NASA hacker appeals to House of Lords to overturn extradition

reply to post by YAHWEH333


first the real men remark is just some one with lil understanding of the amount of work and creativity and pure knowledge and research involved in real hacking. if it werent for hackers you wouldent have half the tech and programs you count on to use the computers and the internet, plus you wouldent have all the neat features that land line fone systems have now (if you count phreaks as a form of hacker and i do). hackers create programs , software and hardware, they create security for networks, they work for corporations , goverments , freelance and for them selves. so this whole "hackers are evil" schtic is just plain ignorance. hackers are niether good nor evil their actions can be either.

just imagine the creativiety, curiosity and over all intelegence it took for draper to realize that a cap'n crunch whistle made a perfect 2600 mhz tone that could get free calles from pay fones.

Originally posted by Shadow_Lord
reply to post by Grafilthy

 

Granted, I believe the NSA warrantless tapping is wrong. However, the government acting to protect itself from possible terrorism is different than a person hacking into military computers to look around.

In addition, the NSA warrantless tappings (regardless how twisted it is) is not illegal. You cannot prosecute and president for something that is put into law by congress.

Wouldn't hiding proof of UFO's and/or Zero Point Energy devices be an act of planetary terrorism.. since its hiding things that could potentially change the world.

reply to post by krill


Hackers, in the sense of the person being discussed in this thread, are like a tax for which you get zero services in return.

They cost Billions a year added on to the cost of doing business.

The businesses have no choice but to add that cost to the prices of their products and services.

Everyone gets stuck with that extra cost.

Hackers are not religious icons or worthy of praise. They cause most of the jobs they end up doing. They are no different than people who paint graffiti, vandalize or make general nuisances of themselves for attention.

Any of the things you say they bring to the table, they could have done without any need for their avocation of criminal acts.

When a hacker enters another's computer, it is no different than breaking into someone else's home. When they take information it is the same as stealing the family silver. When they do damage to the computer it is just live vandalizing property on the way out the door. The mentality is identical.

The only way a Hacker can apply their craft is by breaking the law and violating property that does not belong to them. It's more like a rape than a robbery. They go into people private lives and businesses private files, not to mention protected employee files.

For a small business owner like me, getting hacked and having my files dumped could mean a couple of months income in unexpected costs. To a big business or the government, it could mean millions of files of personal or account information could be on the Black Market.

There is nothing cute about Hackers.

This 60 years thing is a bit much, but any American knows that it actually means less than 20 for a first offense and out in 10 if they act right; maybe less.

It sounds like this guy was using an msdos program like nmap or something along those lines. He regularly referenced dos commands in the youtube vid I posted like "netstat". I downloaded nmap on my old win 98 machine 5 years ago and messed around with it / experimented. It's a pretty scary program although probably not that scary anymore. At least not compared to what is out there right now..

Don't know if anyone has heard about the 1028 bit encryption code program that maliciously hijacks all the information on your hard drive. But it is not very well known from what I gather. From what experts are saying it is uncrackable except by supercomputers (although in the past supercomputers have been built for the specific purpose of decoding such encryption). Ongoing thread where we have been discussing it is here just for FYI:

www.abovetopsecret.com...'

You can also see a part of lastnight's "Colbert Report" at the link below in which an author named jonathan zittrain is talking about his interesting new book "The Future of the Internet and How to Stop it".
www.comedycentral.com...

-ChriS

reply to post by Blaine91555


first i think you are under the false assumption all hackers are black hat hackers and thats simply untrue you have white hat and grey hat hackers as well who perform no malciouse attacks or infiltrations. for example a friend of mine who worked for a security consulting company in annapolis used to wright new virsus just so his company could create anti virus programs and coding against them and similar viruses. he got paid well (72 grand a year plus holiday and performance bonuses this was in 99 ) and performed a service to his company that benifited hundreds of companys that used his employers services and products.

i also know a hacker who did perform hacks that would be considered by many as "crimes" but he did so against hate groups such as the kkk and variouse neo nazi groups. he did this for fun and for practice. was this a nice thing to do ? no but would i fault him for screwing with hate mongers ? no.

now i also knew hackers who were down right criminals stealing programs from companys before they were available to the public and distrubiting them and their source codes to people. he also hacked people he met online and just dident like .

so yes there are hackers who do bad things but there are hackers who do great things as well that help many people. you cant sterotype and judge a large group of individuals on a few peoples actions. for example christians killed people that were pagans as witches so should i say all christians are murders and evil ? no of course not blaming others for actions that arent there own is just stupid.

