3 Students Suspended for not Standing for Pledge

reply to post by wytworm

Livingtorch, I wanted to take a moment to reply to your post. You said,

"School Children are not people who have reached the age of majority yet. They cannot legally sign contracts, drive a car, or drink alcohol. The kids in question were in Middle School, so they were probably not over the age of 15.

By the precepts handed down from our founding fathers, these kids are supposed to follow the instructions of their educators. When they reach the age of majority THEN they can decide if they want to snub their noses at (or spit in the faces of) all of those who have fought (and died) for their right to do so.

Unfortunately, society today does not want rules of ANY kind--unless it is to tell Christians or those scientists who believe in intelligent design (because their research leads them in that direction) to shut up."

In response, I would have to say that this kind of thinking creates kids who do not question authority. When they grow up, they are not really grown up because they are always looking for someone else to tell them what the right answer is. They start to believe that the right answer comes from anywhere other than themselves.

I teach college English, and I see this every day in freshman composition classes. The students have no mind of their own and no will to find any answer for themselves. That is the testament to our schools. So whenever I see any student who is willing to break out of that mold and think for himself or herself, I celebrate it because I think it's outstanding that they are taking for themselves that which has been stripped from all of us.

Maybe you would be right if the schools actually taught the children about their civil liberties. But I guess they couldn't do that and have complete control over those kids, huh? Personally, I have 5 children that I count as my own, and I would rather argue a point with any one of them because they are thinking than to have them follow me blindly. Blind obedience is only for the very young and the very weak. I want my children to have a spine and to be willing to stand up for what they believe. If we don't allow them to do that in any setting until they are 18, by the time they are legal adults, it is already too late.


[edit on 13-5-2008 by scarlett1125]

reply to post by jasonjnelson


Im on my way to Sweden. Cya.

As a European onlooker it scares me how self absorbed some Americans are and how bound they are by so called tradition(what #ing tradition...America is a hodge podge newly born bastard child) and patriotism?!?

A system sholld be there to serve the user and not to enslave them.

At this side of the world America has the image of a retarded selfish bully kicking all the other kids into submission.

It's time to leave your bubble and integrate peacefully with the rest of the world.

When you are outside looking at America the blind fate propaganda is sickening.

Stop being lemmings and start to say NO! ...the world isn't evil and we don't need to be it's police force!

It's a clear case of not being able to see the forest because of the trees.

So there was resistance, just not the kind you care to count. So which types of resistance do you count if you dismiss out of hand both armed resistance, as well as unarmed dissent, which according to you only happened in one or two cases? It seems as if you have argued both ends of this and slammed your head into the wall.

Except that I quoted Huey Long in a previous posting...

Wow!

Ordinarily, i would stand for the pledge. I would make my kids stand for the pledge. I always DID stand for the pledge, its out of respect for our great country that once was.

At this point in time, i think i'd sit it out and watch everyone else dance.
I'm not proud of this, but i dont like hipocrisy.

Originally posted by dgtempe
Wow!

Ordinarily, i would stand for the pledge. I would make my kids stand for the pledge. I always DID stand for the pledge, its out of respect for our great country that once was.

At this point in time, i think i'd sit it out and watch everyone else dance.
I'm not proud of this, but i dont like hipocrisy.

I agree. I think I would rather spend whatever time everyone else is spending buying support the troops magnets, lapel pins and saying the pledge, and actually DO something to make it worth pledging to. Otherwise it seems a bit like being part of the violin quartet fiddling on deck as the Titanic sunk...

[edit on 14-5-2008 by wytworm]

Textreply to post by LostNemesis


You have some very good points there, LostNemesis. President George W. Bush sold us out a couple of years a go. I was very disappointed! The last year and a half I have wanted to throw up at the mention of his name. There are no lengths he won't go to to support his party, even when he knows he is going against the people's choice. I feel firmly he will be rated the worst president EVER! A title President G.W. Bush deserves!!!
As for the three kids. Just the number alone, speaks volumes for the kids who chose to stand(I'm proud of them.) Just as the post said, pledge to another country. You won't be missed, oh yeah, take that bag of a mother with you. God Bless America!!!!!!

HA! another good thread. yes they should be suspended. when asked to stand by the teacher they should have stood not because of respect for the flag or that other stuff but simply because while they are at school they are supposed to do what the teachers ask of them unless it will put them in danger.

it is great that they learned this valuable lesson nd i bet they stand next time.

liberals are hilarious.

I have mixed feelings on this. I really think that one day suspension isn't good enough. I mean, standing for the Pledge Of Allegience... you just do it. It shows respect for our country, ideals and the people who fought for it.

On the other hand, I understand that kids need a voice too, etc. But to me the Pledge is like a reminder for the things this country is built upon and needs to be remembered so we can change what we don't like about it now. Does that make sense?

