Phoenix UFO mystery Solved

aight, i can accept the flare explanation if I heard how big these ballons are and then see if the weight of the flares could be supported by said balloons.

Do road flares have smoke and if so did anyone see any in the air.

flares.. sheesh..

b

The pseudoskeptic is always talking about the "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" when it comes to Ufology but the "SCIENTIFIC METHOD" is thrown out of the window when it comes to pictures and video.

All someone has to do is yell fake, weather balloon, flare or something else and without any evidence the skeptic believes it. This shows a desire to satisfy a pre-existing belief not to seek the truth.

I'd just like to point out (this is possibly completely unrelated) that in the recent case in Indiana (see Frank Warren's thread) regarding the mystery sonic boom, the military returned to the scene the night after the incident and actually dropped flares from F-16s in an attempt to convince the public that it was perfectly normal, and the explanation for the events of the previous evening.

Now I'm not saying for sure that's what's happening here, but it could well be that they figured, 'it worked in Indiana, the press stopped asking questions there' and they tried to apply the same argument to one of the more unexplainable cases of all time, the Original Phoenix Lights case.

It sounds a lot to me like a smear tactic, whether it was conducted by a hoaxer or a gov't debunker isn't apparent.

But without further information to go on, I think someone was trying to call the original case into question by recreating the event in a clearly debunkable way, hoping that the new cases debunking would transfer (in the minds of those who care about such things) to the old case as well.

Just a thought, might not be correct on this, but I thought I'd weigh in.
Interesting thread Kleverone!

-WFA

I think this was a fantastic experience for everyone. Sure, there are some people out there that want this guys head on a platter served up with 2 road flares in his eye sockets. However, this gives us an excellent example of an admittedly fake UFO/UFOs that have received international attention, and briefly convincing the general public of their authenticity. I did see one or two posts by an individual where he/she pretty much called it for exactly what they were.

This event pretty much solidifies my belief that the original Phoenix Lights were the real deal, which makes me pretty happy. It just goes to show how difficult it would have been to fake the original lights.

I read somewhere on ATS an individual telling everyone to look into the sky on the 22nd and that with a collective willingness of many, many people we could get a flyover etc. I know that person was a day off but maybe that was the practice flight, I dunno

I love this site, there so many friendly people.
Cheers,
Boruma

In order to say case closed 3 things need to be satisfied.

1. The guy would need to explain how he did it.

2. The effect would need to be reproduced.

3. A professional would need to look at the video and list all the characteristic consistent with a flare or ballon and list all the characteristics inconsistent with a flare or a balloon.

You can't just solve it on a message board or by a news person visiting a house and a guy saying it's a hoax and he did it. If it was a hoax then these things will bear it out until then it's a U.F.O.

Who are we to say that it was even a UFO/Alien. Could it not be spirit or energy orbs? Just a thought.

Originally posted by Bspiracy
aight, i can accept the flare explanation if I heard how big these ballons are and then see if the weight of the flares could be supported by said balloons.

Do road flares have smoke and if so did anyone see any in the air.

flares.. sheesh..

b

Someone was good enough to do this on the other thread
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I don't buy it until i see the guy on TV and his neighbor that watched him set them off. I don't believe that balloons would stay stable in the air and not blow away.

It may be a simple thing but balloons don't stay still in the air and if they were somehow tethered to the ground then again i want to see the guy that did it on the news getting interviewed.

We live in a world of 24hr propagan... i mean news surely there is a reporter somewhere who would love to interview this guy i mean the supposed hoax was covered by every news organization so a follow up would make sense.

I don't know what was in the sky but i think that the balloon or flare stuff didn't pass as the truth in the 60's and sure as hell shouldn't pass now but then again with the sodium fluoride in the water and aspartame being ingested by the gallons we probably don't have the IQ's know any better.

Originally posted by stepfoy
i believe the system (government) paid somebody off or maybe they lucked out and found someone that wanted their 15 minutes of fame

This is not UFO research. It is wanting it to be true so badly that people are willing to ignore facts that don't support the version of an incident they WANT to be true. That is something quite different and very damaging to the credibility of those honestly looking for the truth.

This has to be an evil Bush-Cheney plot to try and take over the world!!!

Or is it pinky & the brain....

Very funny stuff.

I cant recall the name of the book, but it was written by a physician who had witnessed the Phoenix lights.

In the book (and I believe on a televison special as well) flare light was examined by a computer program. The light for flares is easy to identify under some kinda spectral analysis. The conclusion was the Phoenix lights were NOT flares. It wasnt even close.

Why do they continue to put the flare story in our faces when its been disproven ? Allow me to answer my own question, because people dont read. Heck even the so-called UFO experts dont read.

On Larry King Live show the UFO experts were once again stumped to find an answer to the Phoenix lights when flares were brought up.

Flares dont explain why people saw a SOLID object between the lights. Flares dont explain why stars were blocked out under the object.

Lets not forget that the former Govenor of Arizona has come forward to admit what he saw was a solid object and not flares. Some quotes from the Govenor...

"I'm a pilot and I know just about every machine that flies. It was bigger than anything that I've ever seen. It remains a great mystery. Other people saw it, responsible people. I don't know why people would ridicule it."

"It was enormous and inexplicable. Who knows where it came from? A lot of people saw it, and I saw it too. It was dramatic. And it couldn't have been flares because it was too symmetrical. It had a geometric outline, a constant shape."