He did what EVERY single member on ATS, aswell as most of the population of the world would like to do - discover the truth. I think we should all back him up.

Yes, he probably should be sent to prison for breaking the law, but 60 years is really unfair, IMO. He hasn't harmed anyone, physically, and is no danger to society.

I find it surprising that he's actually been sent to prison, I would assume that most people who have done what he did would have "disappeared" off the face of the planet. It's quite clear he's being made an example of.

reply to post by krill


Well said, but to be honset, I really don't count Gary as a hacker. He used a basic program off the internet, so that he could look around. There was no 'hacking' he just used logged on to admin accounts or accounts with no passwords. He caused no damage, necesary or not, he just looked through files, remember, he didn't want to be caught, he just wanted answers. Now I agree, as he does, that he broke the law and should be punished, but he wats to be punished by his own legal system, under his own government (which has already been done), the US are seeking further charges (alot further).

I equate it to someone walking around my house and looking through my stuff, not stealing or damaging, just having a nose, seeing what I'm really about, would I be angry at this? of course, would I seek a 60 year sentence? lol, not a chance.

NOW, if the house he was looking around in was rumoured to be hiding terrible secrets, secrets that could help the world, stop global warming, famine and poverty, not to mention the door was wide open then hell yea, I'd walk through that house with him, reading everything I'd find, from toilet literature to the TV guide!

thanks. EMM

reply to post by ElectroMagnetic Multivers


true hes not a hacker just a script kiddie. but he is being labled a hacker and his exploits are even being labled the biggest hack in history. although i think mitnics hacks were better and even better then mitnic was poulsun i mean the man rigged a radio contest to win ten top of the line sports cars and wasent caught for it .

If he fears being deported, all he has to do is declare himself a terrorist and his deportation will therefore be blocked on the grounds that deportation to a country that supports torture would be a infringement of his human rights. He will then probably escape prison in this country and instead be given a safe house costing the tax payers £500,000 a year. He should then write a book about hacking NASA and US Military computers and I'm sure the government or some judge would only be too happy to promote it, as long as they recieve some of the royalties.

If you can't beat the terrorists & criminals, then you might as well get into bed with them or atleast act like them. These days they seem to have more human rights than us law abiding citizens.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

Governement took over something that dont even belongs to them, this was invented created by TRUE hackers, the term hackers doesnt refer to someone cracking in computers all the time for selfish purpose or stealing money... its someone that vows a cult to the technology and excel at it in terms of knowledge and capabilities... the internet started with 2 computers linked from a university to another for KNOWLEDGE purpose... sorry but the way i see this no offence meant but geeks developed this technology this technology belongs to geeks...

If u step on their terf and you get owned its u'r prob... dont blame it on them for having found a exploit (hole) to crack in and owned your computers ... blame it on corporations and governements that pays compagny like microsoft to emblede backdoors in their OS for TERRORISM SURVEILLANCE types of excuses im a hacker not just a kid pretending to be... I mean im a tech support guy, I get home and stack old PCs running linux making clusters trying to make my own little personal supercomputer get the point...

I got hacked too in the past even tho I can break in about just any OS and do things that would prolly scare some of you... I just respect the skills of the guy and fixed the hole and thats it... there's always someone better then you in this business no matter how good you are and get someone's a step ahead... but bottom line is i hate how hackers are made the black sheep of everything ... in hacking society there's no colors, genders... no race or prejudices made upon just about anything ... who you are is judge according to what you can do...

This guy risked jail so he can provide you what your looking for everytime you log onto this forrum and yet still some people even here call him a criminal well if someone driven by curiosity in constant search of knowledge and truth is being a criminal then ... arent we all...

PS: those are people that should be called criminals...

www.infiltrated.net...

i would put him in jail for hacking the top websites for years and not being able to get any evidence! ;-)

anyway let's hope they find an elegant way to let him off the hook

I agree mitnik's being slightly unreconised and i think he purposely let governement think he did all he did with social engineering skills... I would of done the same in his position...Poulsen was good however I think phiber optik would tear him appart it doesnt matter cuz the best of them all well.... I guess u'll never hear about them lol btw be nice with the script kiddies... today's kiddies are tomorow's gurus ever seen someone that runs before walking?

