Obama's Birth Certificate Confirmed VALID!

Originally posted by SRTkid86
reply to post by grover

 

yea, if you are white, and you odn't like Obama, you better put on that shoe cause you are a racist mofo

Outside of hysterical supporters, no one has made that claim. The only people making that claim are racists who are attempting to use it to cover their racism.

Please, SRTKid, tell us why you are so obsessed with the idea that his birth certificate is not real. What do you hope to prove? What do you think his real birth-certificate says?

Originally posted by jamie83
I think this thread's title violates the T&C.

It's misleading. Obama's birth certificate isn't even what's being discussed. A "certificate of live birth" and a "birth certificate" are not the same document. Further, Obama's CoB wasn't confirmed VALID! Not by a long shot.

Why is this type of thread allowed?

Then every thread with a title based on opinion is. By your idiotic logic, you would then agree that every thread that proclaims it as fake also violates the T & C.

And though you will probably choose to ignore it, they are the same thing:

Short forms, known sometimes as computer certifications, are not universally available, but are cheaper than photocopies and much more easily accessible. Limited information is taken from the original birth record (the long form) and stored in a database that can be accessed quickly when birth certificates are needed in a short amount of time. Whereas the long form is a copy of the actual birth certificate, a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate, and is usually titled a "Certification of Birth" or "Certificate of Birth Registration". The short form typically includes the child's name, date of birth, sex, and place of birth, although some also include the names of the child's parents. When the certification does include the names of the parents, it can be used in lieu of a long form birth certificate in almost all circumstances [2]. Nearly all states in the U.S. issue short forms certifications, on both state and local levels

SOURCE In short, Certificate of Birth IS THE SHORT FORM OF A BIRTH CERTIFICATE.

Get that? IT IS A BIRTH CERTIFICATE! You cannot get much clearer than that.

Further, look at the small print at the bottom of the document provided by the Obama campaign. What does it say?


[edit on 27-6-2008 by SaviorComplex]

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Hey BH ... I have been doing research on the smears and origins.

You know how I showed in the other thread "flip flop" that the entire list jetx posted was lifted from an article by Rush Limbaughs brother?

Well concerning the "Malik/muslim" thread. I just posted there. It turns out that the article that was cited at the israeli insider was lifted from an old AP story and was hacked and changed to fit the smear..what Malik said was Barack is a "Christain" the IsraeliInsider story changed it to "Muslim" and gave it a new headline. So while we were debating what Malik knew of Barack's upbringing....the answer was he never said it at all.

I know it is off topic, but it speaks to the legitimacy of these smear threads. One after another they are found to be outright fraudulant among other things.

Originally posted by maybereal11
I know it is off topic, but it speaks to the legitimacy of these smear threads. One after another they are found to be outright fraudulant among other things.

And speaks to the racist, bigoted desires of those posting them. There is a reason they are not demanding John McCain's birth-certificate, then proclaiming beyond all reason that it is fake. There is a reason why they are not obsessed with proving John McCain was born with a different name or that he is born under a different religion or a secret member of that religion. The very reason these questions are being asked is because Obama is black and has a funny-sounding name.

reply to post by LLoyd45


That thread is about North Korea and Bush easing some of the restrictions from a former order. It is also about one of the most ridiculous examples of how people don't read anything and even the OP did not read what they posted about.

On topic-

As I've mentioned in the past, I'm not voting for Obama or McCain. Having said that, people on both sides have gone way past the point of ridiculous in regards to Obama from both sides. You are ALL starting to look quite foolish. Of course that is normal for every Presidential Election. Both sides lie, both sides exaggerate and neither side has a decent candidate.

These are fun threads to read though, so keep up the nonsense

Originally posted by jamie83
I think this thread's title violates the T&C.

Thanks for sharing.

A "certificate of live birth" and a "birth certificate" are not the same document.

From this post, wherein an ATS member had an email correspondence with Ms. Okubo, she said, "A certification of live birth is a birth certificate in the State of Hawaii."

Is there something about that that you don't understand?

