Are Catholics Christian?

reply to post by passenger


Well, Comforter has had a very interesting life.
But I do have to disagree.
The freemasonry that the founding fathers practiced was independent of the European Freemasons.
They were eventually absorbed, but at this time, they were practicing independence.
They were also determined to keep Catholicism from taking over their country, so maybe in the larger picture, it makes not so much difference in this question.

reply to post by krzyspmac


To bad you didn't stay in your religion long enough to learn a little facts about Christianity.
To start with the very name is an oxymoron.
Either you are Roman or you are Universal.
Also you could argue, the Church began to be what it is today, at the First Counsel.
That was near Constantinople, so if anyone could claim to be the original, it may be the Eastern Orthodox.
So, the Church split like 500 years before the Protestant Reformation.

Just harking back to my comment on Peter not being the Rock,coz i've found the verse i wanted to use in my argument....


1 Corinthians 10:4
And did all drink the same spiritual drink:for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them:and that Rock was the Christ.


Don't think you can get any clearer than that!

That is using Paul NOT Jesus so if you are a Paulian believe so without projecting his will as that of our Lord's. I say this only in looking into the history behind the man known as the Liar - Paul AKA Saul, friend to Agrippa the third.

John first speaks of him in Chapter 18.10 "Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant (a Pharisee) and cut off his right ear. The servant’s name was Malchus.

Malchus was a Greek king and a way for John to get the word to the other follower of Yeshua/Jesus that it was Saul (named after a king) who later changed his name to Paul. Paul spoke of a wound on his cheek - this was from the partial healing he received, as he never was a true believer but a liar.

"Beware the yeast of the Pharisee!"- Jesus

In reply to other postings:

1) Why did I use Jacques de Molay for an example of Catholicism’s butchery, atrocity and abomination?

He and his Templar’s were JEWS! Of course they refused to worship the cross.

In particular the cross “t” instead of the correct one “T” this one was the first sign of Judaism. The top was added to the cross at a later date under the pretence by Catholicism that it had to have room to hang the sign “King of the Jews” from. Of course this is not so. Any casual glance at a crucified figure shows the body hangs low enough to hang a bulletin board between the victims’ hands.

From the time of the Crucifixion on Christians following both the bloodline of Jesus and Judaism were hunted down and murdered at the hand of Rome’s Universal Church of Cults from the Vatican. Even the bloodline was not spared. The Templar’s hoped to bring about the second coming or “millennium of peace” by placing the bloodline of Jesus on the throne of David in Jerusalem.

They were poorly educated medieval knights they were doing their best from what I read. If only public education created by Judaism had survived the destruction of the Romans and their pagan church. By forming banking the Templars made it safer for many pilgrims traveling through out not just the Middle East but the world from their time on.

The qualities that should distinguish a brother Templar was listed as: friendship, union, submission, discretion, fidelity, prudence and temperance. In contrast the last Pope they served made a statement about making love with a young boy is no more a crime than rubbing ones hands together.

The origins at of Masonry are within Judaism not the worship of demons as was the slander placed on them by Rome’s Church. It is true they were corrupted by influence from English royalty. The Scottish Rite was less effected by in any case Thomas Jefferson left the order later in his life saying to the effect that they had lost the spirit that once guided them.

Now Jefferson also had a problem with “Saint Paul”. He commented while putting together his red Bible that it was like removing diamonds from a pile of dung.

An excellent book on the Templar’s and de Molay is THE SECOND MESSIA: TEMPLARS, THE TURIN SHROUD AND THE GREAT SECTRET OF FREEMASONRY (Barnes & Noble).

I suspect the Vatican is more upset at the artifacts held by the Scotch Rite more than any thing else.

2) Rockefeller? Hard to squeeze that person’s bloodline and organizations into a discussion on Catholicism, OR IS IT?
“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.” George Orwell: 1984

Any research into cults will show a layered circle of control and knowledge exists. Some members on the outer rings of such a group my never know the very center that are in actual control.

