Expert: "We're brainwashing our children" about global warming

reply to post by KMFNWO

Is there anything else people understand these days besides money?

I believe we're an apathetic bunch who couldn't be mobilized for anything unless it has a direct measurable negative impact on our personal lives. Here in Europe we pay $9 per gallon of gasoline for example, care to guess how many Hummers we have driving around here? The ludicrous amount of taxing is also causing young starters to seriously reconsider buying a house 30 miles or more from where they work.

Even our government (the Dutch one) is starting to feel the strain of their own taxes. As of yesterday they are obliged to take the train for official trips rather than planes or their heavy gas guzzling cars with drivers.

Looking at the rising temperatures on nearly all planets with an atmosphere in our solar system I am constantly amazed by the amount of 'scientists' still trying to blame man and I hate all the taxes they're inspiring (new taxes on airplane travel are causing low-cost carriers to stop flying to our country for instance). Still, I can't help but applaud the many positive effects these taxes are having (our government is now subsidizing buying solar pannels, is able to increase their funding for clean fuel-research and they're flying planes with infrared camera's over our homes to warn people who are losing too much warmth that they might want to update their isolation, just to name three more).

Back on-topic: I don't really see a problem here. I do believe the ease with which certain school boards are complying with MSM- and political-views is very telling regarding the overall quality of our education. But then again, a principle of a school in Columbia has recently said she'd rather step down than allow gay children access to her school while certain other school boards are seriously suggesting teaching creationism as proper science. 1 in 5 Americans can't locate the US on a world map and over half of Dutch students following a teachers education would fail at an arithmetic-test designed for the elementary schools they're about to teach at. Those are much more pressing issues in my opinion.

Here is another problem with brainwashing our kids regarding global warming. My 7 year old daughter came home from school one day afraid that the earth would be destroyed by global warming. Her little mind thought that we would all die. My wife and I questioned her on this and it was clear that the our impressionable children can scare easily. My kids go to private school and the message was probably muted in comparison to the public schools.

By the way we teach our kids to respect the planet, partially through religious education and partially by showing our actions about recycling, turning off the water, etc. And they get that we must respect all resources, including the money that mom and dad earn at work. Altough my daughter still likes to spend our money.

Originally posted by DYepes
whether or not global warming is real or not is irrelevant. Living a sustainable lifestyle is not only good for the planet, and probably your health, it probably saves money in most cases, and shows a little respect and gratitude to the land that has been able enough to sustain our life.

Show a little respect and live a sustainable lifestyle. your children will thank you when they dont have to save up to take a clean shower and play in garbage in the future.

Excellent, brilliant post

While we may be assailed by information for both sides, each pushing their own agenda, we are blessed with the intellect and the common sense to seperate the wheat from the chaff. Look, and it is easy to see that we need to change the way we live, gloabl warming may be used as a catalyst to impose that change. But if we change of our own accord, using the free will that we all possess, no imposition is necessary. Unfortunately, most will wait until that change is enforced rather than reading ALL the available information, and heaven forbid, forming their own opinion

Originally posted by RRconservative
Global Warming is only an excuse to raise taxes. Nothing more nothing less.

No. Global Warming is being used as an excuse to raise taxes.

There's a very big difference

Global Warming is also being used by some peoples as a means of making lots of money.

None of which changes the science.

You can argue about how much AGW is happening, how much is happening due to carbon emissions (IMO not much as yet) and what the future may bring. But you can only argue that AGW is not happening if you can conclusively disprove the science. Which no-one has done.

A doubling of atmospheric CO2 will cause average global temps to rise by about 1c (according to the science).

Human activity is increasing amounts of atmospheric CO2 over and above what would naturally occur were humans not here.

Natural variablity daoes cause temps to rise and fall irrespective of AGW

The effects of such natural variability, and the effects of various feedback mechanisms, are still disputed.

Human activity is affecting the climate in many other ways - including changes in cloud cover/contrails, deforestation, land use changes affecting albedo and pollution (Asia brown cloud, soot etc)

Most arguments revolve around whether warming is cause by carbon emissions and conveniently ignores everything else .....


btw William Gray is no more of a climate expert than I am.

So the polar icecaps are melting eh!

Whilst there is some minor reduction occuring in the Arctic, it is nowhere near ther increases occuring in the Antarctic. Yet we are fed this rubbish all the time.
Why do people just blindly believe what is published without looking deeper?
Bad news sells ... good news doesn't ... remember that.

Do your own research.
Have a look at these:
Arctic
Antarctic

The latter has more detail. Take particular notice of the Sea Ice Extent & Concentration figures on each chart for the years. Pick your own years to compare to current. Well! What do you know .. it's growing fast. Did you read that anywhere?

