Phoenix UFO mystery Solved

There are a lot of good theories here! I personally would like to see someone try and re-create this. Perhaps in the desert or somewhere away from the city so as not to get in trouble. If you can re-create this event, it would give the "explination" more credit. I personally dont think it was flares, there are just too many things that would have to go perfect in order for it to work but, I certainly could be wrong.

I'd just like to add, I would also like to see a recreation done,
HOWEVER please please please don't anyone do it during the dry season in the American Southwest. It's just too dangerous.

If there is someone who lives in a remote area with cold weather and a good deal of humidity in the air, by all means let's see a recreation.

I remember too well the fire season last year in SoCal. I remember having to make sure that my parents were evacuated (for almost a week) to a safe location while one of the many fires began to encroach upon the neighborhood they live in. I also remember checking the news each morning before going to work, to make sure that my office was still there (in Santa Monica at the time, the fire near pepperdine was spreading down past Malibu down the coast. We could see the flames from work, and the entire coastline was engulfed in smoke).

Please, I'm all for serious research, and for the testing of hypotheses, but let's all just remember to keep it safe. There are people here at ATS from all over the world. If someone from a firesafe region can conduct this experiment, I think that would be smart.

Also, involving your local fire dept. is a great idea. Let them know where you're going to be and what you'll be doing. Firemen (as a general rule, being the grandson of a Fire Chief) are interested only in making sure your experiment doesn't light the state on fire. They have the means and resources to keep your experiment (of this nature) safe.

So if anyone is going to try to recreate this, please do it in a safe manner, and in accordance with some Fire Personnel.

But by all means, if you can do it safely, I'd love to see video of a recreation.

-WFA

Originally posted by TheJosh
I am planning to recreat this stunt, except I will not be using road flares, I found a 8-pack of cheap-o flashlights that weigh ~9oz, and I found some large balloons. I just need to see how much helium costs, I might get the balloons filled up at party city or near by.

I will be launching them from an undisclosed location in the north valley, on monday or tuesday night around 8pm.

I want to make the news, and see how many people I can trick.

That sounds like an idea, alot less dangerous than flares, but I still kinda feel it might put aircraft in danger, just be careful and maybe go a bit northwest of city limits, i'd say go out to lake pleasant, but that might be kinda far to see from the city. I'll keep an eye out on monday and tuesday.

They seem to not be moving at all which seems odd to me.

In all videos i've seen of UFO's, at least one of the ufos/lights/specks, or what ever, has always been moving, or at least shifting.

Is there a better vidoe of this?

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
I'd just like to add, I would also like to see a recreation done,
HOWEVER please please please don't anyone do it during the dry season in the American Southwest.

If there is someone who lives in a remote area with cold weather and a good deal of humidity in the air, by all means let's see a recreation.

Please, I'm all for serious research, and for the testing of hypotheses,
If someone from a firesafe region can conduct this experiment, I think that would be smart.

Also, involving your local fire dept. is a great idea. Let them know where you're going to be and what you'll be doing.

i appreciate your CYA priorities.....

consider that going to a wet climate will not re-create what transpired there in Phoenix...in the spring time. You are changing the basic 'conditions'... there ain't too many places with anything similar to the Valley of the Sun wind currents/humidity/out-at-night population, etc !

next off.. road flares are sent through the mail/delivery system as
Haz-Mat items.... so there is NO WAY that Local fire departments/ fire Marshalls are going to get-on-board with some lit road flares tied to helium balloons to float over their city or rural environs.

Originally posted by St Udio
next off.. road flares are sent through the mail/delivery system as
Haz-Mat items.... so there is NO WAY that Local fire departments/ fire Marshalls are going to get-on-board with some lit road flares tied to helium balloons to float over their city or rural environs.

Right. But somehow, many seem more than willing to believe that an individual who is outted and even admits on national television, to doing just that (but even moreover in the flight paths of a few airports) is somehow facing NO legal action whatsoever. The man even said a passing airliner caused the turbulence that made the flares change position. Again, if true, hundreds of lives were put in possible danger, yet they all just laugh it off as a funny hoax?

