The Truth About Satanism

Your personal religion does not represent all truths under this label. There are different forms of satanism or worship of Lucifer, etc. The Church of Satan is a seperate branch, founded by Levay, a freak. Your thread title is misleading. You should have titled it "Join Church of Satan".

You haven't dispelled any myths for me, sorry to dissapoint you. The witch burning excuse is getting really old, as are the remaining excuses you try to use as reasons why you've been given a bad name and are always having to cry "we're misunderstood".

I don't need to join a satanist group to learn how to fend off psychic vampires. Secondly, on that note: sure there are ungrateful people, always asking, never giving, but perhaps they give you something else you fail to recognize? Because you're taught to disregard it.

You forgot one thing: Satan attempts to deceive with lies and illusions and preys upon the weak.


"VIII Satan represents all of the so-called sins, as they all lead to physical, mental, or emotional gratification!"


Just go around and do whatever your heart desires, when you are misled there is no judgement after death.
What will you do when you were wrong?
Eternity is a very, very long time.

reply to post by Nebel


If you have information on other groups and would like to share it with us then by all means start a new thread. I will most definitely stop by and take a look. I am not trying to squash any opposing view points, I just respectifully ask that you take it elsewhere as this thread is meant to inform those who know little or nothing about LaVeyan Satanism. This thread is not meant to defend Satanism or my beliefs from people who have some kind of grudge against it.

If you want to debate it's legitimacy then why don't you and Pellovoisin created a thread entitled something like "The Lies of LaVey" and I will join you in there. We can debate until we turn blue if you'd like.

I just don't want this thread to degenerate in the typical way and have it filled with nothing but people who wish to cause trouble and argue without contributing anything productive to the discussion. I've been on ATS a long time and I've seen it happen over and over and over.

This thread has already been hijacked enough.

If anyone has any questions regarding Satanism, or they would like to share their personal experience with Satanism, or would like to expound on and add to anything I've said in a positive and productive way I will be more than happy to participate in a discussion.

reply to post by MikeboydUS

Gerald Messadié, author of Histoire Générale du Diable*, makes a good case that the Devil was created by Zoroaster. It was Zoroaster, he argues, who first conceived the bipolar opposition of good and evil as represented in two absolute deities: Ahura Mazda, the holy spirit, the principle of goodness, light and fire, and Ahriman, the principle of darkness and wickedness, the original devil.

Zoroastrianism was the first 'monotheistic' faith and the prototype for all those that followed. The term 'monotheistic' is really a misnomer, since in all these faiths God is -- indeed, must be -- opposed by another deity of great power, namely the Devil; you cannot have good if you do not have evil. The more God you have in your religion, the more devil must infest it**.

When Zoroaster invented God, he also invented the Devil.

*See my signature
**Again, see my signature


[edit on 4-7-2008 by Astyanax]

reply to post by violet


It's obvious you haven't read the whole thread nor are you very informed as to the subject.

I never mentioned "the burning times" or any form of Christian persecution of Satanists. I've never said I was trying to convert anyone, in fact with the attitude and disrespect you've displayed in your post I wouldn't want you joining anything I am a part of.

No one is keeping you here, please close the door on your way out.

reply to post by Astyanax


What you've mentioned is one of the root principals of my personal philosophy. That due to the necessity for balance in creation there must always be dark to oppose light or creation will cease to exist. I believe the universe to be mainly composed of equal portions of opposing forces. Light, dark, order, chaos, creation and emptiness. One must be present for the other to be present. However I do not label these opposing forces as one be right and one wrong or one evil and one good. They are equal and both make up the ultimate whole.

This is also in a sense what the 9th Satanic Statement refers to:

IX Satan is the best friend the church has ever had, as he has kept it in business all these years

As an agnostic who feels a sort of draw to spirituality, there are many things about satanism that I agree with.

The problem Satantism is that it seems to obnoxious. The main website does not need to have people in animal masks and the like. I realize that one of the interest points to many is the false idea that it is based on judeo-christian entities but as a student who hopes to become a professor and or professional today, telling people your a satanist is nothing but trouble.

I just remembered one oof the funniest things I learned at christian grade school!

My sixth grade teacher who was a devot and superbly ignorant christian would tell us satanist "horror" stories of people selling their soul to the devil.

The sad part was he reinfirmed the idea in all of us that if you sold your soul to the devil anything you asked for would come true but he would take your life as compensation!!!

