Phoenix UFO mystery Solved

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar



I completely agree with you. I think it is very fishy and seems too want to cause doubt in the original Phoenix Lights event, which I was looking at again today. In my opinion the original event in Phoenix was the real deal albiet Im not happy about just any ET's showing up.

I smell a fish farm in here! Don't they always cover up the big cases i guess?? Don' be fooled. Look around you, they think we are stupid but still the way i see it they always win because people aren't doing much about it.

Regards

A couple of points:

#1 Who is expending valuable energy engaging in UFO hoaxes?

a) some intelligence group with an agenda?

b) some unto here defined weirdo ?

c) It's not a hoax?

...and if you were engaged in a hoax would you make a video a few days later to "out your self"?

... or would you milk it until the the excitement died down then admit your hoax to maximize your fame time?


#2 Road flares tied to helium balloons ?

* Don't road flare have a tell tale flaring effect accompanies by smoke?

reply to post by cindymars


They have absolutely nothing to gain by connecting this to the Phoenix Lights if this were a disinfo campaign. Most people believe in the flare theory that was presented and the only ones who don't are people like us who are looked upon as crazy, so it's not like there was a threat of the public marching on Washington over the original Phoenix Lights. For the most part they have completely vanished from everyone's mind who didn't experience them or have an interest in Ufology. In fact if for some reason they felt the need to discredit the Phoenix Lights even further, this seems like the exact opposite way they would want to go about it as it gets the people who had forgotten about it to start thinking about it again. Using the new lights in Phoenix to discredit the original Phoenix Lights makes no sense.

Originally posted by Xcalibur254
They have absolutely nothing to gain by connecting this to the Phoenix Lights if this were a disinfo campaign. Most people believe in the flare theory that was presented and the only ones who don't are people like us who are looked upon as crazy, so it's not like there was a threat of the public marching on Washington over the original Phoenix Lights.

Maybe, but it is worth noting that the picture used on the front page for this article about the man claiming to have hoaxed Monday's event, was actually a picture from the event in 1997....

news.ktar.com...

But I still don't believe this explanation. Doesn't mean I believe it was aliens, but there are way too many holes in this story.

First, the legal aspect of this whole thing. Fireworks are illegal here. AZ defines a firework as:

any "combustible or explosive composition, substance or combination of substances, or any article prepared for the purpose of producing a visible or audible effect by combustion, explosion, deflagration or detonation..."
phoenix.about.com...

Burning magnesium used solely to create a visual hoax certainly fits that bill. Add that to the fact that we are still in a drought here, and the brush in this area is very dry and prone to wildfires. A joker admitted to sending burning magnesium tied to balloons into an area that has alot of brush, and has been hit with many devastating fires over the past few years, is certain to raise a fire marshall's eyebrow. Add that to the fact that these supposed flares were released into the air in very close proximity to 2 small airports (Deer Valley and Scottsdale), and the flight path of incoming commercial airliners heading into Sky Harbor (they saw it all the way from their tower on the other side of the valley), if true, that stunt very clearly put lives in danger. The man even says a jet passed by them close enough to affect their direction...

The man interviewed, who asked not to be identified, said he believed turbulence created by a passing jet caused the balloons to move around.
www.azfamily.com...

The FAA gets involved in incidents that are far less dangerous, where are they on this one? Even a police helicopter was involved...

Phoenix Police helicopter pilot Bruce Bates, who saw the lights, said the balloons explanation makes sense.
news.ktar.com...

So, this man admits to the world that he commited a serious crime, people have been charged for FAR less, yet, for some reason NO charges are filed?

Police will not investigate the mysterious lights seen flickering in the sky.
www.azfamily.com...

Opening the door for copycats to try the same thing, without fear of being arrested. It seems to me, if there were any truth to these claims, they would want to make an example out of him. But they're not interested. Hmmmm.

Another good point, brought up by a member in another thread....

Originally posted by turbosciencewig
Also, Flares have intense heat! So are you telling me that they hoaxer balanced these flares perfectly so the that flame ALWAYS stayed away from the fishing line? Eventually the flare would tip either down or up depending on how it was ballanced. And all that heat going up would melt the line. And remember as the element of the flare burns, the weight of the flare changes!

There are just too many things that don't add up at all.

[edit on 24-4-2008 by 27jd]

I am planning to recreat this stunt, except I will not be using road flares, I found a 8-pack of cheap-o flashlights that weigh ~9oz, and I found some large balloons. I just need to see how much helium costs, I might get the balloons filled up at party city or near by.

