Morals and Dogma, Anti-Freemasons beware!

This is primarily directed to Ma-Ha-Bone whom I have been debating back and forth with about Morals and Dogma quotes and what they mean.

We got stuck as every debate such as this does, on a few more popular quotes often taken out of context by anti-masons such as the paragraph about Lucifer

But I figured why get hung up on just the same old stuff? Let's introduce a new quote. Now will you all please open your Morals and Dogma books to page 218, to where Albert Pike writes, "The practical object of Masonry is the physical and moral amelioration and the intellectual and spiritual improvement of individuals and society." (M&D, p. 218)

Alrighty, general analysis of this quote determines that Albert Pike believes completely with no alterations that Freemasonry is meant to benifit society, individuals, and the spirit.

So then how is it that Morals and Dogma is often used by many Anti-Freemasons to determine that Freemasonry must be satanic, world-domineering, and wanting to enslave and subjugate the peoples of the world? When the beliefs of even the man who wrote it, are nothing such.

Yet again, it seems to me that others judge with out knowing anything about which they judge, it is as if I were to claim Christianity were evil using peices of the bible (Which I've sorta done in pointing out many oddities in the bible ) but as we all know, the christian steps up and so says, "Judge not us on our bible for you do not understand it, though you may read it a million times, you will never understand it so long as you judge it from outside a window" (which has been the reply I have gotten...many times )

So I say, Judge not Freemasonry with Morals and Dogma, the opinion of one man, for those whom take the stranger quotes they will never understand, for they are outside the window, mislead those who've read nothing of it, by omitting such quotes as the one I've given.



Sincerely,
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The FM are all internationalists peoples who don't care about their own nations, coutries. They have their own values ,morals and goals.

And me, I don't like internationalists peoples. Each nation has to keep his own culture, laws, way of life...etc..etc... So, I'm not an FM friend.

No you are wrong UP, as a Freemason you swear alliegance to the country of which you are a citizen.

During the American revolution, Freemasons during those times seperated themselves from the Grand Lodge of England in effect making themselves non-masons, so that they too were still holding to that oath. This is how come there is a Grand Lodge for every state in the USA instead of just an American Grand Lodge, like all other nations have a single Grand Lodge.

Shortly after the Revolution, I think 1813, when the African Lodge # whatever (birth lodge of Prince Hall Masonry) gave its donation to brittain, this detail was noticed, and the grand lodges all became under the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of England, thus returning Freemasonry to the whole institution it was before the Revolution.

Even during the English Civil War in 1640s Freemasons held true to the alliengance thing. I think it was once said by a Freemason (can't remember actual quote), that sometimes a Patriotic man must express his voice in physical form, meaning to side with the Cromwellians.

So it is not like Freemasonry is just biding its time to create some super-state with not nation states

Masonry already has a land of masonry, it is the United States

As quoted from the back of Scottish Rite of Freemasonry Southern Jurisdiction USA Journal December 2002, "The Memorial strives not only to preserve the memory and legacy of Washington, the Mason, but to preserve, promote, and perpetuate the Masonic beliefs and ideals upon which this great nation [United States of America] was founded."

Sincerely,
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Originally posted by FreeMason

but to preserve, promote, and perpetuate the Masonic beliefs and ideals upon which this great nation [United States of America] was founded."

Ok, may be that I'm wrong.

But tell me, what are these beliefs and ideals ?

The whole liberty, freedom, equality, and brotherhood thing.

I guess you could say these ideals are the way the founding fathers behaved. They were very moral people, I wish politicians were more like them. Not all of them were masons, but they all acted alike, because in those times decency was much more common.

So the ideals that this country was founded upon, were the values that everyone could accept, Freedom: to do what you will, so long as it harms no one else Equality: Everyone has an equal opportunity and such, early america didn't show this, but they had a different view of equality, and construed masonic beliefs so that they matched their racist ones. Brotherhood: Be a brother to your fellow man, give help and charity when you can. Many people today who aren't masons still show that ideal, look at Bill Gates, the guy gives like 100,000 dollars a day to charity, if not more.