Down here in Oz, we have been hearing (as you may have) about the huge chunk of ice shelf falling off Antactica due to global warming. Turns out it's not that big and it's falling off something that wasn't there no so long ago. It probably better I post this link rather than detail it myself and make a huge post.
External Link

(I particularly like the explanation ... given in humour ... at the base of this page)

People, do your own research, it's all out there. Ignore the proaganda designed to cause fear, sell publications and generate wealth and power for others.



[edit on 9-4-2008 by polytickle]

I don't know about anyone elses kids but mine aren't being "brain washed." Does anyone actually talk to their kids or do they just let the schools raise them? If you are too lazy to talk to them then you are worse than the brain washers....

That Sacramento bill is going to get someone hurt... Those people in California I think are just about fed up with all the taxes and now they want to put another one on them? Seems to me someone out there needs a "Tune up"....

One thing I seriously don't like about the MMGW theory is the fact that it takes the world's eye of major problems such as deforestation, I can't believe I heard someone today more worried about cows farting then chopping down the rainforests to create bio fuels. What about chemical dumping? You just don't hear about these issues anymore it's all about Carbon Footprints, when did Carbon Dioxide become a pollutant?
It's a fantastic idea to become more energy efficient and improve the usage of renewable energy but over taxing the people as an excuse is just a big no.

How do taxes reduce CO2 emissions? To fix a problem all you would have to do is have a limit on how much emissions every new car produces then after 10-30 years the number of "polluting cars" would drop significantly, what about Carbon Monoxide that’s a real pollutant again you just don't hear about them anymore. Instead they go after the people instead of the companies that make these products; I personally feel the environmental movement is more to do with depopulation and eugenics than anything else.

Originally posted by Perplexed
I don't know about anyone elses kids but mine aren't being "brain washed." Does anyone actually talk to their kids or do they just let the schools raise them? If you are too lazy to talk to them then you are worse than the brain washers....

I wish I could give you multiple stars but I can't... I remember being sent by my mother to tell the teacher that he was wrong after I had told her what I had learnt at school that day. I apply the same principles to raising my own son and ensure that the state is not the only provider of his education. I don't need to be told how to think, neither does my five year old, that is why I learnt to read and why he is learning to read. We can find out for ourselves and form our own opinions. The education system provides one perspective, we as parents simply need to instill in our children that authority is not always right and that seeking out the information for ourselves is not only a pleasure but a skill that will aid in our survival.

When you want to control a nation you give it a contrived problem and a solution. When you want to control the world give it a world problem contrived and a solution .............. Get it?

Oil, War, hunger, population control, Climate warming, terrorist threats, Free Trade, G8, water control, Food shortages, Cold war, NWO!

Originally posted by polytickle
So the polar icecaps are melting eh!

Do your own research.
Have a look at these:
Arctic
Antarctic

The latter has more detail. Take particular notice of the Sea Ice Extent & Concentration figures on each chart for the years. Pick your own years to compare to current. Well! What do you know .. it's growing fast. Did you read that anywhere?

I don't know if you are refering to my post, but I'll answer it anyway:
I did not read anything anywhere and just blindly believe it. I have my own experiences and make my own opinions! Now, if you read this and blindly believe it, you make the same mistake as anyone!

Down here in Oz, we have been hearing (as you may have) about the huge chunk of ice shelf falling off Antactica due to global warming. Turns out it's not that big and it's falling off something that wasn't there no so long ago. It probably better I post this link rather than detail it myself and make a huge post.
External Link

Well, up here in the North we see things for ourselves and judge the conditions. When you actually see it, it makes a stronger impact! Maybe you've heard that also??

(I particularly like the explanation ... given in humour ... at the base of this page)

Yeah! Mister Anonymous is very funny! He actually claims that ice glaciers melt because people come and pee on them, amongst other things! Very believable!

Well, if you haven't noticed, we all base our opinion on something. Mostly on things we read or hear about. Since scientists have different opinions it depends of which report we read to get our information. Me and you, like all other posters, believe in what we have read or heard or both, and can probably argue for years to come without coming to an agreement!
But I don't think that is as important as trying our best to take more care of the planet we live on! No matter if global warming is a fact, and whether it's man made or not!!! I hope we all can agree on that!

And to comment on what this thread was originally about:
I don't believe that they brainwash us to believe in global warming! What the hell for? American posters claim it's because they can use it to raise taxes, but there are actually more people in the world than you americans. Believe it or not! If it were to raise taxes, the whole world would experience that, not just the US!
Now, if you'd say they exaggerate the GW thing a bit, I would totally agree! But that's the media for ya!
Still, I do not see any negativity about using GW as an excuse for everybody to be better environmentalists! It's about time!

Originally posted by mlmijyd
When you want to control a nation you give it a contrived problem and a solution. When you want to control the world give it a world problem contrived and a solution .............. Get it?

Oil, War, hunger, population control, Climate warming, terrorist threats, Free Trade, G8, water control, Food shortages, Cold war, NWO!