Further, Obama's CoB wasn't confirmed VALID! Not by a long shot.

Confirm. Look it up. And then read the first post in this thread again. "It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," said Ms Okubo.

Again. what are you missing?

maybereal, I know! I saw that, too! LOL pretty insane.

And on the subject of this birth certificate, there's a thread on the Hannity Forums about it where a few days ago, Okubo actually told them that she had the registrar check it and SHE confirmed it.

Originally posted by jamie83
I think this thread's title violates the T&C.

It's misleading. Obama's birth certificate isn't even what's being discussed. A "certificate of live birth" and a "birth certificate" are not the same document. Further, Obama's CoB wasn't confirmed VALID! Not by a long shot.

Why is this type of thread allowed?

i smell hurt feelings

a CoB and a BC are the same thing. Whats the difference? One is a shorthand version of the original.
Consider it paraphrasing. Allow me to write this on a cracker and feed it to you.

Short forms, known sometimes as computer certifications, are not universally available, but are cheaper than photocopies and much more easily accessible. Limited information is taken from the original birth record (the long form) and stored in a database that can be accessed quickly when birth certificates are needed in a short amount of time. Whereas the long form is a copy of the actual birth certificate, a short form is a document that certifies the existence of such certificate, and is usually titled a "Certification of Birth" or "Certificate of Birth Registration". The short form typically includes the child's name, date of birth, sex, and place of birth, although some also include the names of the child's parents. When the certification does include the names of the parents, it can be used in lieu of a long form birth certificate in almost all circumstances [2]. Nearly all states in the U.S. issue short forms certifications, on both state and local levels [8].

Source


oh, and this may help you in your quest to deny ignorance

Definition of Paraphrase

Originally posted by Blaine91555

That thread is about North Korea and Bush easing some of the restrictions from a former order. It is also about one of the most ridiculous examples of how people don't read anything and even the OP did not read what they posted about.

If it's in regards to the situation in Korea, why declare a national emergency here? Can you say sinister intent?

Originally posted by TruthWithin
Wrong. If I am not mistaken Bush's approval rating around 911 reached nearly 90%. He literally had the world in his hands. Then he invaded Iraq and lost the faith and trust of most reasonable Americans.

Obama is not even the nominee yet and we are debating whether an online picture of his BC is valid?

I didn't plan on adding anything else to this but THAT was one of the things I really wanted to point out because people keep saying "You Did It To Bush!! Why not OBAMA?"

It is hardly the same thing.

Bush is largely attacked because of his policies and actions.

Obama has yet to do anything. This is why the attacks against him are a bit far-fetched and extremely speculative. There isn't much to criticize so the attacks go from personal to paranoid. It is mostly assumptions based on fear of what he could do. Those fear based assumptions have been pretty bizarre so far. As is the drive to prove he isn't an American.

What is this supposed to accomplish? Disqualify him as a candidate?

Of course there are some conspiracy threads regarding Bush, don't get me wrong, but the majority of those attacking Bush do so based on his record.

This is reflected in his approval rating.
Those that disprove of Bush aren't doing so without any merit.
They have had him as President for eight years and it has impacted their lives.

- Lee

[edit on 27-6-2008 by lee anoma]

Tonight, 6/27/2008, on KFI640AM in Los Angeles, the evening moderator stated that the Obama Certificate of Birth did not even come close to his Certificate of Birth even though he was born in the same year and hospital as Obama. Layout was different and his was watermarked with the three dimensional seal.

reply to post by chuckk


oh yeah? Are you trying to pass this off as a credible source to say "obama is a liar"?

If so - then im afraid your commentator is gong to have to back it up. so how about providing us with a link?

to...anything that may back up this claim.

[edit on 27-6-2008 by Andrew E. Wiggin]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Further, Obama's CoB wasn't confirmed VALID! Not by a long shot.

Confirm. Look it up. And then read the first post in this thread again. "It's a valid Hawaii state birth certificate," said Ms Okubo.