I can see the Roman Catholic Church at the outer ring bringing in followers next the Santeria and at the center extreme Satanist. All three of these “separate” cults share many common grounds. Not the least of which is child abuse! A particularly disgusting crime as far as Jesus/Yeshua is concerned.

3) Back to my belief the Jesus/Yeshua was and is a Jew. Any person wishing to follow Him should spend less time around golden artifacts and more learning what He and Judaism teaches.
The more I study into Judaism the more sightings of Jesus/Yeshua I see. It is a wonderful sense that His Father and He had placed these treasures there to be found by any that look.
If a person follows the Whore of Babylon or one of her “many sisters” they are not following Jesus/Yeshua and can not truthfully be called “Christians”.

Now back to my death:

My two bodies stretched out face down on the floor with hands grasped together straight out before the White Throne. The body of our Lord was covered in a shield made of the Judges of Israel, a crystal of great thickness. This gave Him the look of a giant. He had reviewed my life from deep inside my memories. Looking down at me I was filled with true fear. He spoke in a manner that pierced deep into that fear. “What is the latest of Judaism?”

This I could not answer for I was ashamed to think of my parents being Baptists I had been to other churches but never looked at Judaism. I had failed to use my free will to look for the truth, I had failed myself and Him.

As He spoke again “of course you” the shield opened and became a dozen Jewish Judges of old. “I thought you were one of us” He said lovingly. Next the two bodies became one and met Him in a cloud. We embraced He whispered “I look forward to when this is all over that we may play together again.” With this I remembered many things of a past life in heaven.

First and most important the Son of G-d can remove memories from those he judges. He can not remove memories from either Himself or His Father. The crimes against children are those that weigh most on His heart. In the final days of our age these crimes will increase if we do not, as His followers take action. The second greatest crime as judged by the White Throne is to not take action in ones deepest beliefs. He expressed disgust to me that His followers by and large complain of all sizes of misgivings yet refuse to take action and make change. It was my failure to bring to justice those that had tortured, abused and murdered a small child that gave that group time to poison me and in so doing brought me to the Son of G-d and on to His Father.

To allow the Vatican to pay it’s way out of child abuse is to carve into the Lords heart a wound that will never heal. His followers should flee from under the golden crucifixes of this false faith.

Thanks for coming back on this thread and explaining yourself some.
You have to realize this stuff is slightly difficult to understand.
I have a great respect for you, as a person.
I am sure you have an insight into things that are beyond the normal human experience.
But I have to think that in the end, you are still a human, like us.
I am not ready to bow down and worship you, exactly, but I will make an attempt to understand what you are saying.
So, don't get upset if your message is not immediately accepted by all.
I have gone back and read a lot of your previous posts and I know you are not insane.
I have to accept what you say at its face value.
I would have to go through a lot of changes to come into complete agreement with you.

reply to post by Comforter


The last rant was a doozy! You accuse Catholics in general of sexual child abuse, a mortal sin that is condemned by Church teaching, although that does not seem to be the case in the Jewish Talmud, where it is promoted.

Freemasonry is evil, period. Jacques de Molay was a heretic Christian engaged in occult practise. Many, but not all, of the Templars were corrupted by Jewish kabbalism. Yes, Freemasonry does have its roots in Judaism, but in a false Judaism condemned by Christ when he addressed some Pharisees of his time as belonging to the synagogue of satan. These are the traditions of men condemned by Our Lord, not the traditions that Saint Paul speaks of. Your flights of fancy have no solid scholarship as a basis for your absurd accusations. Frankly, I think you are a very deluded person. I see that you also claim to be reincarnated, a pagan belief, and to have seen the Father, whom no man has seen and lived. Check out Moses. Are you a Freemason? You supported their allegation that Jesus never died and ressurected, when you gave credence to the so-called 'bloodline' nonsense.

