HONDA rolls out fuel cell car (HYDROGEN)

HONDA rolls out fuel cell car (HYDROGEN)

money.cnn.com

TAKANEZAWA, Japan (AP) -- Honda's new zero-emission, hydrogen fuel cell car rolled off a Japanese production line Monday and is headed to southern California, where Hollywood is already abuzz over the latest splash in green motoring.

The FCX Clarity, which runs on hydrogen and electricity, emits only water and none of the gases believed to induce global warming. It is also two times more energy efficient than a gas-electric hybrid and three times that of a standard gasoline-powered car, the company says.

Honda expects to lease out a "few dozen" units this year and about 200 units within a year. In California, a three-year lease will run $600 a month, which includes maintenance and collision coverage.

(visit the link for the full news article)

This is great!

Doesn't look like I will be buying a new car till these trials are over.

money.cnn.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

Yeah! the new one looks really cool.

Get them over to the UK I will buy one!

The funny thing is how many people I have read on ATS said this would never happen.

Well, here it is!

$600 a month (tax deductible) lease? Sign me up now please!

Originally posted by Quazga
The funny thing is how many people I have read on ATS said this would never happen.

Well, here it is!

Im one of those people who think it wont happen and still dont. Think about it..its only for a "select few" people and there really isnt Hydrogen stations. I WANT this to happen but I feel Big oil will lobby the government to not put money into hydrogen fill ups or what not.

One small glimmer of hope though when Exxon announced that are selling all their gas stations maybe they are getting ready to max out of hydrogen stations

I think this is excellent news, but the thing that worries me is they are only being leased . Wasn't the electric car in the documentary "Who killed the electric car?" also all on a lease basis only? After some testing the owners could not buy them, and they took the cars back and crushed them. End of story.

Here is a link to a discussion on a new Japanese car that runs on water if anyone is interested.

Japanese invent car that runs on water

Very interesting stuff.

Originally posted by Quazga
The funny thing is how many people I have read on ATS said this would never happen.

Well, here it is!

hydrogen generation and storage needs to improve tremendously before H2 can be used as fuel on a large scale.

Why the Hydrogen Economy Does not Matter

at any rate, people will eventually use the most suitable source of electric energy combined with the all-electric drivetrain developed for vehicles such as this one, so it's definitely a step in the right direction, even if hydrogen will likely become a dead-end.

Originally posted by Hal9000
I think this is excellent news, but the thing that worries me is they are only being leased . Wasn't the electric car in the documentary "Who killed the electric car?" also all on a lease basis only? After some testing the owners could not buy them, and they took the cars back and crushed them. End of story.

Here is a link to a discussion on a new Japanese car that runs on water if anyone is interested.

Japanese invent car that runs on water

Very interesting stuff.

Yes, all new cars, regardless of reason, while in trials are leased. That way the car company maintains ownership.

The Honda, is niiice. The BMW Hydrogen 7 is wicked!

Its simply too expensive, IMO. They may sell a few to people with money who want to be at the front of the lastest trend, but for the average consumer, its just not price competitive against the competition in its size class.

Originally posted by vor78
Its simply too expensive, IMO. They may sell a few to people with money who want to be at the front of the lastest trend, but for the average consumer, its just not price competitive against the competition in its size class.

First off, you'd be surprised how many people can afford this.

Second, the first instances of any new technology is expensive at first. Then it comes down.

Look at the computer you are using currently.

reply to post by Quazga


People can certainly afford it, but why would you want to? The lease will cost $21,600 over three years. But that's not the real problem. The fact that its a lease is a deal-killer. For one, you obviously earn no equity. More importantly, you also are limiting this car's ONLY advantage: MPG. Every lease has a mileage limit, typically 12k, but sometimes 15k. It only pays for itself if you drive an awful lot and with a lease, you can't go over without a substantial penalty (usually about $.15 per mile over).

Compare this car at the equivalent of 100mpg to Honda's own Civic at 30mpg (they appear comparably sized). You can lease a Civic for around $250/month, factoring in the down payment, fees, taxes, etc. Considering that you're limited to about 1,250 miles on average per month by the lease in the best case scenario, the Civic costs about $417/month (assuming $4/gal gas). The fuel cell car? About $650/month, and this is IF that lease price includes down payment, fees, and taxes (and I doubt it does). So the Civic saves you $200-250/month, up to $9,000 over a three year lease.

