The Creation of Israel does NOT fulfill Biblical Prophecy

The creation of the modern state of Israel is not a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. God did not create Israel, the UN did. God is not the UN. Many would argue the UN is the "antichrist" and part of the evil world government.

This is not "god's will", but free will. People created Israel. I'm sorry religious folks, but the second coming of Jesus is not happening anytime soon.

If god did in fact reinstate the Jewish state of Israel, that would be one thing. I for one do not believe the UN speaks for god, so that is simply not the case.

I’ve been thinking the exact same thing for ages but for some it’s just too hard to comprehend.

Though I have my own theory that Jews had some influence in the UN back then that caused Palestine to be renamed back to Israel. Don’t forget Israel was once named Canaan until the Jews conquered Canaan and renamed it Israel. In 135 AD the name was once again changed to Palestine after the Romans conquered it.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
The creation of the modern state of Israel is not a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. God did not create Israel, the UN did. God is not the UN. Many would argue the UN is the "antichrist" and part of the evil world government.

This is not "god's will", but free will. People created Israel. I'm sorry religious folks, but the second coming of Jesus is not happening anytime soon.

If god did in fact reinstate the Jewish state of Israel, that would be one thing. I for one do not believe the UN speaks for god, so that is simply not the case.

Sorry Big, but I got to disagree with you and have heard this argument before. As much as I'd like to make god work in my own way, it simply doesn't work that way, not for me and not for you.

If the Jews had fought for the land and won it completely in a war without the UN diplomacy, you'd say they simply forced it to be fulfilled. So God can't win with people like this.

The Facts are, it IS biblical and it DID happen. How God chooses to get this done is his business. If you want to second guess him or say he wouldn't have done it because of this or that, I got to commend you on your intimate knowledge of how God should do things. How many times does Israel have to become a nation till you approve of the way God did it or till we can know when to ask you how much sooner or later the second coming is? The Bible has never needed the approval of any disbeliever much less the believer. It just says what it says.

The world according to Biggie smalls is no differen't then the world according to Garp or Forrest Gump.

It's Biblical and it was prophesy which did what? Became a fact whether you want to believe God did it


or not

- Con

[edit on 30-4-2008 by Conspiriology]

Hitler could have won world war II and exterminated all the Jews as well, the UN or Christians didn't set up the outcome of world war two to "fulfill" prophecy either. If the allies had lost the war the prophecy would not have been fulfilled and you might have a point (but you would be posting it in German). There's no way we could have manipulated the outcome of the war. The Bible predicted it thousands of years ago, then it happened in 1948, that is the definition of a fulfilled prophecy.

[edit on 4/30/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Hitler could have won world war II and exterminated all the Jews as well, the UN or Christians didn't set up the outcome of world war two to "fulfill" prophecy either. If the allies had lost the war the prophecy would not have been fulfilled and you might have a point (but you would be posting it in German). There's no way we could have manipulated the outcome of the war.

[edit on 4/30/2008 by Bigwhammy]

The Bible predicted it thousands of years ago, then it happened in 1948, that is the definition of a fulfilled prophecy.

Exactly! and I might add the most compelling part of the whole scenario.
If that wasn't prophesy fulfilled then nothing is.

If that isn't GOOD enough to be considered prophesy fulfilled then nothing ever will be and we may as well just close the thread right here.

I mean it can't get any better then that.

Great Post whammo

- Con

Is it plausible that the UN could have made Palestine Israel because they wanted the bible prophecy to become true so they made it true




[edit on 30-4-2008 by andre18]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Hitler could have won world war II and exterminated all the Jews as well, the UN or Christians didn't set up the outcome of world war two to "fulfill" prophecy either. If the allies had lost the war the prophecy would not have been fulfilled and you might have a point (but you would be posting it in German). There's no way we could have manipulated the outcome of the war. The Bible predicted it thousands of years ago, then it happened in 1948, that is the definition of a fulfilled prophecy.

And how do you know the leaders of the Western world didn't have the bible in mind? They certainly did.

AND THAT IS WHY THEY CREATED ISRAEL. They wanted to be a part of fulfilling the prophecy, but god did not oversee the creation of this state.

The United Nations created Israel. That is not god.

Originally posted by Conspiriology
If the Jews had fought for the land and won it completely in a war without the UN diplomacy, you'd say they simply forced it to be fulfilled. So God can't win with people like this.

They have fought for land. They have conquered land over the past 50 years.

They have also created a genocide against their Semitic Palestinian neighbors. Does your bible mention anything about that?

So much for god's chosen people, eh?

How God chooses to get this done is his business. If you want to second guess him or say he wouldn't have done it because of this or that, I got to commend you on your intimate knowledge of how God should do things.

See that's the problem right there. God is not a "he". You got the whole gender issue wrong. What happened to the feminine side of god, is that not represented these days?

I don't know what god is going to do, or what it is not going to do. I honestly don't think humans are special enough to warrant any attention. We're a colony of ants that can't keep from killing each other. That's pretty sad and pathetic.

