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Are Catholics Christian?

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posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 



Originally posted by jmdewey60
That may have certain applications.
I found another text that is on the topic of restrained speech.
It can be used in a negative way.

Psalm 50: (New International Version)
18 When you see a thief, you join with him;
you throw in your lot with adulterers.
19 You use your mouth for evil
and harness your tongue to deceit.


But this is not quite correct and to the issue at hand. The quotes that I gave were about people judging others and verbally abusing them - as happened to me. The passage that you give is about using your speech, or lack of, to justify thieves and adulterers and yourself for joining in.

What I was doing was defending myself from being called an idiot. I was quoting scripture in my defense of speaking my opinion on scripture - not to justify thievery or adultery. Also, bear in mind that I was called names after I quoted scripture. Pointedly, I received no scriptural rebuttal to my scriptural quotation but received name-calling instead. Didn’t the same thing happen to man called Jesus??? Didn’t he use scripture to admonish the Pharisees and they responded to it by calling him a drunk, a heretic, demon-possessed, etc.?

So, who’s debating in a more Christian fashion here? Myself or my accuser? And furthermore, isn’t this the tactic that has been such a hallmark of the Catholic Church? How many that told the truth and defended themselves with the scripture, as they saw it, were burned at the stake by the Church?

All being said, this again to the point of the OP: Are Catholics Christian? I don’t see that the Church has acted in a Christian manner - at least as far as the Bible would provide - and neither has my adversary here. Yet they continually claim to be sole bearers of the title “Christian’. I use the scripture and the Church/Accuser uses epithets and claims they won the battle, because they have defined me as a “heretic”. But that’s the Catholic way and I shouldn’t have expected any less…




posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


"And you still haven't answered any of my comments about priests and worshiping false idols.Are you finding it difficult to back up the fact that the Catholic Church has been going against the Laws of God? Are you hoping that if you talk about gays long enough i'll forget that your arguments are failing??"

What bit is it you don't understand about the difference in meaning of the words 'worship' and 'veneration'?

I mentioned homosexuals because they impact upon my religious freedom. You must have a strange idea of Christianity if you do not recognise indulging in homosexual sex as sin. If you don't get the fundamentals right, you'll never get anything right.

I'm still waiting for you to produce historical evidence for an English Robin Hood. You will have to produce a candidate who answers to at least more than twenty points of reference that are consistent with the description of the legendary hero, before I take your candidate seriously: Wallace has more than fifty.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 04:58 PM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

Click here for more information.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:05 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:18 PM
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reply to post by Robhaidheuch
 





What bit is it you don't understand about the difference in meaning of the words 'worship' and 'veneration'?


I believe i made the difference quite clear in my previous posts....you are the one who has yet to back up your claim that is ok to pray to Mary etc when the Bible strictly forbids it.


Homosexuality should have no bearing on your religious freedom,if it does its only because you have allowed it to.


And just out of curiosity are you aware,coz most Christians aren't,that destruction,apostasy etc will happen not because of the actions of non-believers,but because of the actions of those who believe.

Hosea 13:9

O Israel,thou has destroyed thyself

Hosea 14:1

O Israel,return unto the Lord thy God;for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.


You should be more concerned with your fellow brethren than you should be with those that do not believe.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:20 PM
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reply to post by Robhaidheuch
 





So are you declaring yourself homosexual?


As Oscar Wilde once said...."i have nothing to declare except my genius!"



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:21 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


"Do you pray? Do you do so in Jesus' name;the Saviour of Mankind,the Rock of Salvation or do you do it in Mary's name"

I pray The Lord's Prayer, the Prayer to St. Michael, I pray for the Holy Souls, I pray The rosary wherin I meditate on the gospels. I like to pray to my Heavenly Mother that wonderful scriptural prayer the Hail Mary. It goes like this:

Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you. Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.
Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death, Amen.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:22 PM
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reply to post by Robhaidheuch
 



Originally posted by Robhaidheuch
I sitill believe you're an idiot.


And I still believe you haven’t rebutted any of my quotes from scripture.

You seem to have danced around it and taken up the issue of Robin Hood! Well, that’s certainly relevant to the discussion of the Origins of the Catholic Church! But I don’t know what I’m talking about… What an idiot I must be for trying to base an argument on Christianity upon BIBLE verses. Surely the calling card of someone who can’t think very clearly. But your subtle, razor-sharp mind has found the answers to these issues by discussing people like Robin Hood. It almost makes me think I lobbed a Holy Hand Grenade that you ran from.

P.S. As to the issue of homosexuality: The Catholic Church also frowns heavily on masturbation; it’s a sin (read your Catechism) and requires Confession. Don’t you find it a little perverse that a man is supposed to go into a little dark box and tell another man, in close proximity and anonymity, about his touching himself? And then he is given a ‘punishment’ for it! Isn’t that a little homo-erotic, don’t you think?