These ideals are present in our Bill of Rights, and our constitution, the fact that we have such a well functioning democracy, is because of this decency.

That is why I fear America's time is waning, too many americans are becoming indecent people, drugging it up and having sex here and there whenever, abandoning families and such. This will show its scars on our democracy, and bring an end to America, if there isn't a thread to hold it together, which currently there is

I guess an easy way of saying it, is the ideals America is founded upon, are simply "Decent". Everyone knows what that is, only a rabblerouser would try to say that Decency changes from civilization to civilization. There are common traits that all share upon, THAT is the decency I'm talking about, not nudity and stuff like that, or canibalism heh. But the freedom, and charity and such.

Sincerely,
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Originally posted by FreeMason

1) The whole liberty, freedom, equality, and brotherhood thing.

2) Many people today who aren't masons still show that ideal, look at Bill Gates, the guy gives like 100,000 dollars a day to charity, if not more.

3) These ideals are present in our Bill of Rights, and our constitution, the fact that we have such a well functioning democracy, is because of this decency.

1) WOAW. I think like freemason and I didn't know it.

2) Bha. He's earning what ? 1 billions per year ? 2 billions ? 100.000 per day = 36.5 millions per year. Thats nothing for him. But he can say " Look, I'm a great man. I help many peoples. He can pay the debt of the third world country if he want. And it will even not hurt his bank account. So, I'm skeptic. But of course, 36.5 millions, it's better than nothing.

3) That's why I think that this Constitution is the better one from the whole world.

Well about Bill Gates, I said I am unsure what his actuall figure is, it may be in the millions. But I do think when the economy was booming, he was making around 2-3 billion dollars a day, and then maybe losing as much every day as well

He is worth some 50 billion dollars, but in stock form, all his true money is from whatever he sells, and is paid.

Sincerely,
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Oh the ideal of brother hood huh?

freemasons hate the catholic church and want it gone from society, and even had
plans of infiltrating it because they believe its a god tellling us what to do.


What god do they believe?

How can all men be of god?

They believe in freedom outside of religion, when they themselves are a religion.

if they would open their eyes and heart they would believe in christ who sent them miracles upon miracles, yet their goal is
the destruction of the church of god.

they hate the church.

But one of their teachings is, god is the center of their faith.

what god?

peace.

FreeMason, Truth did a point.

Freemasons do not hate the catholic church nor do they want it gone from society. Just because one hates the other, doesn't mean the other hates them back. Only the Catholic church hates Freemasonry and wants IT gone from society. Not the other way around.

Freemasonry is not a religion, that's a lot of misinformation.

Why should everyone believe in Christ? Christ taught a plan, he wouldn't want people to follow him as if he were god, and indeed men made him a god, he's rolling in his grave, where ever it is. (Doesn't believe in ressurection)

God isn't the center of our faith, god is simply a requirement, you can't be an athiest. That is all.

You have no point

Sincerely,
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Moving along in our education, I have been so fortunate to have been given yet another great quote from Albert Pike's "Morals and Dogma". If you would all please open your book's pages to page 113, charles start at the beginning "Yes teacher *grumble grumble*

"Masonry is useful to all men: to the learned, because it affords them the opportunity of exercising their talents upon subjects eminently worthy of their attention; to the illiterate, because it offers them important instruction; to the young, because it presents them with salutary precepts and good examples, and accustoms them to reflect on the proper mode of living; to the man of the world, whom it furnishes with noble and useful recreation; to the traveler, whom it enables to find friends and brothers in countries where else he would be isolated and solitary; to the worthy man in misortune, to whom it gives assistance; to the afflicted, on whom it lavishes consolation; to the charitable man, whom it enables to do more good, by uniting with those who are charitable like himself; and to all who have souls capable of appreciating its importance, and of enjoying the charms of a friendship founded on the same principles of religion, morality, and philanthropy." (Morals and Dogma, p. 113)

That's a long quote but a good one. I think it is an excellent representation of masonry, and no where do I see "To the satanist, whom finds safety; to the catholic haters, because we hate catholics" blah blah....

