2012 ARMAGEDDON: Which side are you on?

The only thing I will say concerning Ishmael is this. Assuming that Muhammed was a direct MALE line descendant of Abraham, which is your contention, he was the last of that line. I suppose that is why they call him the last prophet. In the muslim world no direct MALE line descendant of Abraham exists. But a direct MALE line descendant does exist in the western world and everyone knows this.

So you are free to quote what you please. If the muslim world has no direct male descendant of Abraham then they have no possibility of claiming ownership of Jerusalem or the kabba in Mecca; since Abraham is the builder of it. That's why your house started this war, to acquire a direct descendant of Abraham to justify their murder and theft.

Originally posted by Locoman8
reply to post by bruxfain

 

I was unaware of that fact. I thought the mahdi was suppose to be the muslim messiah.

The muslim messiah is a Priest. Their mahdi is supposed to establish a government when he returns. Apparently they have already decided that their mahdi will establish an Imamate, as opposed to the caliphate. The Imamate is apparently a theocracy led by a priest. Furthermore their mahdi doesn't have a single identity across of the muslim sects.

reply to post by queenofangels_17


No all of those who were waiting for the coming of the Lord saw all of the prophecies fulfilled by 70AD. As you may know there are various interpretations to these prophecies. You are interpreting them according to a Dispensational viewpoint. I am interpreting them according to a Preterist viewpoint. I rest on Jesus's statements in Matt 23:35, Matt 34:34 in which he says THIS generation rather than another future generation. Also see Matt 10:1-4;23 (When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. I tell you the truth, you will not finish going through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes). Also, Matt 26:34 (high priest will see Jesus coming on the clouds). Either the high priest Calaphas is still alive or Jesus came then and Calaphas saw him.

The Dispensational viewpoint was invented in the 1830'a and spread by John Darby. See commentaries from before then which state that Matt 24 was fulfilled by 70 AD.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
Brux,

The Mahdi/Messiah will look like one of the Children of Israel, but is actually a descendant of the Prophet Muhammad through his daughter Fatima. There is no doubt that the Mahdi is a Muslim, and the sign proving that the Mahdi is from God will be the Ark of the Covenant, the Jews will recognize it, the Christians will also recognize it, and the fact that the Mahdi is a Muslim entrusted with the Ark of God will prove once and for all that Islam is the Church of God and that the Prophet Muhammad(May God bless him and his family) is the ensign of God for all the Nations.

I know what you're trying to say, but I don't know how clear I can be when I explain to you that descendant is from father to son to son to son, etc. If Muhammed had no sons. That's a wrap. A woman, unless it is some sort of immaculate conception, which Muslims don't subscribe to, cannot bring forth a male who is from God. Your mahdi is from a man, a regular guy. Take a basic genetics class.

The more you write the more you confirm my belief that Muslims are currently participating in the most unforgivable and massive fraud in human history. The last days are surely upon us. To be certain. Your mahdi will never arrive so its really irrelevent.

[edit on 12-6-2008 by bruxfain]

reply to Queenofanglespost by queenofangels_17

I also noticed you referred to the "end times". While this is a popular way of speaking, the Bible doesn't use this term. It does speak of the "time of the end" which refers to the end of OT priests, sacrifices, the use of the temple, and the other aspects of the old testament covenant. What Jeus spoke of was the end of the Jewish age and the beginning of the New Covenant Age in which Christ is the new priest, sacrifice, and temple. Therefore the old was became obsolete and passed away (hebrews explains this) and the temple was allowed to be destroyed by the Romans who were a tool in God's hand.

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
reply to post by bruxfain

 

Brux,

Don't let ignorance cloud your vision, Allah in TRUTH is God, The Almighty Creator.

The Muslim people believe God's Name to be Allah, and they believe that it is indeed God who was the author of the Holy Quran.

You said muhammed couldn't read or write so he didn't write it. which means someone else wrote your holie book. A man wrote it. if God spoke through that man. then what was the point of muhammed again? You should realize that the muslim have gone to far to turn back. You won't talk your way out of this.

grab a sowrd and start killing the bad

Originally posted by keenwit
reply to Queenofanglespost by queenofangels_17

 

I also noticed you referred to the "end times". While this is a popular way of speaking, the Bible doesn't use this term. It does speak of the "time of the end" which refers to the end of OT priests, sacrifices, the use of the temple, and the other aspects of the old testament covenant. What Jeus spoke of was the end of the Jewish age and the beginning of the New Covenant Age in which Christ is the new priest, sacrifice, and temple. Therefore the old was became obsolete and passed away (hebrews explains this) and the temple was allowed to be destroyed by the Romans who were a tool in God's hand.