[edit on 17-7-2008 by passenger]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


Oscar Wilde, a misguided man who saw the error of his ways, and was admitted to the bosom of the Holy Catholic Church on his death bed.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by passenger
 


"P.S. As to the issue of homosexuality: The Catholic Church also frowns heavily on masturbation; it’s a sin (read your Catechism) and requires Confession. Don’t you find it a little perverse that a man is supposed to go into a little dark box and tell another man, in close proximity and anonymity, about his touching himself? And then he is given a ‘punishment’ for it! Isn’t that a little homo-erotic, don’t you think?"

Homo erotic? Only a homosexual would know that. But I do know it offends God.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:30 PM
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reply to post by passenger
 



originally posted by passenger
and yourself for joining in.

I do not recall that.
I found Robhaidheuch's comment rather harsh, when I first read it.
I do not think I am joining him.
I just think, if he finds that sort of speech necessary, it might be.
I do not know.
I do not necessarily want to take sides.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:32 PM
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Another thing that rules out Catholics as Christians is Original Sin.

The life and death of Jesus made the sin of Adam & Eve obsolete.

Romans 5:18-19

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.


Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:37 PM
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reply to post by Robhaidheuch
 





I pray The Lord's Prayer, the Prayer to St. Michael, I pray for the Holy Souls, I pray The rosary wherin I meditate on the gospels. I like to pray to my Heavenly Mother that wonderful scriptural prayer the Hail Mary.


I see this as an admittance that you are going directly against what the Bible teaches.If Michael and Mary can take your prayers to God then what is Jesus for? What was the point of his sacrafice? What was the point of him teaching that only he is the way to God and only he can intercede on behalf of man?
Even your beloved Paul agreed with this!









[edit on 17-7-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by jmdewey60
 


reply to post by jmdewey60
 


I sort of thought that. My impression of your posts is that they have been generally unbiased. You have been pretty fair. But it was the quote that you used that gave me an impression that you might be playing the ‘cherry-picking-verses’ game. Now that I reread it, I see what you were trying to get across. And it is a good point. Continue on - we need someone in the middle, somewhere, to provide some perspective here.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


"What was the point of him teaching that only he is the way to God and only he can intercede on behalf of man?"

True, Jesus is the only way to God, as He is God. Are you telling me that no one can pray to God on my behalf?

Saint Michael, the archangel, like all angels has free will. He can come to the aid of anyone who asks for his help, if it is consistent with God's will. He is efficacious against the fallen angel Lucifer who constantly attacks humans.

[edit on 17-7-2008 by Robhaidheuch]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:51 PM
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reply to post by Robhaidheuch
 





True, Jesus is the only way to God, as He is God. Are you telling me that no one can pray to God on my behalf?


Prayer can only go through Jesus.
If i was to pray for you i would not address Mary,a saint or an angel,i would address God and i would close in the name of Jesus.



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:54 PM
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reply to post by jakyll
 


"If i was to pray for you i would not address Mary,a saint or an angel,i would address God and i would close in the name of Jesus."

So you can pray for me, but the Blessed Virgin can't?



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 05:59 PM
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reply to post by Robhaidheuch
 



Originally posted by Robhaidheuch
Homo erotic? Only a homosexual would know that. But I do know it offends God.


This is sooooo delicious!

I don’t know what a homosexual would know, other than what my gay friends tell me (and I don’t condemn or judge them for such thoughts either). But I bet the Catholic Church would know lots! How many Priests know alllllll about it? How many know about the forbidden delights of touching little boys? And how many Bishops and Cardinals and Popes covered up for them? How many engaged in it? How many enabled it and facilitated it and protected those that did it? We know of those that made the news - but how many more escaped Justice? Don’t you DARE lecture me about the evils of indulging in homosexuality when you are coming from a Church that practically institutionalized it! The Catholic Church knows far more about homosexual practice and procedures than I ever will. At the very least, they allowed it to flourish and accepted it. That is the Truth and I’d like to see you claim otherwise



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 06:07 PM
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reply to post by Robhaidheuch
 





So you can pray for me, but the Blessed Virgin can't?



Prayers are to be addressed to God only.

If Mary wanted to pray for you that would have to be her choice,you can't make her pray for you.

Jesus takes our prayers to God,he sends his answers through the Holy Spirit.
By asking Mary to do this is to usurp the place of Jesus.





[edit on 17-7-2008 by jakyll]



posted on Jul, 17 2008 @ 06:14 PM
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reply to post by passenger
 


The fact that the church leaders protected the men guilty of these sick crimes i still find hard to believe,though looking at their history i really shouldn't.

They can sit down and debate whether a gay man should be a Bishop but they can't sit down and discuss handing all these men over to the police.

Hopefully every single man involved in keeping these pedophiles safe and free to continue ruining lives will find themselves hurtling towards that popular lake of fire everyone's so eager to throw homosexuals into.






Don’t you DARE lecture me about the evils of indulging in homosexuality when you are coming from a Church that practically institutionalized it!


FYI though-they institutionalized pedophilia not homosexuality,there's a big difference between the 2.





[edit on 17-7-2008 by jakyll]



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