Any school district that does something like this is really stupid. The U.S. Supreme Court decided in 1942, that no one could be forced to recite the pledge \ or to salute the flag.

The school district is setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

Saluting the flag, or reciting the pledge has absolutely nothing to do with patriotism. Too many people want to impose a lock step mentality on the world, thinking that this will make things better. They forget the very principles that this country was founded upon.

"Your rights end at the tip of my nose" is a very good philosophy. You can do whatever you want, so long as it harms no one else. Of course, if what you do is against some stupid law, then you take your chances.

Originally posted by MacSen191
I have mixed feelings on this. I really think that one day suspension isn't good enough. I mean, standing for the Pledge Of Allegience... you just do it. It shows respect for our country, ideals and the people who fought for it.

On the other hand, I understand that kids need a voice too, etc. But to me the Pledge is like a reminder for the things this country is built upon and needs to be remembered so we can change what we don't like about it now. Does that make sense?

In my mind it would show more respect to fix the problems that we are all to familiar with than to stand and mouth words to an idea that no one apparently even cares to think about now...

School Children are not people who have reached the age of majority yet. They cannot legally sign contracts, drive a car, or drink alcohol. The kids in question were in Middle School, so they were probably not over the age of 15.

The state does not grant rights. We are born with them.

Hey with no disrespect to those who have served in the military and such but each of us is born with the God given right to Free Will and so folks that means that we already have freedom and all that comes with it. What you are fighting for is against those who want to take that away from you. I am sorry to say, but the reasoning that this nations battles are faught have been sort of turned around making us think that our freedoms are something we must earn the right for. Truth is, that is not truthful, we are born with all the freedoms, but over the length of time others have made it different. I guess to get us to fight the wars, they have to tell us something to make us angry enough to give up our lives to fight often meaningless wars against our own kind...Man kind.

Originally posted by blimpseeker


liberals are hilarious.

Yes we are. I have no respect for the pledge, just like Bush.

'nuff said.

Wytwrm, by "The state does not grant rights. We are born with them."

Does that mean killers and rapists are born with a "RIGHT" to kill and rape?

Do drug dealers have a "RIGHT" to deal drugs to our grade school children?

Do people have a "RIGHT" to break any and all laws, leaving nothing but chaos in their wake?

What about the illegal personal income tax which was never ratified by congress in 1913? Do people have a "RIGHT" not to pay taxes?

So much for being "born with" rights.

Originally posted by livingtorch
Wytwrm, by "The state does not grant rights. We are born with them."

Does that mean killers and rapists are born with a "RIGHT" to kill and rape?

Do drug dealers have a "RIGHT" to deal drugs to our grade school children?

Do people have a "RIGHT" to break any and all laws, leaving nothing but chaos in their wake?

What about the illegal personal income tax which was never ratified by congress in 1913? Do people have a "RIGHT" not to pay taxes?

So much for being "born with" rights.

Livingtorch,

I think you are misunderstanding the rights to which those of us here have referred. The Bill of Rights are those unalienable rights that the founding fathers believed were the rights of the people. I have never seen the right to rape, murder, etc. in the Bill of Rights. Have you? Or are you trying to throw this debate into some other realm by casting a red herring (distraction) over the whole thing. We are born with the right to speak our minds, to think for ourselves, to dissent, to dare, to dream, to feel safe, to protect ourselves and our loved ones. Honestly, I think it's abhorrent that anyone would try to defame those rights by comparing them to rape and murder.

reply to post by scarlett1125


About your news artical here, it mentions that people had died to defend peoples rights. My responce to this is, EXACTLY. They died for the right for people to chose what they do. Forcing these kids to stand for the pledge is more of a slap in the face to these people than the kids refusing to!

Just in case nobody has posted this already, if already a member had I appologize.

facts about the pledge of the legion and our constitution.

The Pledge of Allegiance

In its 1940 Gobitis decision (310 US 586), the Supreme Court ruled that schools can compel students to recite the Pledge. The U.S. Congress recognized the Pledge officially in 1942, and in 1954 added the phrase "under God" to the text. In 1943, the Supreme Court overturned Gobitis and ruled in its Barnette decision (319 US 624) that school children could not be forced to recite the Pledge as a part of their school day routine..

1. Today, the wording of the Pledge of Allegiance is set in the US Code, at 4 USC 4. The text of that section is below.

If you would like more information on the U.S. flag, I suggest that you visit USFlag.org, an excellent site with lots of resources concerning the flag and its evolution.

www.usconstitution.net...

Just some historical facts.

[edit on 15-5-2008 by marg6043]

Inch by Inch America looses the freedoms and liberties it's forefathers died for in the pursuit of a false sense of security from a threat that is almost non-existent.

And what do you gain from it? A Draconian, "no-nonsense", humorless authoritarian system of government that punishes people who refuse to pledge allegiance to a corrupt regime....