


It's been a long time since I've seen someone be as wrong as this in public. There are such things as "facts" that help when debating a topic and the FACT of REALITY is that The Brookings Institute and the Tax Policy Center are not affiliated with any party and will criticize equally on both sides, making them: non-partisan. If you read the analysis you'd see that it's just as critical of Obama as McCain in many respects.

If you choose to believe an alternate reality then that is your decision to be willfully ignorant, but do not try to convince others to jump off the same cliff of blindness that you choose to dive from.

From the Wiki:


Media descriptions of Brookings range from liberal to centrist...


The Brookings Institute

Certainly sounds like "leftist organization" to me. The article goes on to say despite the apparent left leaning reputation the BI has been quite supportive of Bush. Regarding the rest of your post:




Look, at least be honest about what you are posting because being dishonest or disingenuous in your first sentence greatly reduces the legitimacy of your remaining post.



posted on Jul, 7 2008 @ 04:04 PM
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Originally posted by SKMDC1
It's been a long time since I've seen someone be as wrong as this in public.

You are entitled to your wrong opinion but the fact remains that it is a liberal biased organization.



The Brookings Institute and the Tax Policy Center are not affiliated with any party

I guess you are reading what you want to see because I did not say they were affiliated with any specific party. You do realize that you don't have to be affiliated with a specific party in order to have a bias right?


If you choose to believe an alternate reality then that is your decision to be willfully ignorant, but do not try to convince others to jump off the same cliff of blindness that you choose to dive from.
From the Wiki:


Media descriptions of Brookings range from liberal to centrist...

Oh well, if Wiki says so it must be true.

Sorry that you are ignorant of the facts which are plainly obvious. Try thinking for yourself instead of letting Wiki or some other liberal group tell what to believe.



Certainly sounds like "leftist organization" to me.

Good, I'm glad we agree.




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