As I always questioned religion, telling me that the devil had actual physical power while i was lefy wondering what the hell god has ever done should have been extrememly embarrassing to him!

Originally posted by Zenskeptical
As an agnostic who feels a sort of draw to spirituality, there are many things about satanism that I agree with.

The problem Satantism is that it seems to obnoxious. The main website does not need to have people in animal masks and the like. I realize that one of the interest points to many is the false idea that it is based on judeo-christian entities but as a student who hopes to become a professor and or professional today, telling people your a satanist is nothing but trouble.

I understand what you're saying when you say it seems obnoxious. I actually felt the same way when I was first introduced to it. However, it was only that I didn't understand the nature of LaVey and the early days of the Church.

To put it bluntly, those pictures of LaVey in capes and people in animal head masks aren't real. They're really just for fun and theatrics. Much of LaVeyan Satanism still holds dear the old carnival world and the mystique of the circus. Organ music was common in the early days but shared equal time with calliope music ( a calliope was essentially a smaller organ and was used in circuses and the like, you've heard one before)

When you look at it with the mentality that these people are serious black magic practitioners who think these animal masks will give them power it does seem silly because it's an incorrect assumption.

Satanism is very concerned with Aesthetics or basically the look and image of something. Image is very important in many aspects of Satanism, it is why there are black robes, naked women, daggers and pentagrams in many of the photos and ceremonies.

If this were the 1920s the Church of Satan might have used a carnie barker shouting "Hurry hurry hurry!! Come see the devil himself!! Live and in person!! Just a nickel! Hurry hurry hurry!!!" and I'm sure that inside the tent would've been some horrid creation made of pieced together animal carcasses with a person sticking their head through a tarp to make the thing look alive. It would've been lit with lanterns painted red and featured creepy organ music. The audience would've stood there, slack jawed and horrified and gladly have paid another nickle next week.

Personally, this is one of my favorite aspects to Satanism as I have always loved the circus, I've even known a few performers, one of whom taught me to juggle. I spent every New Years Eve for a long time at the circus, drinking champagne with the performers under the big top.

Just a quick note, I'm going to be away for the weekend and may not be able to respond as quickly or as thoroughly as I have been. I only ask that you please be respectful to the topic and purpose of this thread and please try not to fill it with posts denouncing Satanism or LaVey while I'm on vacation.

Thanks guys

I, for one, want to commend the OP for posting factual information about this subject that is not ridden with editorial hyberbole. I find it ironic that some posters are pointing to a handful of crimes committed by people who claim satanic influence and then using those examples to generalize an entire segment of the population. How many people have killed in the name of the Hebrew God? Does that mean that Christians are inherently horrible people?

Of course not. Generalizations based upon isolated events is always a poor choice and reflects a lack of thinking.

From childhood until I was twenty years old I lived in the Bay Area of California (Fremont) was highly exposed to the works of AZL. I owned copies of the Satanic Bible and the Satanic Rituals.

It is mind numbing to me that so many people have so many misconceptions about this practice which, at its very core, is completely about living life to the fullest and NOT harming others, unless they seek to cause you harm. I have known many Satanists over the course of my life and, to be frank, they were much more laid back and considerate people than most I have encountered.

The nonsense about ritual murder, human baby-fat candles, and ritual sex abuse is just that. Nonsense. Ghost stories and urban legends. Nothing more.

I should point out that my own spiritual growth led me away from Satanism years ago. But I never did get over my surpise about how misunderstood the actual practice is.

Starred and flagged!

reply to post by Hefficide


Thank you for your kind words. I have to agree that it is stupifying to realize how ignorant people are about it when the CoS has been so open in an attempt to dispel such ignorance. When I first thought of starting this thread I feared people wouldn't be interested as all the info I've posted is readily available all over the internet. I must admit that even I did not expect people to be so close minded and mis-informed but then again I suppose I was guilty of the Satanic sin of Solipsism.

Silly me to think that people would search for an objective truth and not just google until they find something to fit their agenda.

Edit to add: Although I must say that I do find the personal accusations of my being the anti-christ, the devil in disguise or a demon quite entertaining. However, what surprised me is that I only get those accusations when I'm completely polite, rational, logical and friendly.

[edit on 4-7-2008 by Shadowflux]

reply to post by Shadowflux

Due to the necessity for balance in creation there must always be dark to oppose light or creation will cease to exist.