In my opinion, he performed the crime in the UK, and thus with the assistance of the US justice department, should be prosecuted in the U.K. under U.K. law as it pertains to hacking foreign governments. He is a U.K. citizen, which broke the law in the U.K.

The U.S. wants to make an example out of him, and in my opinion is wrong. That is not justice, its revenge. Sending someone to jail for 60 years is wrong, especially given what he actually did. He didn't damage property, only snooped.

I don't know what the laws are in the U.K., but In my Opinion, he should get 2 years jail, and 5 years probation of staying off the internet, and computers. He'll I would make it so he couldn't even use an ATM machine. Life lesson would be learned. and he could move on with his life. Thats what justice is all about, learning from your mistakes, making the person realize the gravity of it, and making sure it doesn't happen again.

Cheers,

Camain

Yeah especialy knowing that the undisputed champions of internet snooping are the US governement themselves... read about Echelon... this thing monitors everything worldwide PSNT (phone lines), satellite transmition, cellphones, microwaves... even can reassemble a file broke down and sent accross multiple networks... it eavedrop on everything there is...

reply to post by Blaine91555

the internet was born free and should stay free . plus anyone who leaves there companies important info on a non secure computer and connected to the internet is a fool . just the same as if someone would leave their front door unlocked while living in a potentially high crime area of town . it's not a matter of maybe , its a matter of when it's gonna happen .
so for pete's sake dont leave your door wide open and then complain when someone walks right in like they live there .

The only reason they are trying him is as he's not affiliated to another government body.. lets admit it.. this happens as often its not reported is as its not a public citizen and you don't want the general public in any country knowing that YOUR superiors dont have control.. ffs it happens everyday and goes unreported..
The only reason they are hanging this guy is as he's the example they are setting for all of us.. well if it was microsoft he hacked as a company they'd damn well employ him not prosecute him..what stupid moron likens these laws to justice.. they are more of a herd moving mentality and I for one say go and get rooted Im not a sheep..

Extradite the guy to the US.

Go to court.

The US will realize that some embarassing information along the lines of not-much-security, a whole lot of CYA (Cover Your Aftside) has been and will be going on and the whole thing will turn a tempest into a teapot.

He'll get a ride home, hopefully at US expense, start a lawsuit, write a book, go on the TV talk show circuit - maybe, depending on the plea bargain conditions - and in general be able to afford a nice trip to Cancun, Mexico, sit on the beach and sip Pina Coladas.

I don't often make predictions, but there ya go....

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Off on a tangent here, I use to wonder if we had no lawyers, would we need lawyers?

And paraphrased a bit, if there were no virus-protection companies would there be computer viruses?

Every single time when I read a post that starts with something like "He broke the law". It makes me want to scream. The fact that it's written, does not mean that it makes sense, at least not in every case. If you follow laws/policy without thinking about it, then you're doing exactly what they want you to do, be their sheep. Go join the rest of the flock, I for one will not.

Yes what he did was illegal, however don't you think that what governments are doing is even worse yet it is legal?

What I mean by that is that our hard earned money goes towards taxes which our respective governments use towards their own programs. Should those programs not be transparent? Should we not be allowed to know what's being developed and funded by us for their use?

I know that he hacked into another countries systems, but they were obviously left poorly guarded. Instead of punishing him, they should learn as to what he used to get by their security and setup the needed defenses to ensure this does not repeat in the future. Or better yet, eliminate the need for security, by being open about their programs, esepcially NASA which is not a military agency and therefore should have no secrets at all.

Edited for spelling.

[edit on 19-6-2008 by InSanE1]

I hate saying this ... Insane One but what was 9-11..

Originally posted by InSanE1
Yes what he did was illegal, however don't you think that what governments are doing is even worse yet it is legal?

Thanks for your input on my thread!

I couldn't agree more with what you were saying.....

Too many people seem to be missing the point!

Your statement clarifies what I have been thinking. How many injustices must we bare witness to before we change our mindset?

You can molest a child and get away with less punishment than someone who looked into an open window of opportunity! How is this not corrupt?