Now THERE'S a student of history - star for you!

It's amazing that, in the name of the current popular catastrophic 'flavor of the day' they will fail to recognize what's being done to them (or even their children) - just as long as they can feel good that they are 'doing something.' No matter how many times you tell them - this has nothing to do with 'going green' and being 'eco-friendly' and everything to do with mind-think and social control, they react like your threatening their religious freedom.

For goodness sake, GW is but ONE of thousands of problems the presence of people on this planet causes, and its but one of a hundred that we can affect trough change of behavior. Yet the media machine has created this McCarthyistic attitude - "you're either in agreement or your a Neanderthal causing us to go careening towards extinction!'

Dude, - Go green, don't pollute, recycle, - but stop this nonsense about how we are 'on the brink' and "we're all gonna die.' Every reputable scientist will admit that there is contradictory evidence that doesn't fit this Gore-driven climate model. Science is very unforgiving - disregarding evidence that does not 'fit' your theory (regardless of how popular it is) is NOT an option. One reputable scientist with verifiable evidence contradicting the model is all it takes to DEMAND a review of the theory.

However, the current Gorewinian approach is to 'marketeer' inconvenient truths via public relations campaigns and political sniping to further bolster their grand 'global' system of taxation which will 'save us all'. Open your eyes people, for the billionth time, it's not about denying our impact on the environment - it's about denying the politically-contrived magical solution that the international industrialists want you to adopt. There has to be a better way to spread the word than to stifle debate by 'minimizing' scientists who's evidence doesn't fit your model. "Yes, Virginia, there is propaganda"

Now comes the inevitable spewage of 'examples' of GW and disparaging comments on everyones ecologically counterproductive habit. I ask you - will a 'global carbon tax' make that go away?

reply to post by estar


A very important point!

People argue as if it's all about carbon emissions - when in fact there is currently stronger evidence that other human activities are having a more direct effect on climate - deforestation being a major one (directly causing floods and droughts in tropical regions, indirectly it may also impact on global weather patterns). Others include other aspect of landuse change (including, ironically, afforestation), aircraft contrails and other pollutants including soot and the infamous 'Asian Brown Cloud'.

It's also worth bearing in mind that all these global warming malarkey has been going on for decades - long before any politician even dreamed of jumping on the bandwagon. Even back in the 70s - when as some are always keen to point out a few climate scientists thought we might be heading for a new ice age, the majority of those involved in such research were more concerned about global warming .....

I daresay in time some new bogey will come along and GW will be forgotten ...... but it'll still be happening. Indeed I doubt there's anything we can do to stop it except to release the vials of super-mega-'flu

Global Warming (this time around) is profoundly influenced by the hand of man. 30 years of research supports this. The idea that man has not played a part in global warming is a fundamental idea propagated by the right wingers to futher advance their economic agendas. To place economic well being above the health of our planet is unforgivable as far as I am concerned.

You call this brainwashing, but I like the term education myself. Suppose for argument sake that the vast majority of the environmental scientific community are wrong and man plays no part in GW. Then all that work we have done to counter-act GW was for nothing, all we got out of it was cleaner air, cleaner water, improved respitory health, and less waste, and who needs any of that.

GW is real, it's here, and it's our public enemy numero uno.

Arent these good things to be brain washing
?

I don't think brain washing is ever a good thing.

More to the topic at hand....

Of course teaching kids conservation of resources and limiting the amount of pollution they generate is a very good thing. But guilting them into believing they are contributing to the catastrophic warming of the Earth's climate with every breath they exhale, every car ride they take, and every light they switch on is reprehensible.

CO2 is NOT a pollutant, any more than oxygen is.

Teach the kids to use less throw away materials, teach them the wisdom of producing ony two children when they grow up and marry. Inspire them to become scientists to develop new ways to produce energy. Teach them to live in peace with people who look different and have different value systems. The GW "movemement" is teaching kids to disrespect, and even hate people who don't believe their propaganda. The number of people suffering around the world RIGHT NOW, as a result of warfare generated by racial and cultural hatred far outstrips any suffering that MAY be sustained by future generations as a result of seal levels being a few feet higher or or the ice caps getting smaller or alpine glaciers disappearing.

Do all these things mentioned above, and more, but do not scare kids to the point where they will grow up to happily pay taxes on carbon dioxide emissions in the belief they are saving the world from catastrophic doom.

Hogwash.

Originally posted by The Oak
Global Warming (this time around) is profoundly influenced by the hand of man. 30 years of research supports this. The idea that man has not played a part in global warming is a fundamental idea propagated by the right wingers to futher advance their economic agendas. To place economic well being above the health of our planet is unforgivable as far as I am concerned.