You have such a limited understanding on what the bible says. When Jesus spoke of the tribulation in matt 24, he was speaking as if he was already there. The term, "this generation" speaks of the generation that will be on earth at the end of the age. It also fulfills a dual prophecy but you need to look at the book of Daniel, Matt 24, Mark 13, Luke 21, and the book of Revelation. Study hard and release your current thought on the tribulation. Read these books and chapters with a clear and fresh mind. Then do well to do some outside study on bible prophecy... the most detailed in which is the Old Testament book of Daniel. We are in the midst of this prophetic fulfillment through the rise of the European Union or the 7th revival of the Roman Empire aka the feet and toes of the dream statue. Peace to you and may God bless you with understanding my friend.

I cant understand the urgency the OP uses, like heads or tales.
I didnt read all the responses but a few on the first page.
But for the OP anyway, you dont have to pick a side at that moment right..you already have, and should recieve rapture?
I forget how thats suppose to work, Are you gonna have to suffer for 7 yrs before being lifted off the planet? Or do you get it right when "they" come knocking at your door to make you evil?

In my view how poeple say the lord is loving and have faith and this and that. Their so cought up in some belief that it seems to take from their life.
In my view, this almighty creator wouldnt have left his creations with a notion of his existance at all... Just live and enjoy earth. Without any knowing.
Does this bring us to adam and eve? you could say that adam & eve were the "good" and the earth was the "evil". but how did they even know of god before they knew of evil? Could it have been their subconcious?
Not knowing what their "thoughts" were, their own brain talking to them sure could have seemed like a god...from the heavens.
Well just remember when somthing does go down, all the other non human mammals dont get to choose a faith, so it shouldnt be too incredibly complicated for us.
I didnt intend to pick on one religion here, its just the one that seems to be pushed down peoples throats the most.
Im not an evil person, I just dont want to be controlled and have to believe in somthing we cant say is real.


[edit on 13-6-2008 by Mailman]

Locoman8

When Jesus called his diciples by name and sent them out into the various cities, why did he tell them that they would not finish going through the cities of Israel before the son of man would return if His return has not yet happened?

Look at the number of instances in which Jesus used the term "this generation", as opposed to "that future generation". Who was he talking to at those times? Answer: the very people who were standing there when the conversation took place. See Matt 11, Matt 12, Matt 16, Matt 17, Matt 23, Matt 24. Show me a verse that indicates that "this generation" suddenly means a future generation rather than the current generation Jesus is living with.

Look at the number of times that Jesus says the word "YOU" instead of "YOUR DESCENDENTS". You will see all these things, all these things will come upon you, some of you will not taste death before the Son of Man returns.

reply to post by bruxfain


Who knows the MAHDI is already here... but will be revealed at the time God has ordained.

reply to post by keenwit


You know how people get when they start talking.... for instance, "That line is so long! You won't be going in there anytime soon."
That isn't directed to a specific person or group of people.. it's a comment made to inform people. Same concept with Jesus and his ,"you" comments. Not to mention, Jesus did rise after he died and met the apostles. Maybe that was a dual prophecy in these passages. Who knows? I do know you are misreading what is really said... not to mention you have to consider the mistranslations in Greek with words like, "you, ye, thy, thee, etc." They all mean different things in different context. You don't believe Jesus is coming back, well that's fine but I do believe he is.

Originally posted by keenwit
When Jesus called his diciples by name and sent them out into the various cities, why did he tell them that they would not finish going through the cities of Israel before the son of man would return if His return has not yet happened?

Do you understand what Israel is? and please don't say a country in the middle east. Israel was a family of people, and they are currently spread around the globe due to the lost 10 tribes.

Originally posted by keenwit
Look at the number of instances in which Jesus used the term "this generation", as opposed to "that future generation". Who was he talking to at those times? Answer: the very people who were standing there when the conversation took place. See Matt 11, Matt 12, Matt 16, Matt 17, Matt 23, Matt 24. Show me a verse that indicates that "this generation" suddenly means a future generation rather than the current generation Jesus is living with.

This was all translated from Greek. The word translated as "this" also means "that, "the same", meaning the article he was previously talking about, and what he was previously talking about is the generation that will see the things come to pass, not the generation he was talking to. It's simply a matter of lost in translation, and being taken out of context.