I will be launching them from an undisclosed location in the north valley, on monday or tuesday night around 8pm.

I want to make the news, and see how many people I can trick.

reply to post by kleverone


Fishy indeed, sounds like someone was trying to divert attention from whats really going on

and cnn are suckers for that stuff

and that was florida AND texas

texas has just been constant though, it was going on before and durring this event

You don't need helium balloons. Hot air does the trick perfectly:


Ufo balloons

Sadly this is an internet forum. Alloy alien metals and lockshut data will not be found here. We bandy about ideas.reply to post by snookhums

I saw a video clip of a reporter going to the alleged residence of said balloon launch and asked if they were the ones responsible and their reply was "No that was another house, farther down from here." Maybe they didn't want to admit to a flare launch due to a potential fire hazard and criminal charges. Just my two cents. This is my first post on this awesome website!

What is it here with the mentality that 4 lights in the sky HAVE to be aliens?

All4fun in Phoenix sells helium and a large collection of balloons
Road flares are widely available - approx $3 each
Fishing line is cheap

The guy may well be in trouble under FAA regulations concerning "Kites/Balloons" 101.15 which is a damn good reason to not show his face (although suprisingly he does well on 101.17)
But I hardly think the FAA are going to kick his door down because of 4 balloons, although Government bodies do like to make examples and may just be letting him sweat a bit before fining him (I would)

Just because you cant figure out how he tethered the flare to the balloon, doesnt mean cant have, it just mean you cant figure it out. (try putting the holding line around the flare then to the balloon. A large enough gap between the flare and balloon will prevent complications)

Why would he do it? Maybe he gets fed up of people going on about 11 years ago and was trying to prove a point. Oh wait, that is mentioned in the interview.

Before any one cries out the immortal phrase, 'prove it', road flares are not available in the UK, so even if I wanted to, I cant.
Then again, you can prove it can't be done by recreating the same experiment








[edit on 25-4-2008 by Mark Roazhar]

Lose the flares, it's too far fetched!

The cheapest UFO in the universe; tutorial

reply to post by D.Wolf


I am going to try that!

See? ATS! Both informative and inspirational

I'm off to Sainsbury's tonight and nick their veggie bags and B&Q for some balsa sticks (although I bet drinking straws would work as well)

Get the kids joining in - Good to be a Dad! I have cheap labour available

[edit on 25-4-2008 by Mark Roazhar]

How about we take a moment to discuss intent with regard to the original Phoenix lights.

On the one hand we have citizens or military going through coordinated efforts to perpetrate an elaborate hoax. But what exactly is the intent of the hoax? 15 minutes of fame, as some would allude? The coverup of military exercises not yet ready for public awareness?

On the other hand we have an UFO popping into Phoenix, hanging around for a while for a photo opportunity then slowly one light at a time disappearing back from where it came. Intent?

Enlighten me. I can certainly put my arms around a hoax or coverup. But having an giant alien spaceship just show up, hang around and then leave without so much as a howdy do..........well that's just rude!

So for all of you who believe this to be real....what could possibly have been the intent? And why Phoenix for heavens sake?

I think you're missing the point that this may not be "alien" but the theory they supposedly provided is trash and if you believe it to be true without them even showing that it's possible then its kinda contradictory. I've said it before, 2 guys jump on tv to claim fame but it doesn't prove a thing. Many posters have proven loop holes in this theory. I believe that flares can be tied to balloons but at some point those flares are going to be burning through the string. Plus, letting balloons up into that high of altitude and them sustaining a certain formation and not just blowing away is hard to believe. I play golf and even with a 10MPH breeze we have to re-adjust our shots because the wind 30 FT higher is a lot more intense. So, at the level these alleged flare balloons were hanging from is quite gusty. And I live in New Mexico and it's dry just like AZ, so if someone even goes to the forest lighting camp fires or fireworks then they are charged and scolded.
Too many loopholes in this story. I'm not saying that they are of alien origin or are being used to put out the Phoenix light flame, but what I am saying is that this Flare theory shouldn't be taken as truth without any kind of follow up or explaination from the source/recovering the evidence used in this theory. Because you all seem to want a lot more then a story from 2 guys to prove that there are unexplanable things, but just to accept 2 guys going on TV as it being truth is unfortunate.

[edit on 25-4-2008 by snookhums]

[edit on 25-4-2008 by snookhums]

[edit on 25-4-2008 by snookhums]

[edit on 25-4-2008 by snookhums]

Ask the two individuals claiming to have done this to do it again with everyone watching.

