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Is it all in the mind?

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posted on May, 1 2008 @ 10:15 PM
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So are mythological creatures created by the human mind? And if so, can the fantasies’ get so complex as to become real?

Let us first look at the Tibetan Monks teachings. There are teachings in the Tibetan philosophy that teach its members to be able to channel this energy so focused as to create an apparition called a Tulpa.

So therefore if indeed there is a way to channel the mind into creating a ghost like person then it is entirely possible that people that do not have this training. In mass groups may in fact be creating these Talpa’s entirely by accident and these creatures are in fact creations of the human mind and not lost creatures or living dinosaurs.


There are... apparitions that make public appearances. Some of these are said to be the perceptible double—the etheric counterpart—of a living person who is undergoing an out-of-body experience. Even more mysterious are the externalized perceptible manifestations of something whose existence originated in the mind of its creator by virtue of that person's incredible powers of concentration, visualization, and other, more occult, efforts of the mind. In Tibet, where such things are practiced, a ghost of this kind is called a tulpa. A tulpa is usually produced by a skilled magician or yogi, although in some cases it is said to arise from the collective imagination of superstitious villagers, say, or of travelers passing through some sinister tract of country.


Or are these creatures out there waiting to be discovered. Perhaps a little from both can explain some of these paranormal and phenomenal sightings including UFO’s




posted on May, 4 2008 @ 11:23 PM
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The mind indeed can play tricks on a person. Mirages are a comon phenominon that tricks a person into believing that something is there that does in reality not exist.

In the cases of Ghosts, sometimes a person investigating a known paranormal location may in fact trigger the phenominon by their own belief in the subject.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 01:00 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


If a person sees a mirage and really think there is an oasis in the middle of the desert, it still does not mean that the oasis really exists. I think this happens with ghosts and UFOs a lot of the time too.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 01:05 AM
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But can the mind believe in the fantacy enough to make it actually exist?

This is the foundation for occult magic. To believe in the result enough to actualy make the result happen.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 01:54 AM
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Have there been any cases where a mirage of an oasis actually became real? No. Not one time that I have ever heard.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 09:42 AM
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But can the mind believe in the fantacy enough to make it actually exist?


Yes, Whatukno.
Only, it's not "fantasy": it's creative imagination (and other, so far unsatisfactorily researched forces within the human mind and/or its interaction with the environment).
And it's not about the mind "believing" in anything: those creations are perfectly existent.

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with mirages.


P.S. I am talking from personal experience, BTW.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:02 AM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


A Mirage is nothing more than an optical illusion, so in that sense it's all in the eye.

What that crazy guy vanitas says holds some truth, except of course he failed to mention that the imagination is perfectly real, so therefore whatever the imagination imagines is also real, at least inside of the imagination.

Which exists within the mind.

Anyway, OP; if you really want to see goblins and fairies, then lock yourself in a room and throw away the key - sooner or later your moisture deprivated biological infrastructure will allow you to see anything you want.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:03 AM
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If you want to know about the things that don't exist within the imagination, then stop trying to imagine them and just accept that there are things in the world you don't know about.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:32 AM
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okies
kinda sounds like your ticked off at me for writing this thread. Hmm odd. Didnt know it tick you off like that... sorry to offend. It however is a question.

One that I asked cause I did not know the answer in enough detail to make a call.

How about Zombies? From what I understand in Voodoo circles Zombies are humans that have been given a certain drug that induces the efect of someone that might be the walking dead. However these people are alive but the drug itself makes the mind basically go limp and self controll is no longer an option.

What do you make of this?



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:33 AM
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What that crazy guy vanitas says holds some truth, except of course he failed to mention that the imagination is perfectly real, so therefore whatever the imagination imagines is also real, at least inside of the imagination.


It's SHE - the crazy guy, I mean...


And I may have many faults, but lack of mental and logical discernment (in this case, between real/unreal, imagination/fantasy etc.) is not one of them.
Thankfully, others (including Tibetan monks, Sufis ad others) have expounded the creativity of the Mind - so I don't have to.
(Which is good, because I really don't feel inclined to do so... :-)







[edit on 5-5-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 10:48 AM
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They expounded the creativity of the mind, yes.

But that is still within the mind.

Don't forget, it is the mind that allows us to see, touch, hear and taste in the first place, and as such it is the mind that represents the world.

So in a very real sense, it's all in the mind.

p.s; have you got a link or an article or something explaining how the tibetan monks have 'expounded the creativity of the mind' btw?

I'm quite interested to see where you've been getting your info.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Heres an interesting article about Tulpas

It's because I don't know which makes me wonder and ask questions. I don't claim to have any real answers but I do have questions.

More about Tulpas

Interesting article about Zombies



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Anti-Tyrant
They expounded the creativity of the mind, yes.

But that is still within the mind.

Don't forget, it is the mind that allows us to see, touch, hear and taste in the first place, and as such it is the mind that represents the world.

So in a very real sense, it's all in the mind.

p.s; have you got a link or an article or something explaining how the tibetan monks have 'expounded the creativity of the mind' btw?

I'm quite interested to see where you've been getting your info.