Class dismissed.

Sincerely,
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[Edited on 4-1-2003 by FreeMason]

I thank you for this thread FreeMason, it has been very informative. I always knew there was a group but I have no clue as to what they were about and haven't gotten around to looking anything up about about them.

wait a minute, you cant be an athiest, but you have to believe god??

what god?

the god of free religion which is satan?

can you believe a coke a cola bottle is god?


ultimately they believe in satans theology meaning whatever truth god reveaals to us
through men we dont want to be told to believe.

but we still believe in god.

what god?

freemason they have talked about ruining the church of christ on numerous accounts in their writings.


Our church does not teach or does not want to take out freemasonry, we just say its a bad satanic religion, which it is.


It has no understanding in what it believe, and what they are taught is to embrace freedom from religion but fail to reallize
god founded a religion and a belief.

they worship satan theology and reject the christ.

christ has given them 2000 and more of miracles, and saint miracles.


No catholic has ever talked about entering freemasonry to take it over, but the freemasons have to the catholic church.


man dont you see whats happening?

All religions are being joined by the banners of offending another culture.

meaning even those who worship a sock, we cant offend them by putting up pictures of jesus.


ill post every single link and what ook there in that talk about their own qoutes and words from books, and you
could tell me what they mean without being based.

ok?

peace.

Not being able to be an athiest better explains it then "have to believe in a god" because of that issue of "Well what god?"

It doesn't matter what god, that is left to the individual. If the individual is a muslim, and the christian god is right or whatever, then I guess that Muslim is going to hell, but at least in his life he did only good and was accepted by peers rather than stoned.

The problem is, Christians imediately try and debunk Masonry by saying that it teaches the wrong god, or satan.

This is not true, because it teaches NO god, it teaches a way of life, and only let's in men whom believe that this universe is more than an accident, and that your soul is immortal.

Meaning it pretty much only exludes athiests...if your god is a coca-cola bottle, and your holy book is the little nutrition lable on the bottle, then I suppose (Though with much doubt and confusion) the Worshipful Master will allow your "Holy book" to be placed among the holy bible and the holy book of any other religions present.

Do you get it now? Many don't seem to, they still think of Freemasonry as a religion, if it were I wouldn't be a mason because currently I don't really have a religion, but my own...which is a good religion, because it is so boiled away of belief, that it pretty much only leaves what MUST be, and leaves the rest to the person to discover.

Anyways....At time Truth, you say that Christianity does not condemn people's souls for believing in other religions, as long as he doesn't disobey God's will or whatever (This is exactly what freemasonry is, with "God's will" being the Book of Moral Law -the holy bible of christianity-, a guide in respectable behaviour, that all can accept.) yet then you say Freemasonry is bad, because they "believe in many gods or something, which is the devil" which is not right because Freemasonry doesn't believe in any god. The Freemason believes in what God he thinks is best. To some that is Christianity...to myself, it is more along the lines of Taoism where that "oneness" is what we would call "GOD".

No catholic has ever talked about entering freemasonry to take it over, but the freemasons have to the catholic church.

Well that's completely wrong, and probably propogated by your "Loving" Church.

All religions are being joined by the banners of offending another culture.

I'd like to raise a very VERY GOOD POINT! This coming from someone who doesn't believe god is a concious being that makes miracles, still should hold merit in EVERYONES mind. And I think this might blow your socks off Truth, I bet it'll blow many other people's socks off....

...What if Satan isn't the combining of "Many religions into one, thus destroying "god's religion" christianity"...but rather, Satan's greatest task, and success, was to make man worship MANY religions, and the hate and intollerance of each religion, is the tool of the devil, used to keep us all from believing in God's TRUE religion.