"They were poorly educated medieval knights they were doing their best from what I read. If only public education created by Judaism had survived the destruction of the Romans and their pagan church. By forming banking the Templars made it safer for many pilgrims traveling through out not just the Middle East but the world from their time on.

The qualities that should distinguish a brother Templar was listed as: friendship, union, submission, discretion, fidelity, prudence and temperance. In contrast the last Pope they served made a statement about making love with a young boy is no more a crime than rubbing ones hands together."

The European universities were established by the Catholic Church, you dunce.

What Pope are you talking about? Please supply the alleged quote in full and your source, because I believe you are a liar.


[edit on 27-7-2008 by Robhaidheuch]

[edit on 27-7-2008 by Robhaidheuch]

reply to post by Robhaidheuch


I have to think that kabbalism is a serious threat.
There may or may not have been some sort of legitimate use for it in some distant past.
People who are trying to use it today are actually using a false substitute for the original kabala and are becoming the tools of Satan.

reply to post by Robhaidheuch


No problem I have read to those who lack the ability before:

Pope Boniface VIII: on the subject of homosexual acts stated they are
"no more a sin than rubbing your hands together".

I do find it strange that you can't read yet find some way of writing books. Have some one read you the book I listed on my last post that you've proceeded to rant about:

THE SECOND MESSIAH TEMPLARS, THE TURIN SHROUD AND THE GREAT SECTET OF FREEMASONRY by Christopher Kight and Robert Lomas from Barnes and Noble books.

No I am not a Mason. Thank you for being concerned.

Now to show my concern for you.

Since the Malaysian/Indonesian volcanoes have not yet blown there is still time to decide.

After that the moon will appear red and the stars will not be visible.

Then a release of toxic gas from India’s border followed by the gathering of children. After the children are brought to Florida the same gas will be released from South Florida.

This memory shall stay with the Son of G_d and forever leaving His heart broken.

This can only be prevented if true Christians take action to protect the lambs from being slaughtered.

There are other signs I have already spoken of on other postings one I have not is the US military will leave Israel in her hour of need and assault Korea. There a warhead fired by the US navy to cut Korea from oil will be launched and will fail.

Many will be the deaths in Israel, attacked from the south by two large armies then from the north by one, as though by a scorpion. Then will the tower be seen by the world for a single day. A day when no one will die.

There is and shall always be The Father (creator of all that is and ever was touched by light) and his Son (who in the body of Yeshua/Jesus found out what being human is and the experience made Him a more understanding Judge) who has set on the throne and shall soon bring a new harvest to a new world being built by His Father even now.

A vine of light connects over 270 worlds and soon one more.

The rain falls on evil and good on wheat and weeds. The weeds will be thrown in the fire and that energy reused. What is left will be placed in bags and for eternity shall be in darkness unable to rest with nothing but their evil deeds to keep them company and these souls shall exist forever bent and twisted in dark bags. Their bags shall form a sphere and this shall block an end of the vine of light to prevent the "Sons of Darkness” from entry. No memory of the “weeds” existence shall remain among those inhabitants of heaven. It will be to the living as if they never were. No memory of them or their deeds shall exist, except for the memories of the Father and Son, who shall forever remember all things.

You are correct that no man could stand being with G-d it was hard enough in angelic form. You see angels can and do see G-d.
He has the ability to place others inside His thoughts. So when he thought of placing the spirtual remains of evil people into dark bags and rolling them into a shpere I was in that very place. A way He has of cutting arguments very short.

As for Moshe or Mosses, he has come to me in times of need. Strange he looked to be in his early thirties at most. His hare lip is still with him and he is dressed in goat skin with a shaw with black and red lines. Mosses looks at me as a shepard looking to see if this lamb is one of his.

