I have to express my thanks to Shadowflux and SOD for this very interesting and informative thread. Stars to the OP.

I was raised in the southern baptist traditional church. In the baptist sect, it is fire and brimstone, do or damnation. I have been to other sects of baptist and they can be very different, much like the debate of LeVayen and Spirituals in this thread. So, I find it quite easy to follow how the single religion has the skews.

I have since turned away from all organized religions. I experienced most of the judeo-christian, hindu and toaism. I have actually invited jehova's in to talk, because I am curious...always. I love to see how individual's take on a same religion can be slightly askew from one another based on personal interpretation and recounting.

As to the origin of this thread, I know enough about satanism to respect it as another religious devotion. I have only met a few and they were fun to be around, humorous and respectful, and left me with no ill will feelings at all.

As agnostic (devoted to being devoted to none), I love exploring the shallows of many ways of thinking, faiths and beliefs. More often than not, I can get more out of just having a conversation with someone rather than reading some text. It is the inner person that counts and their system of belief only enhances their own natural personality. Most people will devote to a religion that suits them personally so you can tell alot by the members of the faith.

I think anyone that reads the offerings of this thread and cast disparaging judgement just because it is devoted to a system of beliefs contrary to your own should spend some time reviewing that belief system. Intolerance in a stone on the path to madness. It is destructive both internally and externally.

Originally posted by splendourinthegrass
The Church of $atan was a great big publicity stunt in order to scam people out of money. Today even LeVay's daughter Carla won't have anything to do with it because it is just a scam.

Is that why Anton LaVey allowed the Church of Satan to be taxed? Or that people that are LaVeyan Satanists don't have to be in the CoS? LaVey also believed all religions should be taxed.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
I want to know what the OP thinks of the ONA, Dragon Rouge, and other "darker" sects of Satanism. Do you think they should not call themselves Satanic? What about the Yezidis or the Luciferians?

Well, I have to admit it's a tough question since I have to claim a fair amount of ignorance on some of those subjects. I clearly don't know as much about them as I would like and I will make it a goal of mine to research them further. I also make it a point to not comment on things I have little knowledge of.

I believe it is fair enough to call one's self Satanic if indeed they worship Satan like the Spirituals do or if they follow the teaching of the Church of Satan as the LaVeyens do, or I suppose if one were to follow an off shoot of the two afore mentioned systems.

I feel as though it would be detrimental to affiliate one's self and one's belief systems with a term that carries with it both a certain connotation and a fairly concrete definition (in modern usage) if the term does not really apply.

As for the Yezidis I have this quote from Wiki:

In the Yazidi belief system, the world was created by a god, and the world is now in the care of a Heptad of seven Holy Beings, often known as Angels or heft sirr (the Seven Mysteries). Preeminent among these is Melek Taus (Tawûsê Melek in Kurdish), the Peacock Angel. According to the Encyclopedia of the Orient, "The reason for the Yazidis reputation of being devil worshipers, is connected to the other name of Melek Taus, Shaytan, the same name the Koran has for Satan".[8] Furthermore, the Yazidi story regarding Malek Taus' rise to favor with God is almost identical to the story of the jinn Iblis in Islam, except that Yazidis revere Malek Taus for refusing to submit to Adam, while Muslims believe that Iblis' refusal to submit caused him to fall out of Grace with God, and to later become Satan himself.[9]

also

Yazidis believe that Melek Taus is not a source of evil or wickedness. They consider him to be the leader of the archangels, not a fallen angel, and therefore comparable to the Christians' Lucifer,

I believe it would be inappropriate to call the Yazidis Satanists as they do not worship an evil or dark God in the same sense as a Spiritual Satanist might. I feel that calling Yazidis Satanists may verge on an insult to their religion depending upon the person using the term.

It seems to me that Yazidis are closer to Dualist than Satanists. I believe there are other religions that believe in a higher Creator God and a lower, almost Demi-God who is in charge of the Earthly realms. I do suppose it varies from group to group as to whether this Demi-God is indeed dark and evil or not.

As for Luciferians I suppose it depends on what aspect of Lucifer they worship. Personally I like to make a clear distinction between Lucier and Satan as Lucifer means "Light-bearer" and Satan means "Adversary" so in essence a Luciferian system would be different from a Satanic system.