Originally posted by St Udio
i appreciate your CYA priorities.....

I'm not sure that's exactly the most polite reference. I think you should re-read my entire post. It's not my *ss that needs covering, it's the southwest. If you think I'm kidding about the extent of the fires, check here:
www.google.com...

Originally posted by St Udio
consider that going to a wet climate will not re-create what transpired there in Phoenix...in the spring time. You are changing the basic 'conditions'... there ain't too many places with anything similar to the Valley of the Sun wind currents/humidity/out-at-night population, etc !

I've considered it, and it's possible that you are correct. However I would submit that I've been all through the SouthWest several times for extended periods, and once you are far enough inland in California, it's all the same. There are slight variations, but enough to make it a fair comparison.

Originally posted by St Udio
next off.. road flares are sent through the mail/delivery system as
Haz-Mat items.... so there is NO WAY that Local fire departments/ fire Marshalls are going to get-on-board with some lit road flares tied to helium balloons to float over their city or rural environs.

Well, you never know until you ask one, and I'm willing to bet there are some who would do it. There are areas around Phoenix where it would be safe. There is a lot of bare desert in the desert.

I used to go riding on four-wheelers out in the desert with my friend who lived in phoenix. If you go up 'Mythbusters' style to a Fire house and ask straight faced what the best place to conduct the experiment was, I'd bet they'll tell you.

Firemen (in my experience) are generally concerned with keeping fires out. If I were the Fireman in question, I'd not only tell you where the safest place would be, but I'd want to be there when you did it (because how could I stop you from doing it even if I ordered you not to?) to make sure nothing terrible happens. I'd want some portable water trucks on the scene and mobile, and I'd want a radio and a good set of binoculars and my crew there with me.

I was actually giving honest advice to anyone who would try this on their own. I'm sorry that you misinterpreted.

-WFA

The Dumbing down of the American population by the mainstream media continues. The pictures provided in no way shape or form show the signature of a burning flare. How stupid are we really? Don't answer that.
Infra red/Ultra violet film of the lights would have been nice. The media by trotting out this ridiculous explanation instead of holding the type of investigation that would pry out some real answers shows a complete and utter lack of regard for the public they purport to serve.
ARIZONA has TWICE now been the scene of a major flyover event, the same night lights were seen in Florida..pictures show them to be very similar to the Arizona lights (at least to my eyes). TWICE in the same place..Twice in the same way...What do you want to bet that there will be a third time?
Why Arizona? Dry air perfect for Holographic laser projection?
We still can't find out what happened here on earth on Sept 11th.
Good luck finding out what goes on in the sky's at night over your head.
When we have a mass daylight sighting for a long period of time multiple video sources and various locations then perhaps we may finally get the truth.

Yups some footage having more to show then lights in the pitch would be nice. Now all you have is something that tends to suggest a huge structure. It is in the eye of the beholder to believe it is something huge, but believing is not proving that it is.

It is way too easy to launch some balloons (bound together with fishing line if you want them to stay together.) each carrying some sort of light source to have lights in the skies account for something else these days. Daytime footage, clearly showing the lights are part of a solid structure would be blowing the balloon-theory out of existence. The lack of this footage though is putting the weight on the other end of the scale. Anyone can create seemingly huge UFO’s in the dark.

The illusion falls apart when the background isn’t pitch, though

reply to post by D.Wolf


I'm not sure how many people will bother to watch that video all the way through. But I did, and I have to say that your comparison is quite flawed.

Not ONCE did these sky lanterns stay in an approximate formation throughout their entire filmed journey. Constantly they were changing positions in the sky as they ascended, affected logically by wind.

This video (and every other sky lantern video I've ever seen) fails to demonstrate:
1) The lights staying in Direct Proportion to one another, and remaining so for the duration of filming.
2) Evenly spaced lights, that remain evenly spaced for the duration of filming.
3) Lights that appear to blink on and off in sequence from left to right while satisfying the above criteria.

And I'm having trouble understanding how fishing line is supposed to keep anything in formation or evenly spaced...

A tie line like that would keep things from drifting too far apart, but you would need a taut rod or pole to keep floating objects in a tight formation.