Originally posted by keenwit
Look at the number of times that Jesus says the word "YOU" instead of "YOUR DESCENDENTS". You will see all these things, all these things will come upon you, some of you will not taste death before the Son of Man returns.

Jesus didn't say that "some of you will not taste of death". Again it has to do with the language it is translated from, and what he is talking about. If you read the previous verse to the quote about those tasting death he is talking about the event of his coming with his messengers and reward etc...

27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

The word translated as "here" (there be some standing here) is hode, and means, in this same spot, there, and where is he talking about? He is talking about his return. Paul even talks about this event how there will be some still alive at the return of Christ who are changed into spirit bodies without even tasting death,

1THESSALONIANS 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1CORINTHIANS 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we (those still alive at this point) shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


[edit on 16/6/08 by doctorex]

reply to post by bruxfain


Brux,

To make matters simple, we are all descendants of Abraham. Do you know of one person alive here on earth who cannot trace his lineage to Abraham or Adam for that matter? Even if it's a long way to go, we all go back to just one.

An-Nisa (The Women)

4:1 O mankind! Be careful of your duty to your Lord Who created you from a single soul and from it created its mate and from them twain hath spread abroad a multitude of men and women. Be careful of your duty toward Allah in Whom ye claim ( your rights ) of one another, and toward the wombs (that bore you ). Lo! Allah hath been a Watcher over you.

Out of the 144,000 messengers God has sent the world, only one was prophesied to come from the brethren of the Children of Israel, the Prophet like unto Moses, a law-giver, whose Laws will stand until the Day of Judgment, who was the the seal of Prophethood, The Prophet Muhammad.

73:15 Lo! We have sent unto you a messenger as witness against you, even as We sent unto pharaoh a messenger.

73:16 But pharaoh rebelled against the messenger, whereupon We sealed him with no gentle grip.

The Kaaba at Mecca is the station of Abraham which he built with his son Ishmael and is a house of Peace for those who go on Pilgrimage on the sacred months.

2:125 And when We made the House (at Mecca) a resort for mankind and a sanctuary, (saying): Take as your place of worship the place where Abraham stood (to pray). And We imposed a duty upon Abraham and Ishmael, (saying): Purify My house for those who go around and those who meditate therein and those who bow down and prostrate themselves (in worship).

2:127 And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the House, (Abraham prayed): Our Lord! Accept from us (this duty). Lo! Thou, only Thou, art the Hearer, the Knower.

If you're still in doubt about Ishmael being Abraham's son, here is a verse in the Chapter Ibrahim of the Holy Quran.

Ibrahim (Abraham)

14:39 Praise be to Allah Who hath given me, in my old age, Ishmael and Isaac! Lo! my Lord is indeed the Hearer of Prayer.

The Kaaba at Mecca is the New Jerusalem and belongs to God's servants and faithful followers, it has been purified from idols and no idolaters are allowed to go on pilgrimage there.

Jesus himself foretold that the Messenger to come after him will baptize not with water but with fire, meaning his followers will be baptized through warfare.

Also Prophet Enoch has prophesied about the coming of the Prophet Muhammad;

"And Enoch also, the seventh generation from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard [speeches] which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14-15)"

This prophecy only came true with the Prophet Muhammad who came with ten thousand of his followers to purify the Kaaba in Mecca which at that time is a house of idols. Also Deuteronomy 33:2 has the same prophecy.

"And he said, The LORD came from Si'-nai, and rose up from Se'-ir unto them; he shined forth from mount Pa'-ran [Mecca in Arabic], and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (The King James Version Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)"

Song of Songs 5:16, if correctly translated, predicts the coming of Muhammad (pbuh) by name:

His mouth is most sweet : yea, he is MUHAMMAD. This is my
(paternal) UNCLE, and this is my COMRADE, O daughters
of Jerusalem.

There are numerous prophecies about the Prophet Muhammad in the OT and the Gospel of Jesus for people who study them with an open mind.

"As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed." Rom 9:33










[edit on 16-6-2008 by queenofangels_17]

Originally posted by queenofangels_17
So which side are you on?

The Angels of course. Always.

reply to post by bruxfain


Brux,

God knows best whom to place His message. Who do you think wrote the Old Testament, The Gospel and the Psalms if it it were not men whom God inspired?

The only difference with the Prophet Muhammad, the book was revealed piecemeal and the Prophet recited it to the people; his followers memorize them and those who are learned put them on materials they have on hand at the time.