And on the subject of this birth certificate, there's a thread on the Hannity Forums about it where a few days ago, Okubo actually told them that she had the registrar check it and SHE confirmed it.

Now, ho-o-o-ld on there, BH.

Ms. Okubo made her judgement based on an emailed jpeg. She is not a document expert. She is the spokesperson for the entire Hawaii Department of Health.

This is from politifact.com which is a St Petersburg Times website; the same paper referenced above:

And about the copy we e-mailed her for verification? “When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”

Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”

www.politifact.com...

The registrar saw the same image that Ms. Okubo saw. I, and pretty much everyone else by now, look at the Obama document and can't see ANY evidence, in the blue cross thatch pattern, of an embossed seal. Nor do I see a trace of the registrar's stamp and signature on the reverse even though the "JUN 2007" stamp is quite obvious. Nor any evidence that the roughly 8"x8" document has ever been folded, which it would have been had it been mailed.

www.politifact.com...

I love to solve a good mystery. But, to my mind, this mystery is still unsolved.

By the way, the politifact.com article argues that the certificate is authentic, but their reasoning is along the lines of: "it's real because it wouldn't make any sense to forge it". Here is their rationale:

When the official documents were questioned, we went looking for more answers. We circled back to the Department of Health, had a newsroom colleague bring in her own Hawaii birth certificate to see if it looks the same (it’s identical). But every answer triggered more questions.

Gee, sounds like ATS.

And soon enough, after going to every length possible to confirm the birth certificate’s authenticity, you start asking, what is reasonable here?

Because if this document is forged, then they all are.

Well, okay, then, wait, what... HUH?!

Are they concluding that any document that "looks like" a Hawaii CoLB is, ipso facto, an authentic CoLB? And, by that same token, if the Obama CoLB is a forgery then all CoLBs that "look like" it are also forgeries? Apparently they don't understand what the word "forgery" means.

That being said, here is their strongest point for dismissing the "controversy":

If this document is forged, a U.S. senator and his presidential campaign have perpetrated a vast, long-term fraud. They have done it with conspiring officials at the Hawaii Department of Health, the Cook County (Ill.) Bureau of Vital Statistics, the Illinois Secretary of State’s office, the Attorney Registration & Disciplinary Commission of the Supreme Court of Illinois and many other government agencies.

I don't think it follows that the Hawaii Department of Health, in general, and Ms Okubo in particular, are co-conspirators if the document is fake. Neither she nor the registrar himself, by law, have access to the originals without Obama's permission. They can only give an opinion based on the same evidence that we have access to.

Furthermore, the documents from the Illinois agencies corroborate only some of what the CoLB states. Those being his full name and city and state of birth.

What information would an authentic birth certificate have that a fakery would be trying to hide? There are several possibilities.
Do any of them matter? In my opinion: only the question of his citizenship matters. All of the circumstances of his birth were beyond his control and are still beyond his control.

I tend not to doubt that he was born in Hawaii, mainly because it wouldn't make any sense for him to have born anywhere else. Why in the world would his parents have traveled to give birth in Kenya rather than the U.S.?

Anywho, the bottom line is that the document shows no sign of an embossed seal, the registrar's stamp and signature or any evidence of folding or other handling. It looks less like a scanned authentic document than a digitally created document.

And that, right there, is our mystery.





[edit on 28-6-2008 by Tuning Spork]

There's a reason ridiculous statements like "Obama's birth certificate is a fake!" are condemned to live on the internet and not in serious political discussion.

I'm not implying that Above Politics is beyond real discussion - but this forum in particular seems hung up on conjectured non-issues thanks to a certain few members whom I will not name.

John McCain was not even born in the United States - but no one cares, because he was born on a military base in Panama and is thus a legal citizen. I'm honestly surprised there is not a conspiracy thread or two about that.

If this forum is to become one for real political discussion then it needs some serious revamping. There is enough to criticize all of the Presidential candidates on that are REAL issues for petty squabbles like Obama's birth certificate to be ignored.

