Police arrest anti-war protester, 80, at mall.

Well.......I really hate too say this, but the reason this keeps coming up (rights being taken) is because we allow it. If you want to keep your rights you have to fight and sometimes die for them. You have to draw your line in the sand, and be ready to give up everything to save something. You may die, but the whole idea is to serve a purpose greater than ones self. If it gets too risky too take a right from you they will quit. Inflict enough pain and misery and you might loose the battle, but in the end you will win the war. The days of hippy non violent protest are over. That crap will get you nowhere in this world. I hate war, and I hate violence. I would never tell anybody to hurt another person unless they were in fear for their life or anothers life. But if you want to change the world you have to start fighting back. I have my line in the sand. Do you?

I must toss in here that dispite my believing the worst about Bush and all those with him, I have always have great experience witrh Sheriffs, who seem to still be involved with the local community, are normal guys and can be dealt with if you remain calm and considerate.

It is when they are in a "Force or Gang" that I worry about police.

Also, I have a deep dislike of all women cops and highway patrol officers but that is just because I'm a Sewxist and Speeder

There is something in between making an arrest,and correcting the problem without making an arrest.

THAT THING IS CALLED DISCRETION.

And even if the police do not believe it is within their options,it still is an option.How about this..if a police officer thinks that maybe what he is being told he has to do in a certain situation is wrong,maybe he should do what he knows is right,and be man enough to answer to the authorities himself for upholding what he..................

AHHHHHH,nevermind,this country is so far gone that there really is no point trying to explain it....most of you would not understand it even if you had better reading comprehension

Authority without accountability is Tyrrany.

Enforcement without Discretion is Tyrrany.

Not considering the rights of the few because of the will of the many is collectivism/communism.

I thought this was a democracy,but is supposed to be a republic....

Oh No,Democracy is just a pre-embroyonic form of communism.

I see way more than I want to,I am closing my eyes now.

Oh ,one more thing,if a police force is militarized ,as the one in the USA Corporation has become,WHO IS THE ENEMY?.

Oh,I see someone mentioned that dealing with sherriff's deparments is a far nicer experience than dealing with police departments,there is a reason for that,BY THE WAY,A good reason.
But I leave it to you to figure out why,because my telling you here saves you the trouble of finding out the truth yourselves.
Hint.....POLICE DEPARTMENTS,and the way they conduct BUSINESS ,are UNLAWFUL.

With a war going so bad, which are pulling all your dollars out of your cash holding, then its no surprise to see us police acting as Dubya´s longer arm.. Sad day in history when freedom and the possibility to wear what ever you want.

A mall is private property. You have no right to do whatever you want on private property. Agents of the owners (the security guards), asked him to stop handing out pamphlets and turn his t-shirt inside out. He didn't comply, so at that point he was trespassing. Sorry, no one's rights were trampled.

If he wants to wear his shirt while on his own property, or even public property, then that's his right. But the mall has the right to kick out anyone they don't want there, and have them arrested if they fail to leave.

reply to post by nataylor


Absolutely, 100%...correct.

The second that he refused to comply with the instructions of mall security, he was trespassing.

People tend to over-interpret the freedom of speech and expression granted by the first amendment. For the most part, it applies to PUBLIC property. Private property such as a mall or other business can set up pretty much whatever rules they see fit.

I wonder how some of the anti-war folks in this thread would react if, someday, some guy showed up on their doorstep and started handing out pro-Bush flyers on their front lawn without their permission? I guess they'd just have to tolerate it, because that's exactly what they're saying the mall should do.

reply to post by rcwj75


I believe you're right in this instance ... and many others.

But, there are many cases in which police, when dealing with less than favorable conditions, abuse the system only because they lack the mental stability to stay calm under pressure.

Such as when police are called to a domestic dispute that has already been resolved by those involved, only to be insulted by one of the suspects. Rather than back down and admit that there is no longer any problem, they grab the suspect, slam him to the ground, shove a knee into the suspects kidney, proceed to cuff and arrest the suspect ... for an insult.