The "good" shall spend time in a glorified state as an angel. While this means no pain, no hate it also means no thought of sex, breathing, blinking, eating (other than the tree of life which is more a realization that people see the same events differently) and there is no air but a fluid and so "flying" is actually more like swimming. The features of these smoke filled crystal fleshed angels are a mixture of all races here.

Yeshua/Jesus is (an obedient Son) and he is still King of the JEWS and all who accept his love.

Have no hate for the Jewish culture and decide if this world is one you will want to leave before you are called. But once called do not look back.

The Lord left his throne to visit Earth it took a few minutes from Heavens time to equal a lifetime here on Earth.
Peter II sums up a great truth: a day is as a thousand years and a thousand years are as a day.'

Thus "The day of the Lord" and the "Millennium of Peace" will be the same. One day for those outside, to those who miss the harvest. But as a thousand years inside with those who are harvested and with the Lord.
In His tower that is covered in the same crystal shell and will hover four inches above the ruins at Meggido.

I know this is very hard to believe but it is all true.

As for belief, it's about what’s important. It’s about what you choose to believe. By trusting in Jesus as your personal savior you have already made the most important choice in belief.

Shalom

reply to post by Comforter


Ut-Oh!
I live in S. FL and I hope no gasses kill me!
Sounds like I am in trouble.

We are all of the Christ. That makes us all christians of the true meaning. We can believe anything and judge any way but in the end/beginning we will/are all be/ together and whole.
The Christ is all inclusive as we are all brothers and sons of The. We have the power to see differences. That can not change what we are. However, it can delay the will we all share.

Maybe you don't accept the label "christian" for it has certainly been taken out of context in many belief systems. I too refuse to acknowledge that I am "christian" in most cases. That is only because I believe it to be defined incorrectly in the mind of many. Some believe I am atheist because when asked "do you believe in God?", I answer "no". I do have belief but the discussion of God for me is a mute point. For me, such discussions are beyond evaluation and I prefer to speak about that which can be communicated.

You don't have to admit you are a christian to be in The Christ or any related meaning because that is what we are.

reply to post by Comforter


Knight and Lomas are Freemasons. I have read a few of their books. They are not scholars. Their works are historically error ridden, and they have often misquoted Scripture in their publications. They are an unreliable source, and I too would like to know from which document they quote the alleged remark of this Pope.

Patty Patrick Bonds

I was born and raised a Baptist. As a Baptist I enjoyed a close, intimate walk with God. I read His Word and I obeyed Him and He was everything to me. I was willing to follow Him anywhere and serve Him in any capacity. I never dreamed He would lead me far from my upbringing and to a place I would have never chosen to go.

I believed that any Catholic who had genuine faith in Christ and respected the Bible as the Word of God would follow Christ out of the Catholic Church. I honestly believed there were only a few misled Christians in the Catholic Church.

One day I came across the writings of St. Patrick of Ireland. I was looking for historical evidence of his existence, but never dreamed I would discover God’s will for my life. What I found in the writings of St. Patrick was evidence of deep devotion to Christ and a spiritual intimacy with Christ that I knew right away was true Christianity. He was my brother. Yet he was also a Catholic Bishop. This birthed in me a desire to understand Church history and when and where the Catholic Church had gone wrong (since my assumption from childhood was that the Catholic Church was apostate).

(See the Catholic Encyclopedia article on St. Patrick of Ireland )

For the next several months I read the writings of those men who had learned the Christian faith from the very mouth of Christ and the Apostles. I began to familiarize myself with the culture and time of the Apostles and realized that Christianity in its earliest days was not Bible centered (indeed most of the NT was not written yet and later was not available for the masses) but Tradition centered. I learned that when the early Christians went to Church their services were not sermon centered but centered around the Eucharist, the Lord’s Supper, which was not seen as a symbol but as the actual Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ. It was guarded and protected as such. Not a crumb was to be lost nor a drop spilt. I was shocked to find that the early Church did not even resemble my own Baptist church.