Something like that (in the case of sky lanterns and commercial helium balloons) would weigh more than the floaters themselves could support with their collective lift. You would need a professional grade weather balloon to lift a support structure with that much weight. I know this for a fact, check out the formulas for lift:
www.chem.hawaii.edu...

But MOSTLY, there is NO 'illusion' that 'goes away' when the sky isn't pitch black. That's just simply a blatant mischaracterization of this comparison video most people won't take the time to watch.

Not cool.

-WFA

Didn’t you watch the video of the 2008 phoenix lights either?

Well, the phoenixlights 2008 went from diamond shaped to triangular shaped within a few minutes, appearing different throughout the footage. Those lights were anything but fixed.

Shapeshifting clearly

Lights in the sky are beautiful and mysterious and called ufos but when they are somewhat easy riding the sky in a shape shifting formation going out of existence one after the other, you can probably find a life form in a bush rolling on its back laughing its balls of.


When ufos are concerned, I like to put logic over magic. That means: putting manmade over alien: the phoenixlights 2008 being anything but proven to be magic are manmade.

What are they then? A balloon scam.

Why: Easy riding the sky, shape shifting formation, pitch-black background. No sound. And an obvious sign of lights running out of fuel; them blinking out of existence one after the other. But above all, lights in the sky are so easy to make, my eight year old chipmunk could launch them from scratch without any help.

Now I don’t care if that is cool or not, I put manmade above alien and from there you can go and prove manmade wrong:

FE: what kind of winds were there on that location:


WIND (MPH)
HIGHEST WIND SPEED 16 HIGHEST WIND DIRECTION W (270)
HIGHEST GUST SPEED 20 HIGHEST GUST DIRECTION W (260)
AVERAGE WIND SPEED 5.8

april 21 phoenix


That does not proof the balloon theory wrong. That’s easy riding the sky casual shape shifting on their way.


Oke, what direction were those lights heading then?

scource
A man in north Phoenix told CBS-5: ``They were about 3,000 feet high, approximately. They looked as though they were kind of hovering or floating from west to east, very slowly. They were up there for 15 or 20 minutes."

Callers said the lights appeared at one point in a straight line, and also formed a square and then a triangle. They were visible for about 15 minutes around 8 p.m. before heading to the east and disappearing.

So they went in the direction of the wind.

Now here is where I would say case closed but that’s just me.

reply to post by D.Wolf


D. Wolf, I think you and I had a misunderstanding here, and I apologize for my part in the confusion.

I was refering to the original Phoenix Lights footage, and you were obviously (although I didn't understand it in your first post) refering to this latest footage.

If you go back to read the thread you will find early on that I agreed with much of what you're saying in your reply in regards to this latest footage.

However, what puzzles me now is the lack of attention these two have received (as is apparent from the media coverage on this latest case) from law enforcement authorities.

The story stinks, IMHO. I'm not saying I have a better explanation. But when it occurs that a story stinks on several levels, I prefer not to label a case closed.

You could well be right, in regards to this latest case, but my statements above still apply to the original Phoenix Lights affair. This latest video, if nothing else, just proves that the original footage is not easily duplicated with flares and balloons, if that is the mechanism we are in fact observing.

-WFA

www.opednews.com...

The above link may have some new information (?) Interesting story, still leaves unanswered questions.

reply to post by 27jd


Sorry for the late reply, theres quite a few of these threads concerning these 4 lights!

Who said it HAS to be aliens???

The inability of some to accept rational explanations. Even top secret military craft is not feasible.
Gentlemen! Here's our brand new aircraft? Where shall we test it?

See, that's what makes it look like you have some kind of agenda. Are you intentionally overlooking that there was burning magnesium sent up on those balloons? Do you have any idea what could have happened if road flares were sucked into the intake of an airliner?? I don't, but I'm sure it's not something that the authorities would just laugh off. It was not the "4 balloons" that is the issue here, it's the incendiary devices he attached to them that are dangerous.