Originally posted by grover

The relentless attacks against Obama here on ATSNN are obscene and are done for no other reason the the Republicans and hard right know they are going to lose and lose bad this year unless they can scare people.

They certainly can't run on the issues, after 8 years of bush minor and the neo-con take over they are intellectually and morally bankrupt.

If I could give you more than one star I would.

[edit on 26-6-2008 by grover]

You are right. I am not an American. As an outsider, I also can't believe how some Amercians are reduced to smear campaigns to discredit Obama. And the threads are out there, the baseless personal attacks are relentless. I am giving you a star.

Well if Obama wasn't such a liar on so many issues, maybe we would trust him on this issue.

I don't see why people can defend this guy,

Edit to remove off-topic issue of Obama's credibility. This thread is about his Birth Certificate.

[edit on 28-6-2008 by Open_Minded Skeptic]

Neat little video

youtube.com...

www.justsaynodeal.com...

This aint over yet, I bet, can you imagine if women unite?

Make sure he is the only GUY on the ballot.

seem fami/liar?

‘Chicago Politics’: How Obama Has Used Technicalities to Eliminate Opponents
www.breitbart.tv...

This is ONE reason why I don't trust this guy.

[edit on 083030p://bSaturday2008 by Stormdancer777]

Originally posted by Tuning Spork
Now, ho-o-o-ld on there, BH.

Ok. I'm holding.

Still, she acknowledges: “I don’t know that it’s possible for us to even say beyond a doubt what the image on the site represents.”

I know nothing is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. I'm not claiming that (and at one point I had actually written that in my previous post, but in editing, I forgot to put it back in). I'm just putting information out there. Everyone is going to believe what they believe. And as I have said, we CANNOT prove or disprove this here. And I'm pretty sure there's NO way to prove this document's authenticity to some.

“When we looked at that image you guys sent us, our registrar, he thought he could see pieces of the embossed image through it.”

TS - Please see My Post Here. Just type 43 into the page window and look at the picture. Zoom in. Again, it doesn't prove anything. Just opens up possibilities.

Nor do I see a trace of the registrar's stamp and signature on the reverse even though the "JUN 2007" stamp is quite obvious.

Is it possible the ink from the date stamp is DARK and the "stamper" used quite a bit of pressure, as opposed to the registrar who used an embossing tool with light pressure and also signed with lighter pressure? Isn't that possible? Not saying it proves anything, mind you. But it certainly makes sense to me that a date stamp might show through a document where a signature wouldn't.

Nor any evidence that the roughly 8"x8" document has ever been folded, which it would have been had it been mailed.

That's an assumption.

I love to solve a good mystery. But, to my mind, this mystery is still unsolved.

OK. I can't say the document has been fully authenticated either. Who am I to say that? I'mnot a professional. But I do believe that Ms. Okubo and the registrar have confirmed that they believe it's valid. That doesn't mean it absolutely, beyond the shadow of a doubt, is. I believe that it's beynd a reasonable doubt, though.

That being said, here is their strongest point for dismissing the "controversy":

And I think if people would just read that, they would realize how silly this "mystery" is. It's like not believing in aliens until you hold one in your hands. It doesn't make sense that we are the only sentient beings in the Universe. I haven't seen one or touched one. I don't know beyond the shadow of a doubt that they exist, but I certainly believe that they do, because it only makes sense.

People are holding Obama and his birth certificate to a MUCH HIGHER STANDARD (beyond ALL doubt) than they do for MANY other "beliefs" in their lives... Makes me wonder why.

Those being his full name and city and state of birth.

And isn't that what matters? If people believe his state of birth, what are they after? His religion? The race of his father? What are they hoping for?

YOu know what I find interesting, the Hillary supporters are just NOW reading the facts about Obama and his dirty chicago political machine friends,

NOW!? what does this tell you? it tells me the VOTERS vote unaware, blind,

There has been a huge forum set up, they are ewwwing, and ahhhing over stuff I already knew.

noquarterusa.net...-3289



[edit on 093030p://bSaturday2008 by Stormdancer777]