This led to many more months of earnest study of the Catholic faith. What I discovered is that everything I had been taught about the Catholic Church as a Baptist had been erroneous. Every objection that I had been engrained with since childhood was a falsehood about the Catholic Church and was easily refuted by an honest look at Church history.

By coming to an understanding of the time and culture and beliefs of the Early Church, my Bible began to read very differently. I realized that no document, even the inspired Word of God, can interpret itself. No one comes to Scripture without a grid through which they interpret it. My grid had always been very Protestant and very anti-sacramental. But after investigating the Early Church, I could clearly see that the Bible was a Catholic book; written by Catholics, for Catholics, canonized by the Bishops of the Catholic Church and preserved for Catholics for millennia to come.

I also discovered that I was one of many Christians devoted to Christ and willing to follow Him anywhere even at great personal loss that were reversing the mistakes of the Reformation and flocking back home to the One Church Christ established on this earth. I discovered through a series of books called, Surprised by Truth, that I was one of many that were headed home to Rome. (My story has been included in the third edition if you would like to learn more).

May God grant you the openness to see Him in His Holy Roman Catholic Church.

reply to post by Robhaidheuch


Reading what you posted seemed innocent enough, someone looking at things a little diferently.
a mental exercise is one thing.
I found another story by this person about the actual conversion ceremony in the church. disturbing.
I do not find that inspiring and I find myself cringing to think about it.
It may seem beautiful to some people.


[edit on 28-7-2008 by jmdewey60]

reply to post by jmdewey60


I don't see anything disturbing in the ceremony for admittance to the Catholic Church. My wife was raised a Jehovah Witness, and after we were married for twenty three years she decided that she wished to become Catholic. The ceremony required Baptism in the name of The Holy Trinity, and the taking of the vow that she rejected Satan and all his deadly lies. Why is that disturbing?

Scripture Tradition Magisterium. Dr. Scott Hahn


www.catholic.com...

reply to post by Robhaidheuch

But after investigating the Early Church, I could clearly see that the Bible was a Catholic book; written by Catholics, for Catholics, canonized by the Bishops of the Catholic Church and preserved for Catholics for millennia to come.

I wonder what was investigated,because the more i look into the early Church the more i find that it is less like the Catholic faith;i've already pointed out the teachings that go against the Bible so i won't list them again.


In my investigations i've found that the early church and its teachings have a lot more to do with the Gnostic beliefs and those that were considered heretics by the Holy See.

reply to post by Robhaidheuch


I looked up the name of the author in Wikipedia and found a link to her other story.
I was trying to comment on it but had to stop myself and delete half of what I had already written.
I do not want to be offensive.
I just had a serious reaction that I did not expect.
I think it has to do with my upbringing and how the Church was associated with the anti Christ.
I have no problem with people who were raised Catholic.
But having someone who was taught to abhor it like the devil, then join it, disturbs me.

reply to post by jakyll

In my investigations i've found that the early church and its teachings have a lot more to do with the Gnostic beliefs and those that were considered heretics by the Holy See.

As much as I disdane Gnostics, I have to reluctantly agree with you.

reply to post by jmdewey60


Why have so many people who had a similar mindset to your own become Catholic? Obviously the Catholic Church was not what they perceived it to be. I suggest you read Dr. Scott Hahn, a Lutheran who was horrified when during his research he discovered that the Catholic Church was not the satanic organisation he had always believed it was but the true apostolic Church. If you are not persuaded by his erudition then I have little chance of presenting to you a stronger case for the truth of Catholicism.

reply to post by Robhaidheuch


You have already persuaded me on a few points but there would be a huge gulf between my accepting certain truths, and putting my self into subjection to a whole system that I know is completely impervious to mine, or any number of people's influence.
Especially when I see all these other, evil influences gaining ground against it.
I would never become a Lutheran or Baptist, either.

[edit on 29-7-2008 by jmdewey60]