NASA hacker appeals to House of Lords to overturn extradition

reply to post by NGC2736


That is very interesting that you would talk about an elitist government. I have been pondering the words to the Stone Sour song "Omega" over recent days (last 2 weeks or so).

Sanctimonious pretentious dastardly bastards with their thumb on the pulse and a finger on the trigger
CLASSIFIED MY ___ THAT'S A _______ SECRET AND YOU KNOW IT!
Government is another way to say better, than, you!
It's like ice but no pick a murder charge that won't stick its like a whole other world where you can smell the food
But you can't touch the silverware
*laughs* What luck!
Facism you can vote for
*snorts* Isn't that sweet
And were all gonna die someday 'cause that's the american way and I've drunk too much and said too little when you're gaffer taped in the middle say a prayer save face get yourself together and (*sung in the background* SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING)

Seems pretty relevant.

here's the thing: we are in that wierd place between the need for law and order, and the need for governments to minimize secrets from the people they represent (at least, in america, as that is our system).

So we have Gary, who wants to see behind the wizards curtain. And then we have the secretive wizard, played by the US. Both sides breaking one law or another, assuredly.

Yes, the secrecy is reprehensible. But two wrongs don't make a right. Gary broke the law. he had good reason, and he may prove to be a catalyst (or at least an icon). Such is the fate of those who stand up and are smitten. Expecting him to get a free pass is not realistic. Should he? Maybe. But that is not the way of the world. Gary knew he was breaking the law, and knew there would be consequences when caught. He apparently accepted the risk. He should do some time, period. And then be employed by the US Gov upon release (keep your enemies closer....he knows information and why not bring him closer in?).

Having said that, 60 years? Nah...that is sabre rattling. If they give him more than 10 they will create a Nelson Mandela type icon for hackers and troofers to rally around. If they want to keep a lid on it, surely they must know that they have to be fair, above all else.

reply to post by franspeakfree


There's no indication that the "non-terrestrial officers" database he found on (I believe) NASA's system are of EBEs (that I'm aware of). When taken into account with the names of the (apparent) vessels, which as I remember began with USS (This) and USS (That) like US Navy ships (that don't cross-check with any known or terrestrial craft), it seems more likely the officers are humans operating off-planet rather than EBEs, though I'm not sure. Whatever the results prove to be, this is information that belongs to the people, not the dirty gubment Spooks.

Im all for discloser(even thou I doubt it will ever happen) however when you do something that against the law you must be prepared for what comes.I cant feel sorry for this guy.He knew what couldve happen if caught.Thats the risk you take.It was dumb to think that you could hack in any goverment system and not get caught.

I leave for 5 mins and there are 2 more pages!

Anyway...

These are all fantastic replies and I appreciate the time people have taken to voice their opinions on this matter.

The overall response is about 50/50....

I for one, as I have stated, believe the man is guilty of nothing! Like one member pointed out, he accessed these computers with lacking security, simply opened a door already opened!

Also as another member has posted, NASA is a civilian agency, I didnt realize the government cared about the civilian cyber-national-security.

Thanks for the input people!

reply to post by sos37



FWIW, several states here in the US have passed "Castle Doctrine" laws.

They basically say, if someone breaks into or enters your home without permission you have the right to self-defense and if the intruder bites the dust with a lead pill within, the homeowner is within their rights.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Getting back to the conversation, I'd bet even money that the hacker has some information in reserve to use as a bargaining chip later on.

reply to post by Desert Dawg


You know you make a great point!

He must have!

That would be a good assumption....

I wonder what it is though, also would he get killed in prison (if he went) for anything he might have seen?

reply to post by Shadow_Lord


Man made law should not be held sacred. It changes with enlightening.

From what I have read he is not really a hacker. Just a terribly inexperienced user of hacking tools. If he really was a hacker he would not have been caught so easily.

But the point is, is the punishment at par with the crime? I think not, plus he has already been punished in his native country. So why make an "example" out of him? Perhaps to deter future truth seekers?

Originally posted by IMAdamnALIEN

NASA hacker appeals to House of Lords to overturn extradition

www.scmagazineuk.com

McKinnon, a former sys admin, says he spent two years hacking into a number of US government systems looking for evidence of extra-terrestrial life. He is accused of illegally accessing computers belonging to the US army, navy, air force, NASA and the Department of Defense.

McKinnon is asking the Lords to overturn the proposed extradition on the grounds of an abuse of legal processes by US officials engaging in plea bargaining.

(visit the link for the full news article)

What people are missing here is the legal precedent being set by America, where it can just go into another country and grab any citizen that it wants to accuse of anything.

McKinnon is a Brit, not an American. If found guilty, he should be tried and punished in Britain, not America. If this precedent is approved, then the USA will now be allowed to accuse anyone of anything, and demand their extradition to the USA. All they will have to do is allege you have broken a USA law and whammo -

This is a big test case for several issues, the least of which is what McKinnon actually saw on the computers (unfortunately).

