Wow. Well thanks for coming and contributing to the thread Faceless. You mentioned so much in one post, so I'll try and take it a chunk at a time.
For future posts, could you also address smaller chunks because it's easier to have an exchange. Thanks.
Ok, your first criticism was that God created man just to be a gardener for His garden. Well, God created people for two reasons. The foremost
reason was to, yes, serve Him, but not as gardeners, but as to praise and worship Him and to spread His glory. To obey Him. Secondly, He made us
because of His desire to share His love with a creation, and for us to be benefactors of that love. And about the garden, it's funny to consider
that God even needed a garden. He doesn't need one, and therefore doesn't need gardeners. If He needed one, well He would be here on earth stuck
in one today. No, the purpose of the garden, and of earth in general was to provide humans with a place to live and a means to sustain them. He had
them tend to it because He gave Adam domain over Eden. It was his. If you own something, you need to tend it, whether you own your own business or a
piece of property or car or what have you. To be able to tend the garden was a privilege because God gave it to Adam to command as his own!! Not as
Unless, you are someone who wants no ownership of anything, you should understand this very well. But you say it gives no reason as to
why He created us. These become apparent as you read the bible.
Your next criticism is of God lying to Adam and Eve about their death. First, realize this. Before they ate the fruit, they had not sinned as of
yet. They had intimate contact and communion with God on a level that we cannot experience today. Their spirits were completely pure and not marred
at all. However, in the act of sinning, their spirits lost purity and were pulled away from God. Why? Because if God is to be God, He cannot have
sin or evil Himself, nor be amongst it, even commune with it on that same intimate level. He is the epitome of purity and love. So basically, the
sin set a barrier between man and God. THIS is what God refers to as their death. Death originally means to be apart or disconnected from God, so
this makes PERFECT sense. Also, Adam and Eve lost their immortality, and so would later die in flesh as well. And no, God didn't want to keep them
from eating the fruit to keep them dumb, but so they could remain with Him, because He desires to be with us and love us. So God speaks TRUTH of
Next. The serpent comes along. You say He tells the truth. Only partially. Yes, he's correct when he tells them they will gain certain knowledge.
But the knowledge is of what it's like to be apart from God, as satan was. It's knowledge in the sense that now, Adam and Eve realized they
didn't HAVE to follow God. But, just because a new option for a course of action appears for you in life, doesn't mean that it's automatically
better. Satan decieved Adam and Eve in order to disrupt their relationship before. And as a result, the PARADISE and carefree ways of life were
ENDED for Adam and Eve, because of satan's influence and malicious lies.
Next, let's look at the criticism about the name of Adam. You are at least partially correct of your translation. I know that Adam implies earth or
of the earth. I have not heard of the blood, but that's fine, I give you the benefit of the doubt. You don't think the way God refers to humans is
respectful. Well, a couple points on that. First of all, He doesn't refer to Adam as WHO he is, but WHAT he is. You're right there I guess.
Well, do you not like it when parents refer to children as kids, or child, or son or daughter? If a dad has a few boys, and calls to one of them,
"come here my son", he is not specifying the certain boy. He is using a term that is generalized for all his boys and not by the son's own name.
Secondly, earlier in the bible, God says He made man in His own image. So, if God was disrespecting Adam, then He would be disrespecting Himself as
well. Third, I just don't think this is a big deal.
You're right on about Eve and the rib.
So, let's recap: On one hand we have the all loving God. He created man to share His love with and to have him glorify Him and spread His glory.
He granted Adam control over the garden and animals as an amazing privelege, not to be gardeners, because God doesn't care about having a garden
other than it was necessary to provide a living place for people. His warning of death was truth and warned because He didn't want His intimate
connection with Adam and Eve to be broken. He knew that if they did, they would be cast out and suffering would ensue afterwards. This is evident
today as you look at the way of the world. He did not want this for His creation.
On the other hand, we have satan. The deciever and father of lies. Satan basically ended the paradise that A&E had and the spiritual closeness with
God. He made them aware of choice a they had, but at a fatal price. He made them aware of a choice that they wouldn't have made had they known.
But you know what? Ironically, God uses what satan did for Adam and Eve for His own gain. Because of this choice they now had, love could be
realized. In order to love, it must be from your own heart and will. If there is no way but one to choose, how can that be called love? More like
dictatorship. This is why God even ALLOWED satan to even approach Eve, so that the return He got from people that love Him is genuine and of their
own choice. Choice is an awesome, and terrifying gift at the same time.
So would you have preferred to remain in paradise as God had intended, or do you have preference to suffering of the world by way of satan? God, or
Last comment. Your take on Genesis is very interesting. It's impressive actually because of certain insights you show. But think of this: If
satan were the one who cared for us, and God the one who decieved us, why would God in his deception, give us a chance to hear of the "good" thing
satan did for us in the very book that describes and glorifies Him? A deceitful God wouldn't. That, perhaps, is the most convincing and simple
truth out of all these arguments of why you have it backwards. I hope that helps!
[Edited on 6-3-2004 by SimpleTruth]