An agenda? Do you mean am I paid to spread disinformation or am I a hoaxer? The answer is yes to one of those questions.
As for the comment about airliners. Why would an airliner be flying that low and off its designated flightpath??
Give the guy some credit. He would obviously know if he was on a flight path. Airliners are big noisy things.
Its probably one of the factors the FAA have already had a look at, and thought better of it. If the flares were secured, which they were as none of them fell, he had the balloons tethered, so governing the height and how far they would spread, and kept an eye (like some of Phoenix were) on them, then he could avert catastrophe. Any defense lawyer would be arguing those points and more against a prosecution.

So, how would the flares not burn through the holding lines, and fall to the ground?

Depending on the type of flare used, will answer why it didn't burn through the line. Some road flares can be held in the hand, therefore refer to my earlier point which was:

try putting the holding line around the flare then to the balloon. A large enough gap between the flare and balloon will prevent complications

Originally posted by Mark Roazhar
An agenda? Do you mean am I paid to spread disinformation or am I a hoaxer? The answer is yes to one of those questions.

Pardon me for interrupting Mark, I often enjoy reading your posts here so please forgive me if this sounds rude, but would you mind explaining your above quoted text?

Originally posted by Mark Roazhar
If the flares were secured, which they were as none of them fell, he had the balloons tethered, so governing the height and how far they would spread, and kept an eye (like some of Phoenix were) on them, then he could avert catastrophe. Any defense lawyer would be arguing those points and more against a prosecution.

I find it suspicious that a defense lawyer has yet to be appointed (as reported in the media), since no charges have been filed. That seems very mysterious to me in and of itself. I'm pretty sure that if I'd tried a stunt like this and then went on the news about it, I'd be sitting in a jail cell at the moment. What happened to these two guys?

Originally posted by Mark Roazhar
Depending on the type of flare used, will answer why it didn't burn through the line. Some road flares can be held in the hand, therefore refer to my earlier point which was:

try putting the holding line around the flare then to the balloon. A large enough gap between the flare and balloon will prevent complications

Okay, but this doesn't explain how the flare wouldn't burn through the holding line. Yes these flares can be held in the hand. But they can't be held in the hand directly beneath your arm, you hold them upright and wave them like a glow baton. If you suspended a flare from a string hangin from your arm you would burn your arm (if the flare was too close) and eventually the flare would burn through the holding line.

At any rate, I'm not sure I understand much of your last post, would you mind explaining in further detail, especially that first quote...

-WFA

It's strange that it got unnoticed, but ive posted an update on April 26,
Here

UFO Alert: FAA Silences Air Traffic Controllers and Hoax Theory has Problems
by Bill Knell
April 26, 2008 at 06:44:46

On Monday, April 21, 2008, odd red lights appeared in the sky over Phoenix, Arizona. Video and photos were taken and Air Traffic Controllers in the main tower at Sky Harbor International Airport saw them. The FFA says that the lights did not appear on radar and weren't a threat to any air traffic, so no action was taken. However, the FAA has issued a statement saying that they will not allow the Air Traffic Controllers to talk about what they saw.

According to regional FAA Spokesperson Ian Gregor, it's against agency policy to allow the ATCs to discuss what they saw. The Phoenix New Times reported the story about the silencing of the Sky Harbor Air Traffic Controllers. They have already filed an official request to receive any documents or recordings that contain statements about the lights by the ATCs.

After hearing the hoax story, I contacted a friend who lives in Phoenix. He agreed to try and reach Mailo or his neighbor. Since the article came out on Tuesday, attempts to contact Lino Mailo have failed. He does not answer his door and his neighbor wasn't home when my friend stopped by on two occasions. In fact, people living two houses down from Mailo say that they know Lino's next store neighbor and he was not home on Monday night. They claim they were out in their own backyard that evening and would have seen balloons with flares being launched. They also agreed to ask him about the flare story when they next see or speak with him.

By contrast, a number of witnesses have come forward to say that jets took off from Luke Air Force Base on Monday night. Luke still claims they had no aircraft in the sky that evening.

Full article and source here

I would like to point out that i don't know the author of this article, so i don't know nothing about his reliability.
Does someone know Bill Knell?
Bill Knell link # 1
Bill Knell link # 2

This seems worthy to be discussed, to me

it doesnt matter, if you believe the bs balloon story your dumb, plain and simple...it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
Pardon me for interrupting Mark, I often enjoy reading your posts here so please forgive me if this sounds rude, but would you mind explaining your above quoted text?