No, no: the Mind.
(My choice of capital letters is hardly ever arbitrary.
)

I think you're referring to the brain.
The Mind, of course, is a much wider concept - or should I say entity?
(Yes, I should - perhaps some other time... : )

I am sure there are a lot of relevant links, but since my interest in (and experience of) topics that transcend the usual consensus goes way back, to times before the advent of the internet, I really couldn't recommend any. (Besides, one has to be ready to accept the information of any text as valid, at the very least, before the text can even speak to you).
But I can say there are some wonderfully useful threads right here, on ATS.
(Most of them in the irritatingly-called "paranormal" forum.)

However, the most relevant information I get from the best possible source: yours truly.
(And that should be true of everyone!)

What comes from outside sources, can only serve as a cautious confirmation - or an impulse to pursue a given line of thought.












[edit on 5-5-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 


There's another facet to this issue: people's willingness to believe what they want to believe, over what they know they should.

If your relative dies, you're probably going to want some evidence before you accept it. When you buy a TV you probably want some evidence that it's not going to blow up when you take it home. Yet, for some strange reason, lots of people will say "Yup! Bigfoot exists!" without using even one percent of that rational thinking. I guess if it means more to them that Bigfoot exists than them being rational, then you'll end up with a believer.

My money is on folk tales, possibly based on real, yet misindentified, creatures, being perceived as more factual than they actually are, due to the age of the story and mutations that occur when the story is re-told. That would explain every single cryptid that's devoid of evidence in one go - Bigfoot, Yeti, Nessie, etc.

Either that or there are hoardes of self-sustaining societies of cryptids successfully hiding out in the wilderness, for tens of thousands of years, and cunningly removing any trace of their lineage from the fossil record.

Your choice



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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In the world of Quantum physics there is a very serious therory that asks the question. If no one were to look at the moon would it actually be there? Interestingly (to me anyway) scientists with all their mathematical equations do not have a concerete answer. Recently I have seen more and more evidence that suggests "Reality" is very much shaped buy the mind. There is even some evindence that light particles are effected by the vibrations in DNA (of which there are only 2 fear and love) . With this in mind it is not dificult to come to the conclution that it is the mind that creates the world you live in. That would make it entirely possible for absolutly anything to be real.
I personally am reserving judgment on that one but I am keeping an open mind.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:02 PM
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In the world of Quantum physics there is a very serious therory that asks the question. If no one were to look at the moon would it actually be there? Interestingly (to me anyway) scientists with all their mathematical equations do not have a concerete answer. Recently I have seen more and more evidence that suggests "Reality" is very much shaped buy the mind. There is even some evindence that light particles are effected by the vibrations in DNA (of which there are only 2 fear and love) . With this in mind it is not difficult to come to the conclution that it is the mind that creates the world you live in. That would make it entirely possible for absolutly anything to be real.
I personally am reserving judgment on that one but I am keeping an open mind.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:26 PM
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I personally am reserving judgment on that one but I am keeping an open mind.



Ah, the infamous Schroedinger's cat...!

(I think this particular example - or the one with the tree in a forest - actually may have been counterproductive as far as the perception of Quantum physics on the part of the general public goes. But my quibbles with it have little to do with this thread, so I might as well let it go...)

I singled the quote above because I happen to believe that the importance of keeping a (truly!) open mind cannot be over-emphasised - ever.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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reply to post by whatukno
 



Whatukno, you may be interested to know that Charlotte Bronte apparently created - unwittingly - a very real-looking apparition that corresponded, trait by trait, to the fictitious "count of Zamorna" (I think that was his name, I am too lazy to check it up right now) that she and her siblings had been actively "creating" in their fantasy ever since they were children.

My guess is, he was the image of her "ideal man". She certainly seems to have fashioned him in such a guise.

And one day - you may believe this or not - "he" actually walked into the room where she was writing... (Not about him, this was when she was already an adult and had started writing fiction in earnest.)
She was too scared to let "him" linger around. And he never appeared again - at least not that we know.

Good luck with finding this story on the WWW.
I only know about it because I heard it from a person who may be one of the best Bronte connoisseurs in the world. But if you - or anyone - happen to find it, do let me know.









[edit on 5-5-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:36 PM
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If there was only one consciousness in the world, then maybe reality would conform to what that consciousness perceived it to be. But there is not, nor has there ever been, only one consciousness. Reality is a multi-dimensional construct of all consciousnesses of the past, present and future, working together and intertwining to give the universe coherent structure and substance. Everything from a little microscopic bacteria in the gut of a worm, to a person, to a mouse, to a cell in the trunk of a tree. All sensing and experiencing and collapsing the quantum wave function.

The only place where an individual can make a significant difference is in your own mind. You can imagine a shiny green apple, and sure enough electricity and chemicals will fire in your brain so that you can see that apple. But it's just some chemicals and electricity. You still can't eat it.



posted on May, 5 2008 @ 06:47 PM
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You still can't eat it.



Oh, but you can!


And that is no joke.
Obviously, I am not referring to the same phenomenon as the Bronte apparition (see below), but then neither are you.

Materialisation is possible.
It may not be a very common occurrence - at least so far as the reports available to the public are concerned - but it does exist.

Of course, there is no use even trying to convince anyone, on this forum or elsewhere. It's a matter of everyone's underlying perception and understanding of the world.

OR, perhaps, it's even more than that... As I said in another thread, there is a possibility - there must be, or I wouldn't have thought of it - that phenomena can objectively, as it were, exist or not exist in a person's world according to that person's beliefs.







[edit on 5-5-2008 by Vanitas]



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