Can you show me a law that states it's illegal to insult a police officer? There are none ... unless a local law for foul language can be applied.

I'm sure the charges were listed as disorderly conduct, disturbing the peace, or some other bogus at-will statue that the officer conjured up - yet in all actuality, there was no reason to make an arrest. Other than the officer couldn't handle an insult with integrity.

I'm not saying I side with the suspect. I think insulting ANYONE is a sign of a weak and insecure individual ... but the inability to deal with unfavorable circumstances makes some police officers just as weak and insecure as those they're trained to deal with in serving and protecting.

[edit on 31-3-2008 by tyranny22]

Hey, couldn't an owner of a mall (like the Simon Property Group or it's youth organization affiliates at www.syf.org) force the choice of nudity or better yet the tarty and alluring scanty dress like that hot-fox-mod from the UK as a prerequisite for shopping? Red-light specials are so "in" Europe.

I've only visited the United States a few times but was of the belief that since I can be hassled by every other variety of recruitment, armed black-shirt police, criminal and pseudo-religious freakazoid and hustler even before leaving the public access part of the airport property that some insignificant dessicated old-bag of Catholic-Deacon bones at a mall would be given at least the preferencial respect of being an elder? Duty-free America is weird. Not funny-weird, Nazi-Spetznatz-NKVD papers-please join our youth Foundation kids weird.

I believe that America needs to give every person of retirement age and above a Desertmaster and an unlimited supply of talon hollow-points just to insure they have a fighting chance at the mall.

Why does America have so many of those mall-things and what makes the chemically smell at the food-court make one so hungry by the high calorie trans-fat whiff and so runny at the bum but only after leaving the mall property? Is that why the transit systems smell of pee and poop or is that just the invisible garbage-old folks who live there who do that.

Sorry, the USA is just a little funny, OK, a lot funny. No, wait a mo', those are tears of sadness on my cheek for how the USA treats itself. Suicide is painless, so is a little common sense. Safer to shop in Basrah, oh wait that is where America shops - for victims to blame for it's own domestic-inbred troubles.

The "Simon says" group of companies is a landlord of great community service just like the Chinese government. Too, too unfortunate they couldn't "turn the other cheek" when they make a PR-fart smelt so widely.

Genesis - Land Of Confusion:


"Take your card to the Guest Services booth at any Simon mall or donate through the website. Whether it's pennies or dollars, your change can change lives!", support children - they spend longer than the elderly."

Trespass-naut US and forgive those who trespass against US but only in the pursuit of corporate-commerce and Justice, the American-way. Freedom is a "dom" buy a name, by any-other.

Speak'

[edit on 31-3-2008 by SpeakEasyOne]

reply to post by rcwj75


Hey rcwj75 you're a cop in the ATL? You don't happen to work in Zone 6 do ya?

Originally posted by SpeakEasyOne
Hey, couldn't an owner of a mall (like the Simon Property Group or it's youth organization affiliates at www.syf.org) force the choice of nudity or better yet the tarty and alluring scanty dress ...

Aside from the knock on Nefermore's personal choice of avatar - The above quote reminds me of all the Victoria Secret window mannequins and marketing graphics. Let's not forget Abercrombie and Fitch. Malls across America are full such images, all of which are very suggestive and border on soft porn but you don't often hear shoppers whining about that. God forbid though that someone should express their views on a war based on lies.

This is a big thread so I apologize if someone has made this comment and I missed it.


[edit on 31/3/08 by kosmicjack]

hopefully, they tazered the old guy a few times to teach him to start to show respect for others, but then again, after 80 years, I doubt he'd learn.

heres the facts for the bleeding hearts. Your rights end at the edge of private property. you either follow the rules of that area, or you leave, simply put. and if you don't, then you are subject to arrest and removal.

Thats the way the law works, you can't just pound on the bits you agree with and ignore the rest, its all or nothing really.

but, this is like speaking to a brick wall many times. most people here have absolutely no concept what freedom of speech is, or entails.

