Why can no one prove a Masonic conspiracy?

Masonic ideals focus on Making the world a better place,and it seems that each lodge has similar or different to do that.I can understand why people are suspicious of them,as they are rather secretive.Also,one man/group of men may not have the same idea of "good/better world" as another (or even the rest of society) As shown by the few anarchist masons.


P.S. There are bad men in EVERY group known to man,and who's to say one isn't a high level Mason?
So i wouldn't trust an entire Masonic lode as far as i could throw it,but i wouldn't condemn one as much as i could guillotine a boulder.

reply to post by metodex

It's so secret that all sorts of non-members know about it.

reply to post by Szarekh

Even if a bad man were to make it up the ranks of Masonry, he still must govern himself according to the rules. Even the leaders don't rule just to what they want, but must obey the laws, rules, and regulations, and if he doesn't conform he would be removed. I've seen Grand Masters removed because of their poor decisions. Masons have a pretty strong checks and balances system in place.

Originally posted by prevenge
you know what i mean.
the CIA follows specific clandestine protocols and agendas and their leadership is constantly switching hands...
freemasonry should be able to pull up their big boy pants and do the same.

The Central Intelligence Agency does not have leadership that is constantly changing hands. There have been 22 Directors of the Agency since its change from the Office of Strategic Services to the Central Intelligence Agency in 1946. If there are indeed specific clandestine protocols then they are passed down from Director to Director. It is up to them to decide wether to adhere to, modify or eliminate them based on prevailing requirements or administration directives.

Masonry has no such protocols other then its Constitution and Landmarks which are available to the general membership. The Grand Master for each year can make his own rules but these do not have to be adopted by his succesor and they often are not. Additionally, they are published and proclaimed at each Grand Lodge Annual Convention so that the membership can recognize they exit and must follow them.

To compare a Masonic Grand Lodge to the Central Intelligence Agency shows a fundemental misunderstanding on how Masonic government and structure operates. It also makes the leap that the 51 Grand Logdes are in alignment with each other on this policy; as what could one Grand Lodge accomplish without the help of the other 50?

Originally posted by Szarekh
Masonic ideals focus on Making the world a better place,and it seems that each lodge has similar or different to do that.I can understand why people are suspicious of them,as they are rather secretive.Also,one man/group of men may not have the same idea of "good/better world" as another (or even the rest of society) As shown by the few anarchist masons.

But Masonic ideals don't focus on making the world a better place beyond one man at a time.

I can't make the world a better place.

I can't make you a better man.

I can try to make myself a better man, and I can teach you the tools I'm using if you want to try to do the same.

That's where it ends. If enough people improve themselves, then yes, the world will be a better place. But the only change one can really affect is on himself.

P.S. There are bad men in EVERY group known to man,and who's to say one isn't a high level Mason?

It's quite possible that one might be a Mason. But since there's no such thing as a "high level Mason", that's about as far as it gets.

Originally posted by JoshNorton
I can't make the world a better place.

I respectfully disagree Brother Emperor.

I think this is what Masonic charity hinges upon, leaving the world a better place then we found it.

From the Entered Apprentice Lecture:

The greatest of these is Charity...but Charity extends beyond the grave, through the boundless realms of eternity.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
During the dark ages they were forced to go underground because of the catholics.

Modern speculative Masonry is typically considered to have arisen after the Dark Ages and is one of the main contributors to the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightenment.


[edit on 20-5-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

Are you saying that Freemasonry is responsible for the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightment? Can you tell me in what way Masons orchestrated these events? Specifically, what public examples of Masonic influence historically and verifiably one should research to learn more about that.

Thanks!

Originally posted by ELectricalApprentice
Are you saying that Freemasonry is responsible for the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightment?

Please re-read what you quoted, I said it 'contributed to', not 'is responsible for'.

reply to post by ELectricalApprentice

I'm actually writing a piece on this considering whether it was correlation or causation with Masonry in regards to the Age of Enlightenment.

I live in Mt. Vernon, Missouri less than an hour from Ozark and we have a few strange things going on here. We have a stone monument in one of our graveyards, it is not a grave stone, though it has the name ‘Smith’ on it. It is pyramid shaped and is missing the cap stone. It has the Enoch circle and pi on one side. It has a pyramid on one side with a cap stone with lines around it. Another side has the earth cut in half with grid on it and longitude and latitude of the Great Pyramid on it and the fourth side is the strangest of all, a map of tombs carved into it with dates starting from BC to 2011 for different areas. What is odd about the dates is that I’ve been visiting this marker since I was 16 that was 25 years ago. the 2011 date was on it then and that was in 1987. I have made a video of the stone. Can anyone decode it?

youtu.be...

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by ELectricalApprentice
Are you saying that Freemasonry is responsible for the Renaissance and the Age of Enlightment?

Please re-read what you quoted, I said it 'contributed to', not 'is responsible for'.

Apologies Augustus, I jumped the gun a little there.

Originally posted by KSigMason
reply to post by ELectricalApprentice

 

I'm actually writing a piece on this considering whether it was correlation or causation with Masonry in regards to the Age of Enlightenment.

I'd be interested to read your findings, perhaps you can let me know when it has been completed?

Originally posted by ELectricalApprentice
Apologies Augustus, I jumped the gun a little there.

No worries.

reply to post by ELectricalApprentice

If I remember, yes, I'll let you know, but I update my blog quite regularly.

Originally posted by KSigMason
I'm actually writing a piece on this considering whether it was correlation or causation with Masonry in regards to the Age of Enlightenment.

Any progress on this piece?