Their claim can be DIRECTLY tested.

(My apologies if they have already done so at the proper scale and time.)

reply to post by Mark Roazhar


I think his compliance with 101.17 is coincidental not planned lol
At any rate, they may well want to press charges pour les encouragement des autres.
Atleast he didn't coat his balloons in aluminum foil....

reply to post by snookhums


You are absolutely right. The experiment should be repeatable, and not prooving it is suspicious. People buying the story without proof is a bit wierd too.

What really gets me though is the SKEPTICS who buy it without proof.

Now don't get me wrong here, I think it's possible for Balloons with Flares to cause a similar effect. HOWEVER, wind is always a factor, the balloons would not stay in formation.

Also, the most important factor in this case IMHO is the fire hazard.

Perhaps many of you don't remember what happened during the dry season last year in Southern California? I'll remind you, the entire lower portion of the state was on fire. From Irvine down to the border of Mexico, from Interstate 5 all the way to the coast. I lived and worked in the affected areas, and my parents live in another of the affected areas.

Some of these fires were started by downed power lines (no combustion, just spark).

Additionally, during WW2 the Japanese actually attacked California in this manner, sending balloons with firebombs attached over the ocean and into California.

The seriousness of the fire hazard cannot be discounted. People lives are at stake, a LOT of people's lives. If this hoax were real these people would be considered terrorists in the Southwest of America.

I know for a fact that specifically in Arizona, slightly east of Yuma, there is an area of land that Arizona has 'given' to the federal govt, in order to 'do whatever needs to be done' to combat a number of issues (the drug war, illegal immigration, etc.)

I'm having trouble understanding why these two are not in jail right now, and how the news media would cover the 'hoax' angle over the 'fire hazzard' angle of the story.

The more I look at this case, the more it stinks.

-WFA

Originally posted by Mark Roazhar
What is it here with the mentality that 4 lights in the sky HAVE to be aliens?

Who said it HAS to be aliens???

The guy may well be in trouble under FAA regulations

Certainly doesn't seem that way. It said very clearly that they did not plan to investigate. They would jump on this fast, especially since the tower at Sky Harbor, as well as a police helicopter was supposedly involved.

But I hardly think the FAA are going to kick his door down because of 4 balloons, although Government bodies do like to make examples and may just be letting him sweat a bit before fining him (I would)

See, that's what makes it look like you have some kind of agenda. Are you intentionally overlooking that there was burning magnesium sent up on those balloons? Do you have any idea what could have happened if road flares were sucked into the intake of an airliner?? I don't, but I'm sure it's not something that the authorities would just laugh off. It was not the "4 balloons" that is the issue here, it's the incendiary devices he attached to them that are dangerous.

Just because you cant figure out how he tethered the flare to the balloon, doesnt mean cant have, it just mean you cant figure it out. (try putting the holding line around the flare then to the balloon. A large enough gap between the flare and balloon will prevent complications)

So, how would the flares not burn through the holding lines, and fall to the ground?

reply to post by kleverone

That guy does seem to be a joker. I wouldn't trust him after all of the true stories about the lights about Phoenix, about which I've read & heard.
The Phoenix Lights Documentary

About Video 1:

"THE PHOENIX LIGHTS - WE ARE NOT ALONE"
Producers Lynne D. Kitei, M.D. and Steve Lantz present their Internationally award-winning film, an in-depth examination of the mile-wide, V-shaped light formations and craft witnessed by thousands of people in Phoenix and throughout Arizona on March 13th 1997. UFO buffs call it "the most documented unexplained mass sighting ever recorded."

WINNER Best Documentary (2005 International Sci-Fi & Horror Film Festival).
WINNER Best Director (2005 NY International Independent Film & Video Festival).
Also received three nominations for Best Documentary Feature.

For complete behind-the-scenes info on the making of the documentary, visit; www.stevelantzproductions.com (Link 1)

For more information on the Phoenix Lights event, visit; www.thephoenixlights.net.... Be sure and read "TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT" on the home page.

"THE PHOENIX LIGHTS - DEBUNKING THE DEBUNKERS" - Learn more about the real facts and common myths associated with the Phoenix Lights at this link; www.stevelantzproductions.com THIS IS A MUST-READ ARTICLE!!!

DVD available at Amazon.com in the UFO section; amazon.com-Phoenix-Light s

Phoenix lights UFO report on US news

About Video 2:

Th/i/s footage explains itself.

[edit on 25-4-2008 by ChadAndrewATS]