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


Well, I think you were a little bit over the top there, but I agree with you in substance. Property rights are just as much important as speech rights.

reply to post by RuneSpider

Well, i do have to say that i respect you for being able to continue a respectable debate. And i can see your point, i dont deny that he was processed by the LEO's in an appropriate matter according to law, but i guess my argument stems from a deeper issue with some of the laws and the ways there carried out.

reply to post by kosmicjack


Oh, they do complain about images like those as well. But there's a gigantic difference...the mall is also making money from the stores that do that. Until the complaints and resulting lost business start outweighing the benefits, the mall ownership will allow them to keep doing it.

There's practically no benefit to allowing some guy to pass out controversial material in your place of business for free.

reply to post by DimensionalDetective

This world is being trained to accept police officers as their masters. The globalists, who believe they can control the world (members of the United Nations & European Union) make so many laws against free people. Expect more people to protest against the wars, which those 2 wicked organizations have started.

Also: expect more unlawful arrests, and a revolution, which will be televised.

Originally posted by rcwj75

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
I am also disgusted with the motards we have running around this country who are so gutless that they would claim to be 'disrupted' by a t-shirt. Don't people realize how weak America has become because of their brittle yuppy attitudes?

YOU FINALLY BLAMED THE RIGHT PEOPLE!!! AMERICAN citizens...not cops. Of course we are the scapegoats, but if you TRULY want the truth it lies with our society.

The police HAD to make this man leave, the article states mall security placed him under citizens arrest...which means the cops have NO CHOICE but to follow the law. So stop blaming the cops....

I agree that citizens should not be narking each other out and then having the police show up to shirt the blame.

However- it is not beyond the police for this scenario either:

Mall administrator gets customers who are irritated by a citizen who is trying to create an atmosphere to rally attention so they express political/social views. The Mall manager's responsibility is to customer satisfaction then to store owners trying to sell wares to the public.

Mall manager calls the police (policy/procedure????). Police inform Mall manager to have a customer place the protester under citizens arrest for disturbing the peace because unless this occurs they cannot not intervene.

Mall manager requests and conveys information to angry shopper- who agrees to place protester under citizen's arrest as soon as police arrive in the parking lot.

GET A CLUE PEOPLE!!!

reply to post by CoffinFeeder


WOW,you are a GREAT example of the American project-totally brainwashed and a puppet on a string to dance to whatever tune the gov.wants you to.I bet if the "law"told you to kill everyone in your family you would uh?Tazer the old man?Im just gona shut up b4 I say something to bad.

reply to post by jkrog08


So property rights don't matter anymore, is that it? Well I definately got that message from you.

P.S.

I don't like your hateful remarks and I doubt most of the forum does, either.

Another WOW-this threa is treading on some issues that are sparking some angry emotions,myself included if you cant tell from my last post.I personaly do not like any form of law enforcement,prolly cause I have had bad run ins w/ them.I however agree that they do not make the law-and have as much say(prolly a lil more pull though)as we do for new laws and revisions.BUT,all(sheriff,pd,etc.)(with the small exceptions in small towns not yet "infected"by the "new america")well not all but atleast 85% IMO abuse the power given to them-either for payback at being bullied or disliked as a kid,or take advantage of their authority by forcing "their views"on the public.But still you cant blame them because it is our government which allows these people to hold these positions and do what they do-the "infection"so to say.Someone mentioned that no one complains of sexual ads in the mall-well thats because we as a society have been told that SEX IS GREAT-YOU ARE NOT NORMAL IF YOU ARE NOT SEX CRAZED,thats bs!!!I am afraid it will only get worse until WE THE PEOPLE take action-I am afraid we going down a path similar to what took down Rome-although are fall will be much much harder and further.Also I respect people from outside the US putting their opinions on here-but dont so eagerly judge us-you do not live here and do not know what its like "below the tip of the iceberg"you also have your own problems to deal with.Thats my 2.988 cents