Duncan

Our government views murder as a lesser crime than the infiltration of top secret data. There's no questioning that. This man doesn't seem like he intended to use any data in the form of terrorism, however, because he did violate the law..it is without doubt he will face charges. And no...they won't go easy on him.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by laiguana]

reply to post by nexusmagazine


Don't you know that if a person commited a crime in Britain but it originated here they would extradite also? The crime was perpetrated here from Britain. It works both ways. He should pay just as if one commits crimes in France and Australia both have courts and laws that where broken. If I commit a crime in one state and then move on to another and commit the same or differant crime, I get adjudicated by Both states.

Zindo

I have no doubt that Shirley the six foot four, 300 pound weightlifter cellmate they put this fellow in with; will reveal a new personal truth to him which will make him forget all about his obsession with UFO's And government file servers.

For his sake I hope they put him in isolation. There are no excuses asked for or acknowledged. No justification will count for as much as a ciggarette or a condom while he is playing pick up the soap with the other inmates.

In the immortal words of Frank Zappa: There is only one shower in cell block B, but it don't apply to bobby.

This is all so patently absurd. This is the very sort of thing that makes millions hate the USA. Of course, we know US Americans don't care about that sort of thing: that's why they illegally invade countries and poison and kill the citizenry with so-called depleted uranium.

MacKinnon is so far from a criminal that it is laughable. But there is no laughing. If you don't lock up your house and leave it open during a homes-for-sale tour then someone is going to be waltzing matilda through your kitchen. If the NASA and other files were so incredibly significant, what were they doing on the world wide web where anyone with the tiniest stick of knowledge could type in a sysop password for the Admin. account and do untold damage. Gary MacKinnon did no material damage to any information files.

This is the sort of insanity visited upon us by the fools in ZanuLabour and the Cheney Regency in the States. If Gary MacKinnon is extradited to the States over this, then the USA can take any citizen from any country any time it likes. Admittedly they do that already all the time, but damned are we all if they can do it in broad daylight in a fellow English-speaking nation.

it wasn't hacking because he never had to actually break in to any of those computers .
as for the 60yr sentence , that's ridiculous considering KEVIN MITNICK didn't spend the rest of his life in prison. and he even hacked the fbi and the pentagon .
kevin mitnick
long live kevin and 147.435 mhz ....
60 minutes

[edit on 18-6-2008 by ironman433]

He basically broke the law, yet many of you think it is a good think to access something forbidden. However, when the government tries to access info in our daily lives to thwart suspected terrorists, it becomes wrong.
Even if the government is withholding alien/ufo evidence, is it a bad thing? Perhaps there are reasons why they do what they do that we are unaware of.

Originally posted by sos37

Originally posted by Grafilthy
reply to post by sos37

 

No, that would be trespassing.

He didn't take anything as far as I read.

Oh I see. So basically a trespasser is someone in my house who has no authorization to be there. That sounds an awful lot like hacking doesn't it?

Yes, it does sound like hacking.

I just feel like the guy has already been to court in his country and last time I checked they were a sovereign nation.....with they're own laws. As allies we can work this one out without some guy being locked up for the next half century just for "peeking" at NASA's dirty little secrets.

Did he try to use any information??
I don't think so. If he had it would be a different story.
In this case I just want to see the accounting for all these "damages"...I believe there were none.

how long is the chinese guy who stole secrets from los alamos in jail?

remember, mckinnon didn't participate in espionage. he looked, he didn't touch.

also remember, he isn't a hacker. he just used accounts with default passwords. if you are in a directory looking at images, and then you back out the image name to look at the folder it is in, that can be considered hacking, too, by these standards. it wasn't hacking. he just strolled into hidden, yet wide open doors.

the ones who allowed those accounts to be unsecure are complicit, even if unknowingly. ignorance does not protect from negligence.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Originally posted by bigfatfurrytexan
how long is the chinese guy who stole secrets from los alamos in jail?

remember, mckinnon didn't participate in espionage. he looked, he didn't touch.

also remember, he isn't a hacker. he just used accounts with default passwords. if you are in a directory looking at images, and then you back out the image name to look at the folder it is in, that can be considered hacking, too, by these standards. it wasn't hacking. he just strolled into hidden, yet wide open doors.

the ones who allowed those accounts to be unsecure are complicit, even if unknowingly. ignorance does not protect from negligence.

[edit on 18-6-2008 by bigfatfurrytexan]

Spot on! I heard he used simple perl scripts to search for blank passwords - it would like searching for open doors and just walking into the room for a look.
I think the perl info was on some BBC episode of "Click" if I remember correctly.

Duncan

Real men, don't hack into computers' If he really wanted to find out about all of this stuff, he should've did it like the rest of us, via the internet.

um yes he should be triad he did commit a crime. but the damages the gove claims he performed are hyped up beyond belife. he should get a fair trial by his goverment and when and if he is found guilty he should serve his time and then if he has any skills of use (he claims he dosent and just used available hacking programs and lacking security to perform his hacks) he should be hired as a security consultant just as many hackers and phreaks have in the past. well except kevin mitnik and kevin poulsun they just got boned. even though poulson is the man!

free gary! long live 2600!