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Originally posted by Annee
Originally posted by Threadfall
If they broke a school rule then they should be punished. This was not some noble protest, it was probably about some lazy punks being a$$es. Geeez, just stand put your hand on your chest and sing along in your head the lyrics to your favorite song. Protest for the sake of protest is asinine, but then some people aren't happy unless people are looking in them. The OP makes it sound like this horrible, wanton punishment. Boo hoo. I'll save my tears (and support) for real travesties
Are you for real?
Originally posted by jasonjnelson
The flag represents something very sacred to a lot of people.
these kids are in school, and they didn't follow the rules--period.
Originally posted by jasonjnelson
I don't know why I'm posting to an obvious "bait" thread, but here goes....
I fought for our country, would do so again in a minute. I swore an oath to the constitution, and the country it represents. That flag is also representative of the very same nation, and all of those who sacrificed for it. Patriotic displays and rituals are a needed lesson to every person raised in this country.
It is a simple procedure.
Stand when the PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE is recited, as well as the national anthem. You are, after all, making that pledge.
If not, (and don't use the under God reference, it can be omitted) and you don't want to say the pledge? Get the BLEEP out, and find a country that will hand you the same benefits and security without an oath of allegiance.
Yeah, thought so...
Originally posted by yeti101
the patriotic thing in the states is out of hand. Its used all the time by the government & media to stifle criticism. If your anti-war they say your not supporting the troops and being unpatriotic.
its one of bill oreillys favourite weapons in any criticism of the bush government. They blur the line between patriotism for your country & support of the government. Very much how communist governments like north korea operate.
im only against the pledge becuase of the way patriotism is used by governments to push their agenda.
[edit on 13-5-2008 by yeti101]
Originally posted by dr_strangecraft
I don't really care either way.
Lovely for the little ones to be differentiating themselves from the group mind and all that. Yay for them, even if they're not adults, and even if the Supremes have ruled that minors and attendees of public schools have limited (lessened) rights while at school; i.e., rights to privacy, etc.
And is punishing them for disobeying the rules somehow a dark plot from the Oval Office to controll the minds of young midwesterners? Hardly--the White House is focused on the next spending bill, not kids in the sticks with a punk attitude and a kewl haircut.
Despite their morbid lefty nightmares, America really isn't in danger of the takeover from within that so many liberals imagine; most nations in history (up to WWII) had some sort of loyalty ceremony on public occasions.
You know the real sign of fascist takeover? It's not when kids are punished for being louts; that is just the way of things. No, fascism comes when no one even dissents; no one questions the strong leader, no one doubts that the sacred soil of the mother/father-land is worth their blood.
A real fascist doesn't have a 30% approval rating, a la Bush. A real Fascist has a 99.99% approval rating, like Mussolini or Franco, or the early Hitler and Napoleon.
For a real fascist, people are falling all over themselves to salute and show off their political piety.
And do you know why????
Because the fearless leader can promise you safety, bread, and a job. That's why.
Nope, there's no real threat of fascist takeover, or anarchic flag-burning. It's just another day in America: everyone shouting that they alone have it right.
The only danger is when no one WANTS to dissent. When they beg for the leader's mark on their right hand or forehead. When they convert to a one-world religion that dovetails with the shiny new one-wold government.
The problem is not on days like today, when this topic draws page after page of replies. The problem comes when no one cares either way, as long as they have a job.
Originally posted by ldunquist
"But if they asked you right now, pledge allegiance to America, or go pledge it to another country, most likely, you would stay here."
Wow, way to not understand what America is. If America required me to pledge allegiance or go somewhere else, I wouldn't *want* to live here. America is not its flag, its not even the geophysical location on the planet politically designated the United States, its an idea. The idea that we are all equals.
What you are talking about is like singing in church the loudest so your neighbors know you love Jesus the most. Personally, I speak the loudest with my actions, not with meaningless rituals. I don't give a damn what other people think. I love America and I don't have to prove it to anybody.
Originally posted by RedmoonMWC
First, this country is not and never has been, a Democracy, it was set up as, and is supposed to be, a Constitutional Republic with a semi Democratic election process.
Second, you cannot tell me that an 8th grader has any concept about politics and protest, these kids were just being disrespectful and parrioting their parrents view at most. Most kids don't understand the meaning of the pledge or the amendments to the Constitution.
Third, The pledge and standing as the Flag passes is a sign of respect, not for our current administration, but for the constitution and what this country was founded on, if you can't show the minimum respect by standing during the pledge, then you should also remain seated when your favorite team scores. (you will notice I did not say recite the pledge)
The reason school systems have kids recite the pledge is so, over time, they will memorize it, and possibly come to know what it meens.
Richard Bernard “Red” Skelton said it best here. www.poofcat.com...
contempt or lack of respect, or courteous regard for others.
Originally posted by livingtorch
Scarlett1125, I have to disagree with your comments, "When we start allowing the government or any other person of authority tell us how we can and cannot express our disagreement, then we become something other than Americans--something other than a democracy."
School Children are not people who have reached the age of majority yet. They cannot legally sign contracts, drive a car, or drink alcohol. The kids in question were in Middle School, so they were probably not over the age of 15.
By the precepts handed down from our founding fathers, these kids are supposed to follow the instructions of their educators. When they reach the age of majority THEN they can decide if they want to snub their noses at (or spit in the faces of) all of those who have fought (and died) for their right to do so.
Unfortunately, society today does not want rules of ANY kind--unless it is to tell Christians or those scientists who believe in intelligent design (because their research leads them in that direction) to shut up.
The next logical step in the evolution of thinking society does not NEED any archaic rules is that we should turn all the criminals--including murderers and rapists -- loose, because they were just doing things that THEY felt like doing at the time.
Originally posted by jasonjnelson
reply to post by C0le
And I respectfully say to you that you know nothing of what that pledge means to me.
That I understand that my oath is, and was. That what you are saying makes no sense, because if a communist came to this country, exercising his "rights" and then started a party that gained power, it would then eliminate your rights. Free speech is only what it is because of the sheer strength of this country. And this country IS embodied in that flag. We can sit on this fence and argue all day about that. But I believe we are already, as a society, headed down an ever widening divide on what the idea of being an American really is.
[edit on 12-5-2008 by jasonjnelson]
Originally posted by wytworm
Using this definition, Germany under Hitler wasn't fascist either!