True indeed. But this may be a psychological rather than physical necessity: an outcome of the way we apprehend reality, an artefact of the way our brains have evolved.

I believe the universe to be mainly composed of equal portions of opposing forces.

The human artefact known as percieved reality is certainly composed in that fashion. However, in the larger view...

Light, dark, order, chaos

...are mere relative differences. Nowhere in the universe is it ever absolutely light or dark, perfectly ordered or utterly chaotic. As far as the laws of physics are concerned, these are mere variations in magnitude of some physical quantity or other. As for...

creation and emptiness

...they are in no sense the opposites of one another. Creation in the theistic sense is a religious conceit. If you're using the word as a metaphor for 'the universe', then there is no opposition with emptiness; the universe is all there is, and there is nothing beyond it -- empty or full -- with which it can be compared. And again, in physical terms, there is no such thing as emptiness -- 'empty space' is full of endless quantum fluctuations, in which matter and energy are forever being created and destroyed. However, the statement...

One must be present for the other to be present

... otherwise known as the Principle of Complementarity, is a real truth, even though it is, I believe, in some essential sense a purely human truth.

However I do not label these opposing forces as one be right and one wrong or one evil and one good.

Agreed. Good and evil are not the same and right and wrong, anyway. Good and evil are religious inventions; right and wrong are imperatives in natural moral law. They partake of the Principle of Complementarity, but neither pair is to be identified with any other pair of complementary opposites. Actually, it is a mistake to identify any specific pair of opposed complementaries with any other pair or with the Principle of Complementarity itself. Yin and Yang represent the Principle, but do not -- contra some decadent interpretations of Taoism -- represent actual opposed complementaries such as black and white, male and female, etc.

my beef with Satanism:

the rule says, "do not kill NON HUMAN animals unless in self defense or for food". this means they think it is okay to kill another human for whatever reason deemed worthy. that is sick and a total disregard for the value of human life.

it's all a big game anyway, i mean look at them ... the one guy doesnt get along with the other guy at the evil church of Zetan, so he parts ways and makes the .. TEMPLE OF SET! based on some old egyptian crap.. that way he gets to revamp the rules on the super diety! are you getting it yet?

Satanism is a hollow "religion". They have no surviving ancient texts from BIBLICAL times .. so its make up whatever you want, throw some aleister crowley in there, maybe some h.p. lovecraft, and add a necronomicon, blend at high for 30 seconds, and you've got it.

reply to post by Astyanax


I agree that the current popular conception of Satan probably comes from the dualistic Zoroastrians, but this didn't really pour into Abrahamic faith until Christianity. My best guess is the influence came from the Mithraic Cult that existed across the Roman empire and from which many concepts were incorporated into the Roman Church.

Judaism on the other hand has always looked at G-d as absolute and supreme. Isaiah 45:7 is the best example of this:

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil; I am the LORD, that doeth all these things.

There is simply no room in Judaism for some kind of dualist counterpart. Satan in Judaism is shown in the book of Job to be completely submissive and subservient to G-d. He can not do anything without G-d's authorization. He is shown to be an adversary of humanity though, which is quite different than being an adversary to G-d.





[edit on 4/7/08 by MikeboydUS]

I will start off by saying that I am friends with several members of the Church of Satan and I proudly admit these people are a very respectable group who adhere to the information as posted in the OP. Even my wife, many years ago, was a member of the CoS.

However, like any broad-based religion, there are groups who call themselves Satanists who do not fit into the neat little category as presented. Many of those groups have already been mentioned in this thread. And just because they do not fit into the LaVey ideas of Satanism, does that mean they not Satanists? Because if you say they aren't, then a sense of elitism on the concept of Satanism creeps up.

Take the snake-handler churches within Christianity. Many will consider them extremists of the religion. But if you ask them, they will proudly claim they are Christians. Roman Catholics and Baptists both claim to be Christians but they are worlds apart. (I only make this comparison within Christianity because it is easy for people to understand.)

The same holds true with groups within Satanism. Just because they take the foundation and reassess it to their own interpretation, does this make them less Satanist. Less LaVey Satanist, sure... but the Lavey path is not the end all to be all of Satanism.

And while it is easy to say these other groups are just fakers or posers or not true believers in Satanism, that would be the same as Baptists saying Roman Catholics aren't christians because they were't "saved" according to their beliefs.