I like to create hoaxes. I did mention in a previous thread that this year me and a couple of friends have been thinking about doing a couple of crop circles and seeing what the 'experts' think. Also been looking at how to create UFO hoaxes. I'm sure you'll understand if I play my cards close to my cherst on this one

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
I find it suspicious that a defense lawyer has yet to be appointed (as reported in the media), since no charges have been filed. That seems very mysterious to me in and of itself. I'm pretty sure that if I'd tried a stunt like this and then went on the news about it, I'd be sitting in a jail cell at the moment. What happened to these two guys?

No idea whats happened to the guy from the report. I was arguing for the reason as to why charges have not been brought forward. Before a case is suggested for trial, the lawyers will think of the arguments and counter arguments and weigh up the probability of success.

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
Okay, but this doesn't explain how the flare wouldn't burn through the holding line. Yes these flares can be held in the hand. But they can't be held in the hand directly beneath your arm, you hold them upright and wave them like a glow baton. If you suspended a flare from a string hangin from your arm you would burn your arm (if the flare was too close) and eventually the flare would burn through the holding line.

If you have just one line connected to the balloon(s - not sure how many were used) , then a decent distance below this balloon(s) tie a flare onto that same line.
Try it with a piece of string and a pen. Secure the pen half way along the string, then pull on both ends of the string, one hand will be the ground, the other balloon, and look at how the pen/flare works. If as I stated, the flare is one that can be held in the hand, then it wont burn through

Originally posted by mrbooms
it doesnt matter, if you believe the bs balloon story your dumb, plain and simple...it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

Dumb as in believing what is there plain and simple, or dumb as in your grammar?

internos - UFO Alert: FAA Silences Air Traffic Controllers and Hoax Theory has Problems

Ian Gregor, FAA regional spokesman, says the agency's policy won't allow controllers to comment even if they want to relate their experience.

Gregor confirmed that "several" air traffic controllers in the tower saw the staggered formation of mysterious lights moving in the sky, apparently over North Phoenix. He says he heard that second-hand, though -- the tower's manager told him about it.

The controllers didn't consider the source of the lights to be a hazard, because nothing was popping up on radar, Gregor says.

www.fourwinds10.com...
Sounds like they're sticking to their policy

[edit on 29-4-2008 by Mark Roazhar]

[edit on 29-4-2008 by Mark Roazhar]

reply to post by kleverone


I live in phoenix, and I think fox 10 had a interveiw with the pranksters neighbor, he said he looked over the fence and saw his neighbor setting off balloons and flares..
the prankster was also named during the article.. and it was a lenghly broadcast

Originally posted by Mark Roazhar
I like to create hoaxes.

Interesting confession. Admitting that you intentionally distract and toy with those who are searching for more info regarding UFO's certainly doesn't add much to your credibility as far as your argument on this thread.

I find it No idea whats happened to the guy from the report.

Nothing has happened to the guy.

I was arguing for the reason as to why charges have not been brought forward. Before a case is suggested for trial, the lawyers will think of the arguments and counter arguments and weigh up the probability of success.

Oh, okay. Sending flammable substances into the air over dry brush in the DIRECT flight path of a few airports is something they have to weigh whether to charge or not, huh? I HIGHLY doubt that. And yes, airliners come south directly over the area of this event at very low altitudes to land at Sky Harbor.

If as I stated, the flare is one that can be held in the hand, then it wont burn through

You know what flare was used? Please explain how you know that, and show us what flare besides, the LED ones that you can hold. Again, a BURNING flare, would BURN through fishing line, no matter where you tied it.

Regular road flares have been known to burn the uniform pants of deputies placing them on the roadway. Also the smoke generated from the conventional road flares on occasion has created a hazard by limiting the visibility of approaching drivers. Also the conventional road flares are made of sulfur, magnesium and other harmful chemicals that may cause health problems to some personnel.
emergencyroadflares.com...

[edit on 29-4-2008 by 27jd]