"As a pilot and a former Air Force Officer, I can definitively say that this craft did not resemble any man made object I'd ever seen. And it was certainly not high-altitude flares because flares don't fly in formation."

The goverment certainly wasnt interested in finding out the truth back...

"Frances Barwood, the 1997 Phoenix city councilwoman who launched an investigation into the event, said that of the over 700 witnesses she interviewed, "The government never interviewed even one."


Nice try disinfo agents, next story please...



[edit on 24-4-2008 by admriker444]

[edit on 24-4-2008 by admriker444]

reply to post by kleverone



LOL


OH MY GOD, DURR I TIED A FLARE TO A BALOOON PEOPLE.


No.


I'm sorry, NO.

That is a the most retarded explanation ive heard.

Where are smoke trails, The consistantcy of a flare randomnizes.


I'm sorry, It's really going to take a UFO to land in front of the white house to shut the populace up and accept we aren't alone and our religions are ass backwards.

reply to post by admriker444


oh and to reply the former Govenor's statement in which he was puzzled why witnesses would be ridiculed. The answer is simple...

If we accept that the object was in fact a flying machine (whether man-made or alien), we then must question how such a massive object could fly without making any sound. Clearly it isnt using standard combustion engines.

The answer leads us down a slippery slope. Free energy, anti-gravity, and other technologies that would end wars, poverty, starvation, etc. How will the goverment explain untold suffering to the public when it had the technology to prevent it ?

Heck look at the latest crisis, food shortages. Directly linked to the oil issue, our goverments could stop untold suffering with the release of these suppressed technologies.

Finding out the lights werent flares means much more than discovering we arent alone in the universe. Its much more diabolical than that

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole UFO-Hoaxer mentallity. I find it impossible without resorting to vulgar words and generally being highly offensive because there's really nothing else to be said

But then I'm kind of a boring kind of guy who finds precious little to be genuinely amusing. In fact, my wife jokes with me that my excitement level could never go beyond a 4 on a 10 scale

"Brevity is the soul of wit." -- William Shakespeare.

And lets face it... this stuff is ooooooooooollllllldddddddddd!!!!

AGAIN! I'm not going to sit here and say this was an out of this world UFO but we're all failing to miss the point we hold true to this site and that's EVIDENCE. Where's the evidence? No one has recovered anything, and no one has proven this method. All we see is 2 random guys go on TV claiming 15 minutes of fame. Anyone could've said what they said, there is still no proof to back up what they claim.

And also, if you notice at the end of the interview the guys throws in that flares tied to balloons is also the explaination for the 90's lights in Phoenix. hmmmm...

reply to post by snookhums


You know what, I'd believe that a flying hat was a UFO before I'd believe it wasn't now just because of your comment.

How about I light a fart on fire and digitally edit it to look like a UFO flying in my back yard.

Everyone wants evidence, well, if you'd first hand seen that UFO you'd have enough evidence wouldn't you? How about the original Phoenix Lights, not seeing it isn't enough proof? What will it take for you to get enough evidence, the damn UFO to land in front of you and for you to touch it and run around it with a tiki light?

Damn.

People are so ignorant.

UFOs are real and alot of them are real and in fact more so of them are real now aday then fake. Damn you people just want to bite on any invisible hook you can.

[edit on 24-4-2008 by TheRealYoda7]

lol
you totally missed the point I was trying to make. I'm saying if this was flares tied to balloons and can be taken as a valid explanation then prove it besides just having 2 guys on video saying they did it. I mean, people with videos of so-called UFO's have to come up with evidence to make the UFO real then why can't we have the same with this Flare theory? Why doesn't anyone provide evidence beyond 2 chumps on video? I'm not saying provide videos of other people doing it, have that guy do it, and where are these fallen balloons? It would've taken quite a bit of balloons to make this happen. So give us evidence of this Flare theory so that it can be a valid one.

o wow, i really thought it waz a ufo and now it turns out it waz jus humans l o well

reply to post by admriker444


Since Ritzmann is no longer around to provide this response I guess I'll have to do it for him. You can't perform a spectral analysis on a video or photograph it just doesn't work that way and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise doesn't know what they're talking about. While I will agree there was something more to the original Phoenix Lights, most of the footage and photos of that event was of the military's flare drop. Although I remember someone mentioning that there was some footage of the actual craft that was shown on a show shown in Arizona about the incident.

Personally I find it hilarious and a real sign of the times that people look for UFOs on the internet.

It's like Sherlock Holmes reading the newspaper for clues. Pointless. Go outside and look for yourself.

Here's an easy UFO that you can try to spot for starters. Look high up into the fairly clear sky and pay attention for a faint black streak(s) that is moving across the sky but doesn't have a solid form. It will be very faint against the blue sky, almost translucent. The streaks will have a good length to them and have ends that aren't 'definite'. It is a single object travelling very fast, but not in the conventional manner. The streak is an artifact of the craft's method of travel, not the craft itself.

Once I had my first clear sighting of a craft I started paying attention for similar 'artifacts' left behind in the sky. This is similar to how you can see a contrail forming in the sky and look to the end of it to see the plane forming it. Just look for black streaks high up in the sky, those are the 'contrails' for the 'ufo'. Just remember that when seeing these streaks that the 'ufo' is not travelling through space, it is distorting it. The streak will have a forward motion of travel while appearing to be jumping backwards and forwards.

[edit on 4/24/2008 by Spoodily]