You call this brainwashing, but I like the term education myself. Suppose for argument sake that the vast majority of the environmental scientific community are wrong and man plays no part in GW. Then all that work we have done to counter-act GW was for nothing, all we got out of it was cleaner air, cleaner water, improved respiratory health, and less waste, and who needs any of that.

GW is real, it's here, and it's our public enemy numero uno.

I offer no contradiction except - perhaps the most important that I know of - who has ever stated that man has no part in the GW equations? I agree that an economic agenda is on the table along with the GW debate, but how does this fit in with the objection that GW is not "public enemy numero uno."

My argument that in terms of priority, what happened that made carbon-tax the solution? How did it come to pass that we feel we can do anything other than cease to contribute to the problem? Just because we stop all our poor choices doesn't mean the problem will be solved. And that's the very message that is being propagated, that WE are the cause. I contend that we are only PART of the equation and it is unclear how 'big' a part of the equation we represent. Politicizing the problem is just so much 'dressing' for the window.

Even if man vanished into an alternate dimension today - the GW cycle will continue to swing back and forth - and it is based on that truth that I contend the 'Gore' initiative is disingenuous, especially since it represents profit opportunities for those who are more the cause of deforestation, strip mining, petro addiction, and much else - more so than the average global citizen who is just trying to live a life they find desirable (self-destructive though some of it most certainly is). The call to change behavior needs to start with those whose contribution to the problem is orders of magnitude greater than the ones being asked to 'make sacrifices.'

I want them to stop selling 'guilt' to my children. That's my job.

Personally I don't think enough is being told to the public, including children about the threat of anthropogenic global warming. As a conspiracy theorist who sees on a daily basis strange jet contrail formations I believe our governments, or at least the USA, is engaged in some type of secret weather manipuation to delay the effects of global warming as long as they can before true action has to be taken.

Budski, for once, I'm in agreement with you!

They push algore's movie on kids in school, passing off his freakin' PowerPoint slide show as the truth, but they don't allow anyone that is against GW to show their side of the story. It's all algore, and everyone else is a liar.

I'm 100% behind conservation, pollution control, recycling, being as "Green" as you can, but I think GW is just something they are pushing onto the public. As someone posted a few messages back, when I was a kid in the 1970's, they said we were heading to another Ice Age! WTF? How did we go from dying from the cold, to a neutral state, to dying from the heat??

And algore can shove his "Carbon credit" BS he pushes. How many homes does this guy own? Vehicles? Private jets, or at least trips on them? And he buys carbon credits that allow him to do that? And if you can't afford them, guess you can't use your car/truck?

60 Minutes just had a story about algore's 300 million dollar ad campaign for Global Warming. He put in all his Nobel Prize money, plus all the money he made from his book/movie, and they matched it.

Now, I'm sure that he got a lot out of the Nobel Prize and the profits from his book/movie, and even matching it, I don't think that ads up to 300 Million dollars.

Of course, Leslie Stahl doesn't ask the hard question: Where did the rest of the money come from, Al??? China? India? You aren't above taking money from the Chinese; you already got caught doing that once.

Focussing back on the money aspect for a moment, an article from last year shows some of the truth about "green" taxes in the UK:

The Treasury receives around £29.3billion each year in green taxes such as air passenger duty, accountants UHY Hacker Young said.

The Government raises £25.1billion in fuel duties and takes in £2.1billion in air passenger duty each year.

But it gives just £254million back in lower vehicle excise duty for people who drive environmentally-friendly cars.

And the total it hands back each year to environmentally-friendly taxpayers is £549million.

source

And this is also worth a read.

This "brainwashing" is about conditioning our children to ACCEPT higher taxation to fight against alleged GW/AGW, when in reality, little of the money is being used for the reasons it's supposed to be, and as always, it's the ordinary folk who suffer, whilst the big corporations (the biggest polluters) pay comparatively little.

What a great way for representatives of the people to behave - ride the little folk into the ground and ensure that people with lots of money pay less so that the politicians can get nice cosy jobs "consulting" when they leave office.

At least when the monarchy and nobility were raking in all the cash, you KNEW you were getting ripped off - these days they always have an excuse to do it, that's supposed to be "for our own good"

BAH

reply to post by budski


And do you have evidence to support your easter bunny theory? Don't fall into the kookball trap that makes a scientific theory out to be a "hunch."

And you are presenting your opinion as a legitimate counterargument to fact. "This is what the evidence shows, verified by many, many people well-educated on the subject. However, I disagree, therefore htey are wrong"

reply to post by budski


Some good points. I think we all know the basic CO2 lectures and agree it's basic science. The question remains how much does human activity change the Earth's natural cycle. For instance, if we go through a natural cycle every 10k years and human activity speeds that cycle up by 40 years do we really care?

On the otherhand, our society does a masterful job of brainwashing young minds in far worst ways. Is it really that bad to promote an environmently friendly agenda? I say American Idol is far worst for our children than CO2 lectures.