17:106 And (it is) a Quran that We have divided, that thou mayest recite it unto mankind at intervals, and We have revealed it by (successive) revelation.

80:12 So let whosoever will pay heed to it, -
80:13 On honored leaves,
80:14 Exalted, purified,
80:15 (Set down) by scribes
80:16 Noble and righteous.

But for those who are biased against the Prophet Muhammad and what was revealed to him from God, The Holy Quran has this to say ;

6:7 Had we sent down unto thee (Muhammad) (actual) writing upon parchment, so that they could feel it with their hands, those who disbelieve would have said: This is naught else than mere magic;

The God who revealed the Torah to Moses, who revealed the Gospel to Jesus, and the Psalms to David and finally the Holy Quran to the Prophet Muhammad is the same God who is the God of Abraham.

9:111 Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Quran. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.

You ask why God chose Prophet Muhammad? He was the most trust-worthy, the most-praised man in his time.

2:23 And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if ye are truthful. -

2:91 And when it is said unto them: Believe in that which Allah hath revealed, they say: We believe in that which was revealed unto us. And they disbelieve in that which cometh after it, though it is the truth confirming that which they possess. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Why then slew ye the Prophets of Allah aforetime, if ye are (indeed) believers? -

The Prophet Muhammad is the LAST of the Prophets as the Holy Quran testifies ;

33:40 Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but he is the messenger of Allah and the Seal of the Prophets; and Allah is Aware of all things.

7:158 Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all--(the messenger of) Him unto whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. There is no God save Him. He quickeneth and He giveth death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believeth in Allah and in His words and follow him that haply ye may be led aright.

14:1 Alif. Lam. Ra. (This is) a Scripture which We have revealed unto thee (Muhammad) that thereby thou mayst bring forth mankind from darkness unto light, by the permission of their Lord, unto the path of the Mighty, the Owner of Praise.

2:252 These are the portents of Allah which We recite unto thee (Muhammad) with truth, and Lo! thou art of the number of (Our) messengers.

The duty of the Prophet Muhammad is only to deliver the message, but it is God who guides whom He will to guide to the straight path.

16:82 Then, if they turn away, thy duty (O Muhammad) is but plain conveyance (of the message).

Peace!

reply to post by Spooky Fox Mulder


Wise answer, Spooky Fox.

reply to post by queenofangels_17


I am not at all in disagreement concerning your basic premise of the last days and so on...I happen to feel as confident or perhaps even moreso that this is indeed the case. However, you asked, "Which side are you on?" I am on the side I was born on. I am on the side that fed and raised me and taught me.

You asked who wrote the Old Testament? NoOne. What you call the Old Testament, implying that it is a singular work, is actually a compilation of stories and partial stories edited and distributed in a repeating cycle over a period of time that must exceed three thousand years; extending from the late prehistory to shortly before Jesus. To attribute these books to Moses is incorrect, he simply recovered some of them. Who was the original source? God's only man. The only one to whom God directly speaks. The only person who actually knows God. Your King. Your Father.

Yes, I agree that Armageddon is close. I don't agree that it is as far away as you propose. I don't think some of these people will see the leaves fall from the trees. I also don't agree that being a muslim will get you anything special at the throne.

But I do know that we in the west will be just fine. We know who our father is. Do you?

reply to post by bruxfain


Brux,

Finally we agree on something.

I hear a more positive tone in your voice now, and I'm happy for it.

God is Your King, and God is OUR KING. That makes us servants of the same God. God is Your Father, and GOD is OUR Father, that makes us all brothers.

We should all then strive to please Our King and Father and remove hatred of our brothers in our hearts.

" Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him. " 1 John 3:15

3:103 And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate. And remember Allah's favor unto you: how ye were enemies and He made friendship between your hearts so that ye became as brothers by His grace; and (how) ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it. Thus Allah maketh clear His revelations unto you, that haply ye may be guided.

49:10 The believers are naught else than brothers. Therefore make peace between your brethren and observe your duty to Allah that haply ye may obtain mercy.

The Prophet Muhammad is truly a Prophet sent by God, him and all the prophets are the cable of Allah sent unto mankind, a light and guide for those who have faith in God and His Mercy and for those who believe in the Last Day.


49:12 O ye who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Ye abhor that (so abhor the other)! And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful.

Peace be with you.

reply to post by dray3000


Not exactly good advice, brother.

In the last days, Victory will not be through might or power but by God's Spirit will all be conquered.

Peace!