The god I know is not worried about protecting or saving humanity, it is a part of us. We are killing ourselves over a made up belief system. Its insanity.

The state of Israel has nothing to do with the biblical state of Israel. That is my point. Today's state is a Zionist fascist puppet state and a poor example for Jewish people everywhere. There are many Jewish people who are speaking out against the atrocities their own government is committing.

Israeli ex-soldiers expose abuse of Palestinians

Israel Soldier's Torture Habit

How many times does Israel have to become a nation till you approve of the way God did it or till we can know when to ask you how much sooner or later the second coming is? The Bible has never needed the approval of any disbeliever much less the believer. It just says what it says.

When Jesus steps out of the sky, that'll be my answer. Until that time, its not a fulfillment of anything other than human greed and destruction. If that was your god's intention, to create a war zone out of the entire middle east, then "he" did a great job .

It's Biblical and it was prophesy which did what? Became a fact whether you want to believe God did it or not

That's like saying I predicted I was going to eat a cheese sandwich for lunch today because I wrote it down a few weeks ago.

Please.

Originally posted by Conspiriology

The Bible predicted it thousands of years ago, then it happened in 1948, that is the definition of a fulfilled prophecy.

Exactly! and I might add the most compelling part of the whole scenario.
If that wasn't prophesy fulfilled then nothing is.

If that isn't GOOD enough to be considered prophesy fulfilled then nothing ever will be and we may as well just close the thread right here.

Did your bible predict the Palestinian genocide perpetrated by the state of Israel? There's nothing in there about their wickedness is their?

How about their constant warmongering towards Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Iran, Jordan, and I'm sure others than I've left out?

Doesn't mention how they'll disrupt peace in the middle east now does it?

Originally posted by andre18
Is it plausible that the UN could have made Palestine Israel because they wanted the bible prophecy to become true so they made it true

You know I was going to add that last night into my original post, but I decided not to.

Yes, what if the founders of the UN were thinking of biblical prophecy when they created the state of Israel.

Israel's creation depended heavily on the actions of H.V. Evatt, the enigmatic Australian statesman who served as president of the U.N. General Assembly at the time of Israel's admission to the United Nations. A brilliant jurist and Labor attorney-general and external affairs minister, Evatt first came to international prominence as an architect of the U.N. Charter at the 1945 San Francisco conference, which saw the world body established. The New York Times named him the "outstanding figure of the conference."

Evatt then guided the 1947 Palestine partition plan through the U.N.; in so doing, he transformed the history of the modern Middle East. Yet researching his role is unusually difficult, because Evatt was a cagey individual who kept no diary, corresponded little and had a tendency to appropriate official papers. He was given to spying on his own bureaucracy and engineered friends and associates into positions of power. It was thus that he placed his confidante, Sam Atyeo, and a career diplomat, John Hood, to handle the Palestine brief when the British turned the mandate over to the United Nations.

Israel's creation: The untold diplomatic story

reply to post by biggie smalls


Bingo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! actually it was pushed by the US but guess what our nation knew about that prophecy, I truly believe that the pushing of the creation of the Jewish nation had the religious agenda written all over.

Another prophecy in the interest of Religiopolitical reasons.

reply to post by marg6043


How could America benefit from a US puppet in the middle east? They could easily access the oil wells and invade countries that they didn't like from their home base in Jerusalem.

The state of Israel is a strategic military base and nothing more. No prophecy, just politics.

Thanks marg for bringing that up, I was completely forgetting about that side of the story!

I thought this was rather interesting:

The Holocaust, the killing of approximately 6 million European Jews by the Nazis, had a major impact on the situation in Palestine. During World War II Britain, which had been granted a mandate over Palestine by the United Nations, forbade entry into Palestine for European Jews escaping Nazi persecution.

Britain didn't care to let Jews into Palestine during World War 2, so what changed their mind afterwards? Oh yeah, the genocide of Jews...

And what are the Israelis doing to their Palestinian neighbors now? What's happening in Gaza alone is enough to warrant a war crimes tribunal. If you don't know what is going on, the Israelis have blockaded the Gaza strip due to "terrorism" regardless of the million civilian. Its not like they matter or anything.

On November 29, 1947, the United Nations General Assembly voted 33 to 13, with 10 abstentions, in favor of a Partition Plan that created the State of Israel. The British reliquished their mandate over Palestine in 1948. War broke out between the Arabs and Jews soon after. The 1948 Arab-Israeli War, established the state of Israel as an independent state, with the rest of the British Mandate of Palestine split into areas controlled by Egypt and Transjordan.

Thus begins the Israeli invasions of the middle east. Nice.

In 1949, Israel signed separate cease-fire agreements with Egypt on February 24, Lebanon on March 23, Transjordan on April 3, and Syria on July 20. Israel was able to draw its own borders, occupying 70% of Mandatory Palestine, fifty percent more than the UN partition proposal allotted them. These borders have been known afterwards as the "Green Line". The Gaza Strip and West Bank were occupied by Egypt and Transjordan respectively.

Invasion and occupation at its finest.