This goes for Christianity too, a satanist religion because it believes it is right as well, when in reality it is only a small piece of the "TRUE RELIGION" which was lost millenia ago when Satan devided man apart, and gave them all different languages, so that they may never threaten his power.

I don't believe there really is a satan, or any big "Holy Drama" but it's worth thinking about. Maybe Satanism isn't the bringing together a myriad of religions, but keeping them apart, for your own vanity.

Remember, Vanity, is Satan's most favorite sin.

Sincerely,
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Oh and please post EVERY link, I love reading stuff from those who say they've proven Masonry is evil or serves satan because of "quotes" from masonry.

Sincerely,
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The catholic church has a teaching on morals of not lying ect..

they dont need to infiltrate freemasonry because god is the head of the church.

On the other haand freemasons believe the need to take out or make use of other
religions because they dont have faith in god.


ill say this one time since your confused on what i mean.

God founded a jewish religion with moses, the same god of noah, adam, eve, the religion was headed by the only creator,
the lord who maade (everybody) and everything in it.

jesus fullfilled the new law and new covenant by his coming.

he was the spotless and clean sacrafice.

He is the lord and this will never change, and all other religions are false pagan religions created by man whom had not been accompanied by (miracles)

God proves this by having 2000 years and more of miracles inside of the catholic church, the old prophets of the OT worked miracles.

moses parted the red see by a miracle.


The catholic church is the only church with an uninteruppted amount of historical documented miracles which have taken place in it since it
began.

fatima, lasalett, ect..

70,000 witnessed fatima, you cannot deny this.



Ok.

Now.

This is why i know its the only religion not including personal miracles ive witnessed in jesus name and the dreams ive had of him.

Its the only belief and religion whether i like it or not or anybody, it will not chnage, truth will always remain nomatter who does not believe.


Our chuch teaches that those who are outside of the church through no fault of their own can make it into heaven, as long as he lives by his conscience and is just.


if you blataantly hate jesus and his church without reason other than hating him you truly will not make it at all.


those who are sincere and a priest comes and tells them about jesus, and they truly sincerely dont believe, they still can make
it as long as they dont blatantly hate him for no reason.


god will give signs to convert many.

but this in no way means i dont condemn other religion.

i condemn every other relligion, not the men in the religion, the religion itself.


This is exactly what our church teaches.

i have catechisms that explain the exact same thing i explained.


So see, our church does not damm anyone outside our religion, we damm the religion not the nem in it.

if one in our church damms any man in other religions he is a heretic to his own religion.


Btw, all religions are being joined by the new world order headed by antichrist.

see yyu dont understand thata the ultimate apostasy i to join false religions with the only one, sounds great with peace for the world, but ultimately
antichrist will head this and will proclaim himself god of that religion.

You think im brainwashed, but you have not seen what ive seen, nor have you seeen what the saints haave seen
and the prophets.

what about the shroud of turon?

all these miracles hes given us and we still are too hard headed.



peace.

Ill dig up all the links i can and give them to youwhen i find them.

but let me ask you this.

Do you believe i fatima?

remember you don't believe in satan.


so, do you believe in fatima?

peace.

Originally posted by Truth
On the other haand freemasons believe the need to take out or make use of other religions because they dont have faith in god.

This is wrong and I don't understand where you get this idea?

moses parted the red see by a miracle.

This "miracle" is not proven

The catholic church is the only church with an uninteruppted amount of historical documented miracles which have taken place in it since it
began.

This does not mean that Miracles happen regaurdless, it is the same as saying there is nothing before written history, which is not true, plenty happend, so maybe all those pagans experienced miracles too, but didn't write them all down, just expressed them in their culture.

You think im brainwashed, but you have not seen what ive seen, nor have you seeen what the saints haave seen
and the prophets.

I've seen a lot myself, but I interpret it all as fate...I don't think it is god making "miracles" and such...I think Fate is a more "natural" occurance that is not fixed, but more like a stream, that wanders and meanders...and is never certain.