Heck, I can FINANCE a decently equipped Civic costing $18,000 for 36 months for about $575/month. At the end of those 36 months, I own the car outright and have about $8-10k in equity. How much equity does the fuel cell lease car have? None.

Financially, I just don't see that it makes sense. That's not to say that it never will or that the car won't find a niche, but the price at this point simply is not competitive in its class.

Originally posted by vor78

Compare this car at the equivalent of 100mpg

100mpg?

how did you arrive at that figure?

www.physorg.com...

physorg has a nice breakdown of overall efficiency, which is still dishonest, because electricity generation is not 100% efficient either.


out of 100kWh of electric energy, only 19-23% meet thr road in the end. with an ass'u'me'd efficiency of 50% (being generous) that would mean approximately 11% overall efficiency.

100mpg? equivalent how may i ask?

reply to post by Long Lance


The article says that the vehicle will be three times as efficient as a standard gasoline powered car. The average small gasoline powered car usually gets somewhere between 30 and 40 miles per gallon. The equivalent of 100 mpg would seem to be somewhere in the ballpark IF Honda is being truthful.

i wonder how they are going to recuperate energy while decelerating. if you vent the exhaust, electrolysis flies out of the window and it would probably be less efficient than batteries or condensers anyway.

let's see, if they are honest, something will have to be invalidated. either gas engines are horribly ineffcient (in which case all 200mpg carbs suddenly look that much more credible) or their fuel cell is extremely efficient and they conveniently left out electricity and hydrogen generation. well, something's got to give.

reply to post by vor78


I don't think you get it. It's on lease because of a trial. Once the trials end, if successful, you can own one.

It's not that deep.

reply to post by Quazga


No, I get it. The vehicle itself is just significantly more expensive than its apparent competition and this fact is extremely likely to outweigh the benefits of the higher gas mileage it affords. I'm not saying that this is a bad idea or a bad vehicle. I simply don't think that there will be a large practical market for it until Honda can cut the price tag nearly in half to put the cost of ownership into a similar range as its competition. That'll eventually happen, no doubt, but they're not there yet.

[edit on 16-6-2008 by vor78]

This is a hugely important viehicle, much more important than the BMW hydrogen 7 series, which uses hydrogen liquid at extreme low temperatures where this one uses hydrogen gas.

But people need to be aware and pay atention to this car. CNN already ran a piece on it and of course ended with the comment that it takes more electricity to create hydrogen than it produces, which may or may not be true, but it dosen't matter. This car is more efficient than a normal car because it uses an electric motor so it has less thermal and mechanical loss. It is how cars should have always been built. Not only that the fuel can be made from water using solar panels, so it is possible to produce your own fuels with a far simpler process than those biodiesel abominations. The FCX concept is not just the car, it is the car + the solar powered fuel station, for off the grid living. Even if the car dosent come with one, out of lobbying, one could come from a third party, this car has the potential for energy independence.

And not just for transportation, the energy generation system can be used on your home, either full time hydrogen energy generation, on demand, or as a backup system where the hydrogen is basically your batteries for when solar is not available. This technology is, to my knowledge, the first complete solution for the energy independence of the suburban middle class, and it's success is of massive importance. And of course, the whole tech is 0 emission.

DO NOT LET THIS CAR BE KILLED LIKE THE GM ELECTRIC CAR, IT'S EVEN MORE IMPORTANT THAN THAT ONE.

Peace.

Just one more comment, and I think this one justifies it's own post:

In a world where money is just a fiat currency created out of nothing by banking wizzards and used more to promote artificial scarcity than to create prosperity, putting economical constraints on the success of this viehicle is the worse thing you can do, because it plays into the systematic exploration of mankind the elites of this world have managed to pull off with the whole oil industry fiasco of the XXth century.

This car, or some similar technology, simply HAS to succeed, and money should not be factored in as a limitation, because the economic explosion of a hydrogen economy backed with renewables will FAR outweigh the current costs.

This car should pay 0 taxes, nothing more than road insurance, it is THAT important.