While the establishment of the state of Israel was seen by Christian Zionists as a sign that God was fulfilling his promises to Abraham and Jacob, the early political leaders of Israel were primarily secular. David Ben Gurion, Israel's Prime Minister from the founding of Israel until 1963, represented the secular Ideals of the early Zionists. For practical reasons, Ben Gurion accepted the boundaries that excluded the ancient Jewish lands of Samaria and Judea in the West Bank. The early Israeli leaders also agreed to a divided Jerusalem.

If this map below really is the ancient state of Israel, why hasn't the modern state followed the parameters? Could it be they're more worried about owning land than god? Hm..



[edit on 4/30/2008 by biggie smalls]

Here is the historical accounts of our nation involvement in the creation of the Jewish state.

Kind of Zionist won over the white house thing.

President Harry S. Truman and US Support for Israeli Statehood

www.mideastweb.org...

I think that back then, US was the poppet of the Jewish pushing the statehood.

Biggie you have done a great job making your case, but unfortunately this is another unwinnable argument. Those who believe that it is fulfilling a prophesy will continue to hide behind the argument of 'the mysterious ways God works' and 'who's to say He didn't influence the UN'

I predict this thread will go the way of so many threads here. Expect religious **SNIP** gang posts soon

Mod edit for civility.


[edit on 30-4-2008 by NGC2736]

reply to post by biggie smalls

And how do you know the leaders of the Western world didn't have the bible in mind? They certainly did.

So having the "Bible in mind" guaranteed them victory over Hitler and the Nazis. Wow scripture is powerful stuff huh?

The thing that is so ignorant about your idea is that Israel was not a nation from 70 AD until 1948. There was no UN or USA then. All sorts of things could have happened during that time to prevent them from ever reforming. Rome and Adolf Hitler being big ones. But they survived...

AND THAT IS WHY THEY CREATED ISRAEL. They wanted to be a part of fulfilling the prophecy, but god did not oversee the creation of this state.

The United Nations created Israel. That is not god.

Sorry your wrong, again... Israel was actually created by God way back before Christ as told in the Old Testament.



[edit on 4/30/2008 by Bigwhammy]

The Isreal of bible times was decimated, scattered, gone. For it to be resurrected is certainly a rare occurrence. Maybe Biggie can point out a few other examples of a long dead scattered nation coming back as a nation again. Oh and add that happens to be a clear biblical prophecy..(again see Ezekial). Also mix in a dash of Christ mentioning budding of fig tree parable in Matthew 24:32 in end times.

Sure no announcemnt on Mt Sinai or anything..God works in spite of men he has to use. Get used to Isreal it isn't goign away.

reply to post by biggie smalls


Jews throughout the history kept connection to this land, in historical documents , religious rituals and texts, and when they could - in physical presence.
So UN's vote was not on empty spot. For your information, when leaders of Zionist movement suggested Uganda as a new place for a "new" Jewish nation, they did not succeed to gain support.
As for "genocide" remark -
genocide:

The systematic and planned extermination of an entire national, racial, political, or ethnic group.

education.yahoo.com...
National: Palestinians now have an autonomy (which they never had) and are on the way to gain Independence (which they also never had).
Racial: Numbers of Palestinians and Israeli Arabs are growing, and faster then any other demographic group.
Political: There are Palestinian political parties not only in Palestine, but also in Israeli parliament.
Ethnic: Numbers grow as i stated, and majority of Israeli Arabs can (and are) considering them-self Palestinians.
Not the first time i post it ,but never anyone disputed it. People prefer to ignore the facts and continue to smear Israel's image for political reasons. However this political usage makes the concept itself cheaper and cheaper.
As for map you provided - you do not have to know the history of the area, but don't you think that Damascus being in Israel and Jerusalem not is at least weird? Because what you show is Israel... And the area below is Judea. After king Solomon died, for political reasons Jewish kingdom of Israel split to Jewish kingdom of Israel and Jewish kingdom of Judea. The map of Israel in the times of Solomon:
www.gregwolf.com...
Also you forgot to mention why the Arab-Israeli war started. So i will help you out. The UN partition plan was not accepted by Arabs, and once Israel declared Independence, Arab countries declared war in which some territories were lost.
And by the way, i have no claims on Damascus.

There is a philosophical argument I would like to make. A prophecy can only be fulfilled if we make it so. I would say that all the creation of Jerusalem means is that we are continuing down the path of these prophesies, and may reach the end we expect.

[edit on 30/4/08 by Graber]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
The creation of the modern state of Israel is not a fulfillment of biblical prophecy. God did not create Israel, the UN did.

God did not state how it would take place, only that it would. Whether it was done by people seeking to fulfill prophecy or simply because the leaders at the time thought that it was a good idea, the fact is, it happened. Just as the Bible said it would. Just as God didn't explain the how of Nebuchadnezzar's dream that Daniel interpreted to be the fall of Babylon, Persia, Greece and Rome, but only that it would take place. From a historical, secular sense, you can see how Persia set out to destroy Babylon, just as Greece set out to destroy Persia. Does that mean, then, that, though God had said it would happen, it wasn't God because world powers brought the prophecy about?