Sorry, but LaVey did not write the book on Satanism. He wrote his perspective on it (and most was either while high or drunk). This is what is widely followed today by many. But not all. If Satanism, as stated, predates LaVey, then the foundations are not necessarily the current beliefs within the Church of Satan. The CoS is then just an interpretation of an older belief system - and as a mere interpretation, it does not necessarily make it correct.

Who then could claim the right to the name of a Satanist, one who follows the books and teachings of LaVey or those who follow a different path, perhaps one established millenia ago? Or do all qualify? You can either stand as an elitist and say your beliefs are the only beliefs OR you can accept that there are other groups that adhere to another Satanist belief system.

This is not bashing the Church of Satan, but there ARE many different groups that consider and call themselves Satanists. And many of these groups are, unfortunately, the evils the media and those stories make them out to be.

I know Satanism to a fair degree... and it is easy to paint a rosy picture of what they stand for. But not all churches and groups and individuals are like that. Yes, the Church of Satan is a respectable organization. But if one claims that Satanism is ONLY LaVey Satanism, then I'm sorry, I cannot agree.

MM

Originally posted by Shadowflux
reply to post by Pellevoisin

 

Pellevoisin, I am asking you kindly to please take this drivel elsewhere, you are disrupting my thread, annoying me and I fear I may have to report you (the first time i've ever done that) if you do not stop.

I have spent significant time and effort on creating and maintaining this thread and I would not like to see it ruined by some one who is here solely to cause trouble.

If you do not agree with me, do not believe anything I have posted, or do not like Satanism then leave.

If you feel a burning desire to bash Satanism and prove that the whole thing is secret demon worship and leads only to murder and mayhem then please feel free to create your own thread as I did.

I will only ask you to leave once.

I am so disinterested in your juvenile threats. There is a free exchange of ideas here, and no one has a free zone in which to banish those who see things differently.

ATS does not exist so you can post a thread and then keep out everyone who has a different idea.

If you want to report me for contributing to the "truth about satanism", just do it. Don't make threats.

The truth about satanism: "Beasts of Satan" cult in Italy -- the following excerpt from one of several BBC news reports

Beasts of Satan

Finally Volpe confessed and led the police to where Fabio and Chiara were buried.

Michele's hunt was over, but the revelations were just beginning.

One of Fabio's school friends, Mario Maccione, confessed to having beaten Fabio to death with a hammer.

He also revealed that the boys had been part of a wider satanic sect called the Beasts of Satan.

It was revealed Andrea Bontade, a drummer, had been terrorised into committing suicide.

Soon, other mysterious deaths were being linked to the Beasts.

This is yet another window on the many faces of satanism which help to reveal the truth of the darkest parts of the Left Hand path.

[edit on 4/7/08 by Pellevoisin]

reply to post by Pellevoisin


This would be more than applicable if you would just demonstrate a direct connection between the "Beasts of Satan" and any organized religious instituion.

I think you will find that what this actually represents is nothing more than a group of troubled youths who started a little club and included Satanic imagery and referencing simply for shock value.

I assume, from your posts, that you are probably a Christian. Would it be fair for me to then, by proxy, blame the entire Christian population because Christian zealots occassionally feel the need to bomb abortion clinics or shoot the doctors who work there? Of course these random acts are not representative of all Christians, or of the faith that they engage in. Your examples fall under the same heading.

Not to mention the fact that media loves to sensationalize things, and the word "Satanic" sells papers. If a kid goes bonkers and happens to own a book that falls into the realm of the occult, or even has a heavy metal CD collection, the term "Satanic" usually comes into play.

Again, generalizations, towards ANY group of people, is bigoted and shows a very closed mind.

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by Pellevoisin

 

Again, generalizations, towards ANY group of people, is bigoted and shows a very closed mind.

My posts regarding satanic crimes are not generalisations. They are documented court cases where the satanic religion of those responsible was a factor in the crime committed.

As far as posting anti-xian stories, have at it. I could care less. Increasingly christianity is defined in popular culture by its sins not its saints. And truths about crimes should never be covered over in order to protect a religion whether that's islam, shinto, hinduism, buddhism, christianity or twentieth and twenty-first century varieties of satanism.

reply to post by Pellevoisin


My point is that people of ALL faiths commit crimes. Blaming an entire sect or segment of people for the isolated acts of a few simply does not stand up to scrutiny. It is misleading and invalid.