Here's more from wiki on Luciferians:

Luciferianism is identified by some people as an auxiliary of Satanism, due to the popular identification of Lucifer with Satan. Some Luciferians accept this identification or consider Lucifer as the light bearer aspect of Satan, and thus could properly be called Satanists. Others reject it, arguing that Lucifer is a more positive ideal than Satan. They are inspired by the ancient myths of Egypt, Rome and Greece, Gnosticism and traditional Western occultism.

So I suppose, when it comes to Luciferians, it really depends on what their personal or religious archetype of Lucifer is and whether or not they believe him related to Satan.

As for the Dragon Rouge, from what I saw on Wiki there was little to point to them being specifically worshippers of Satan over other deities and it seems too mystically oriented to really be tied with LeVayen Satanism.

Sorry for all the edits but I was doing a bit of that research I promised.

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Shadowflux]

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Shadowflux]

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Shadowflux]

Originally posted by wheresthetruth
It is the inner person that counts and their system of belief only enhances their own natural personality. Most people will devote to a religion that suits them personally so you can tell alot by the members of the faith.

Great quote and I agree completely.

Your post details part of the reason I wished to create this thread, to harbor further understanding among people of differing faiths and belief systems and to help educate those who may be interested in a much talked about subject.

One of the major values in Satanism is creativity because it stops mediocrity. Satanist don't wish the entire world to be Satanists because that would lead to a very mundane mediocre world. Variety breeds creativity and therefore life must have variety or the world will wither and die from lack of creativity. Creativity is what breeds new thoughts and ideas, new inventions and technology. If we became one herd of gray suited, shaved head, identical followers of the same thoughts and ideals humanity would never survive.

Satanists love variety

[edit on 3-7-2008 by Shadowflux]

WOW. I ..... can't .... believe.... I read the whole thing. Interesting, and I have to admit to being surprised once or twice. All I can tell you is it's not for me, but I'd defend your right to do as you wish spiritually with my life. I think I already have. Well presented OP.

Cheers

That Lavey shtuff is just comon sense. Like Nihilism.

Originally posted by argentus
WOW. I ..... can't .... believe.... I read the whole thing. Interesting, and I have to admit to being surprised once or twice. All I can tell you is it's not for me, but I'd defend your right to do as you wish spiritually with my life. I think I already have. Well presented OP.

Cheers

And I couldn't ask for more than that. Thank you for taking the time to read the whole thing.

Satanists aren't out to recruit new members or convert others to their path. LaVey has stated, you are either born a Satanist or your are not. This is exactly how I feel about it as well, there is no need to convince others as the philosophy and teachings will either ring true to them or not.

Originally posted by TurnOnTuneInDropOut
That Lavey shtuff is just comon sense. Like Nihilism.

I believe it is simply common sense in many ways. I was actually a nihilist myself for a long time but I believe someone once said that Nihilism is only the beginning of a new path in your life. The destruction of all we understood leaves us with a vacuum we inevitably fill with a better working theory and philosophy than the one we had abandoned before Nihilism.

My hockey team just signed a guy named Satan...does that mean our city is done?!?!?!?!?11111oneone!

i understand what your trying to do but i myself was once a satanist and the 10 commandments although not as evil as some would think are pety and childish

Originally posted by bugs_n_recovery
i understand what your trying to do but i myself was once a satanist and the 10 commandments although not as evil as some would think are pety and childish

I'm afraid I'm confused, do you mean the Judeo-Christian 10 Commandments, or the 11 Satanic Rules or the 9 Satanic Statements or the Satanic Sins?

what do the Chaos Magickians say?

'satanism is for pussies'

Here, this should help quell any mention or accusation of sacrificing to Satan or killing for Satan or any other gibberish of the like. This is a quote from current CoS leader Peter H. Gilmore:

Satanists do not believe in the supernatural, in neither God nor the Devil. To the Satanist, he is his own God. Satan is a symbol of Man living as his prideful, carnal nature dictates. The reality behind Satan is simply the dark evolutionary force of entropy that permeates all of nature and provides the drive for survival and propagation inherent in all living things. Satan is not a conscious entity to be worshipped, rather a reservoir of power inside each human to be tapped at will. Thus any concept of sacrifice is rejected as a Christian aberration—in Satanism there’s no deity to which one can sacrifice.

Most Christians are living the life of a Satanist and dont even realize it!

Most practice the religion of Satanism under the guise of Christ. I have not met one Christian that did not behave exactly like a Satanist if they could get away with it!

I think the difference between the two is honesty. Satanists are honest.