You may be right and have the "Truth" but....it does not mean that Freemasonry is evil

Nor is Freemasonry a religion, when you understand that, you might begin to understand better that Masonry doesn't teach a god, it doesn't teach an anti-christ, no anti-christ will become god of it...that sort of thing, it just teaches a way of better living, and of understanding, and most of all why you should help others

I'm very interested though in those links, I love reading what religions think of us...www.ephesians-1:11.com or soemthing like that...that's an interesting one

And lastly, I can't recall fatima maybe if I know what it is I'll "believe" it or not

Sincerely,
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Oh boy....


Too much fanatism here.



1)
Catholicism doesn`t have anything to do with Jesus as the religion and the amassment of book to form "a bible" came a hundred years after Jesus-s death.


2)
From what I understand, The Freemason came at Renaissance era as a secret society mostly because the Popes and whatnots were killing everyone at the time that dared talk about religious issues outside of catholicism.



Now....

>God isn't the center of our faith, god is simply a >requirement, you can't be an athiest. That is all.


WHY ??????????

What about I believe in a dozen gods ?
It seems not everyone can become a freemason with all your secrets and rules... WHY ?????????????
WHAT IS THE BIG FUSS ??? WHO CARES ??????


>"The practical object of Masonry is the physical and >moral amelioration and the intellectual and spiritual >improvement of individuals and society." (M&D, p. 218


HOW CAN YOU HELP THE EARTH AND PEOPLE BY SEPARATING YOURSELF FROM THE REST IN A SECRET CLASS SYSTEM ???


Helloo ???? (knock on head)


Freemason is not evil.....it`s plain schtoopid.

Totally misinformed by years and years of advancements in philosophy.


So..you better start digging out some of the great "secrets" if you really want to defend yourself.


As for the catholic..oh well....lost cause....
At least be a christian... use your mind..read history..don`t be a fool.... It`s not because the brainwash have been huge that it`s less of a brainwash....

Keep the "jesus words" if u love them so much, but you can really leave most of it to garbage... It`s not "sons of gods" who assembled the Bible, and from where I stand, Jesus never mentioned anything about looking back to the Old Testament and I think that`s partly why the Jews hated him so much.


There you go,


Cedric...still seeking for people who will demystify freemasonry for me....so i can shut up my friend`s mouth for a good once. That would be the greatest service a freemason would render to humanity..trust me...(cos...grrr..I`m about to kill the guy....just kidding..)

You need to believe in a superior being/s you can believe in 10000000 gods, like the Hindus, and become a freemason, you simply can not be an athiest.

Why exactly is probably more rooted in tradition than in practicality, but a practical reason may be the fact that the Bible and any other religious book of any religion present in the lodge, is used as the "Volume of Sacred Law". A book of morals pretty much. Athiesm is without this book, athiesm does not look to a creator//benefactor//guide, any of those things.

Athiests don't have a "superior" in their minds. Which is their choice, but Freemasons choose to not have people whom do not think that this universe HAD to be organized, even if just in the simplest manner of quarks and the rest happend by accident.

When Freemasonry began, not a single person, not one, on the earth, was an athiest.

And the ones today, are simply misguided by science, they know enough of science to know there is no god, but not enough to realize that there has to be a god.

Freemason is not evil.....it`s plain schtoopid.

You are beginning to sound less like the boy who wants nothing to do with something, and more like the boy who is left out, peering in through the windows wanting to belong, but can not, and so blames those inside instead of himself.

I don't necissarily mean you and freemasonry, but it definately seems like there's something in you that burns.

Well to focus more...

Cedric...still seeking for people who will demystify freemasonry for me....so i can shut up my friend`s mouth for a good once.

If you tell me what he's been saying that's angered you so, I can probably demystify it. Perhaps it has less to do with masonry, than it does simply to do with him.

Sincerely,
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