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

Now that's winter break I'm working on it more, but these last few weeks were filled with nothing but Final Examinations for my University.

Who am I? It appears 20 posts are needed to start a new thread so I figured I'd post this randomly in this thread. Now I'm wondering how much is missed on here because people have a story, but can't make a thread without posting a bunch before.

The battle of Tolbiac, 496 AD, King Clovis of the Merovingian line (and the descendant of a sea god) is suffering defeat to the Allamani.In desperation, he prays to the god of his christian wife Cliotilde (Jesus Christ) to help him to turn the tide of this battle, then he will acknowledge his power and convert to Christ. King Clovis gathered his men, and told them that whoever breaks the line of the Allamani, he will make a leader.

I have a book that tells a story of our family history. Searching for the Origin of an old family crest with a Robuck and star turned up no records in the history of France, but a monk at a monastery mentioned that that story was older then common records and might be in the records of the monastery, and there it was. The records told a story about the Battle of Tolbiac, and how King Clovis gathered his men and told them that whoever breaks the line of the Allamani he would be made a leader. Bearing a Robuck on his shield, my ancestor killed the leader of the Allamni forces with an axe and was bestowed a star on his shield by king Clovis as a new symbol of his rank.

As far as I know that was the start of the MacAlexander's, who eventually became the Bruce's (Robert the Bruce, from Braveheart). My Last name is Dixon, and I came across a page linking the Dixon's to Robert the Bruce.

dixon.intco.biz...

Thomas Dixon fought until his final breath holding in his guts with one hand after having his stomach slashed open, and fighting until he collapsed. His statue depicts him holding in his stomach with one hand, and a sword in the other.

The Bruce's eventually sprang off to William Travis of the Alamo, and even vice president James Caldwell Calhuon. I have a copy of a letter from George Washington Thanking a relative, (who was a general for the resistance) for paying his troops out of his own pocket to fund the revolution. I have a few family members that even signed the declaration of independence as far as I know.

My grandpa was in jail once, and when his father bailed him out he said "Isn't it funny how your family made the steel locking you in right now?". He was a cryptic old man, and he was a Free Mason who left it all never talking about his masonic past. Robert Carnegie Dixon was his name, and he mentioned one time about how he had a trust fund from his family that he pretty much ran away from in Liverpool England.........Carnegie steel is the only thing I can think of from what he mentioned about the steel bars holding my grandpa in and his middle name.

One time after getting a free month of Genealogy.com a long time ago my dad checked our history and it turned out I am related to most of the the Presidents and Celebrities I know of. I kinda thought "That's funny, I bet everyone is related to famous people!". Thinking about it now though......is that unique.........who am I? My ancestor was the miracle Clovis prayed for and after the battle 3000 Franks begged Clovis to convert to Christianity, which he did. France could very well be German and some pagan religion in another reality. Another helped win Independence for the Scott's, and another inspired a country and gave birth the the phrase, "remember the Alamo". Others helped Washington win America.

That's only on one my grandma's side too, on I don't know much about the other branches but I have a full blooded Cherokee on my mothers side and that's a part of me as well.

This is just a fraction of my family. Am I special? Sometimes I wonder if I am. Am I the one who is supposed to help set things right? I hate leading, but sometimes I feel I should be a leader because of my compassion and empathy for life, and it literally hurts me to see other people hurt. I feel things are wrong in the world, and that everything my ancestors fought for has become tainted by evil. I have no "power", and the only reason I am posting this is because I've had a few drinks for new years and just feel like rambling about it. Most likely I won't even follow up on this, but part of me feels like this story should be on the internet....somewhere, just in case it is interesting to anyone. Someday I hope to do just a fraction of what my family did for our history, but right now I'm lost.

"Genetic memory" is something I think about a lot, and often wonder if it has any bearing on why some weird things just feel like common knowledge to me, and some seem like outright lies. I'll stop rambling now, if anybody reads this though, god bless, and have a happy new year!......13 is my lucky number

I have yet to see one individual prove that there is a ‘Masonic’ conspiracy of any type taking place

You just have to look at how many US Presidents have been Masons to see that they at least have a lot of power or influence. Whether they use if for some secret Masonic purposes I can't say.

Originally posted by CB328
You just have to look at how many US Presidents have been Masons to see that they at least have a lot of power or influence. Whether they use if for some secret Masonic purposes I can't say.

No, really we don't. 14 Presidents have been masons, out of 44 presidents total - or 31%.

What would that "secret Masonic purpose" be, by the way? Just by way of an example.

Originally posted by Lynx537
This is just a fraction of my family. Am I special? Sometimes I wonder if I am. Am I the one who is supposed to help set things right? I hate leading, but sometimes I feel I should be a leader because of my compassion and empathy for life, and it literally hurts me to see other people hurt. I feel things are wrong in the world, and that everything my ancestors fought for has become tainted by evil. I have no "power", and the only reason I am posting this is because I've had a few drinks for new years and just feel like rambling about it. Most likely I won't even follow up on this, but part of me feels like this story should be on the internet....somewhere, just in case it is interesting to anyone. Someday I hope to do just a fraction of what my family did for our history, but right now I'm lost.

Everyone believes they are special, or at least wants to believe. It parts of being human. The bland, boring truth about most of our lives isn't very exciting. You are no different - are you really special? No. But you don't have to believe in some magical destiny to do good in the world.

Originally posted by CB328
You just have to look at how many US Presidents have been Masons to see that they at least have a lot of power or influence. Whether they use if for some secret Masonic purposes I can't say.

The last one was Gerald Ford in 1976. Not really too recent to be influential.