Police arrest anti-war protester, 80, at mall.

Am I understanding that this gentleman was removed from where he was in a wheelchair by mall security?

Because last time I checked the difference between a LEO's arrest, and a citizen's arrest (detainment) was that during a detainment, the suspect cannot be transported without the suspect's consent.

Not to mention, a citizens arrest for anything other than a felony is a bad thing, imo. Disturbing the peace, a security guard should simply call the police after the suspect has been told to leave the premises. It is potential endangerment of other lives to so casually enforce a citizen's arrest upon an individual for disturbing the peace when that security guard more than likely does not have equivocal training to that of a LEO with qualified training.

Originally posted by rcwj75
You actually think ANY cop has the ability, more then you or another citizen, to go make sure laws are changed/not enforced?

No. But, you guys sure do take the "law into your own hands". And you can't admit it doesn't happen.

Police your own before you turn to us. Or else.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Im sorry if i get a little worked up, but you labeling me as an elitist makes you an elitist dosent it....

And that was a joke.....But you can call me an elitist all you want, i could care less. I will sleep fine tonight knowing that i am not, or never will be an elitist.

The media especially around here never tells the whole story very liberal and anyway they can try and bash the war and stuff like that they do thats why you didnt hear it.

reply to post by SilentBob86


I posted way back on page 1 or 2 and said basically the same thing.....our country has become pansyish to the minority. If you have 100 people walking by this old guy and not really caring that he is standing up for something, BUT then have 1 person walk by and not like what they see or hear...who wins????? In the USA its that 1 person.

We need to get back to telling that 1 person to suck it up, and deal with it... or stop shopping at the mall..lol

Originally posted by rcwj75
You actually think ANY cop has the ability, more then you or another citizen, to go make sure laws are changed/not enforced?

Absolutely, without a doubt, 100% positively so.

I grew up in a family of officers and know many many officers. Without a shadow of a doubt I can tell you that such things do indeed happen on a regular basis, and I myself have had the luck to encounter such officers.

reply to post by rcwj75


I really cant agree more.It makes me sick to think that some people cant just live and let live.

Sorry for the one liner, but i dont know how i can extend saying that i cant agree more.

reply to post by niteboy82


Me too. My brother is a LEO. I know what they do.

Originally posted by Griff
No. But, you guys sure do take the "law into your own hands". And you can't admit it doesn't happen.

Police your own before you turn to us. Or else.

How bout using correct wording and stop assuming. How about SOME GUYS take it into their own hands. Of course not...that makes sense and would be the right way...you want drama so you create it. I do agree...SOME guys take it into their own hands....but again what this has to do with this thread is beyond me.

As for your last sentence...no idea what thats supposed to mean...if its a threat...thats funny...go to bed..cool off and think alittle before you respond. I know your out to take over and change the world for the better good but under this thread your not making any progress!

reply to post by SilentBob86


Because his rights weren't removed. He was amade to leace a private place allowed for public use. He was forced to leave because someone complained because his shirtwas found offensive. He could have simply changed the shirt or just gone outside, out of the privately held aread, and continued what he was doing. The fact is he didn't. So he was asked to leave. He didn't. Security called the police, the police showed up and had to remove him. If he'd been outide of the mall, away from the private property, he'd have been alright. It''s why a lot of groups get away with their protests, they do it in in public areas. As long as they don't blast noise around, and don't make a large mess for others to clean up, and don't attack people in the crowd, no one realy cares.

Originally posted by niteboy82
Absolutely, without a doubt, 100% positively so.

I grew up in a family of officers and know many many officers. Without a shadow of a doubt I can tell you that such things do indeed happen on a regular basis, and I myself have had the luck to encounter such officers.

OK not sure where your from but other than the FOP I have NEVER seen or heard of cops having laws changed or modified other then traffic codes.

reply to post by rcwj75


Well, I'm from New Orleans, but did not grow up in Orleans Parish. Using New Orleans police as an example would have been a bad one, I'm sure you'd agree.

reply to post by SilentBob86


I'm calling you an elitist not ecause I really think you are, but because instead of taking other peoples views into consideration , you call them sheeple and put yourself above them. Yeah, live and let live is a great philosophy, unfortunately, it isn't done that way anymore. Mainly because lawsuits were done that exploit the gray areas in that philosophy. Sure, it's mainly the persons fault here for stating the incident, but not knowing who the person was, or why they are offended, we ca't make judgements on their character. Itf it's someone who recently lost a loved on in Iraq, then they have a reason, perhaps not entirly valid to someone else, to find the shirt offensive. Or mabe they thought the shirt was tasteless in respect of the views it was trying to put forth. It could have also been some punk kid who did it for a laugh. we don't know.

Originally posted by niteboy82
Am I understanding that this gentleman was removed from where he was in a wheelchair by mall security?

Because last time I checked the difference between a LEO's arrest, and a citizen's arrest (detainment) was that during a detainment, the suspect cannot be transported without the suspect's consent.

Not to mention, a citizens arrest for anything other than a felony is a bad thing, imo. Disturbing the peace, a security guard should simply call the police after the suspect has been told to leave the premises. It is potential endangerment of other lives to so casually enforce a citizen's arrest upon an individual for disturbing the peace when that security guard more than likely does not have equivocal training to that of a LEO with qualified training.

Not true...under MOST security SOP's they are authorized to move the subject out of the mall to either a safer/discreet place or outside. It's their job to keep things in the mall running smooth...so they are allowed to move people without that persons consent.

I agree, they should of called the cops first and let the officers handle it, but they didn't have too...they chose not too..their discretion.

Originally posted by niteboy82

Well, I'm from New Orleans, but did not grow up in Orleans Parish. Using New Orleans police as an example would have been a bad one, I'm sure you'd agree.

I would agree...sorry no offense but that Police force was the worst in US history at one point...so I HOPE TO GOD your family/friends who were officers there changed things. In that instance I can defintily see them changing laws that the cops recommended...

I think they were the most sued, and most investigate PD for like 10 years in a row....

SORRY TO HAVE GONE OFF TOPIC.....

Now this is something worth talking about.

I can't believe this has happened. This is a serious hit for the 'free speech' concept and I hope there is a huge uproar over this in the US. I doubt there will be though...

Originally posted by rcwj75

Originally posted by roadgravel
or is it just a on the spot call by the police.

See this is what I mean. Police didn't just show up and arrest the guy! We respond to complaints made by others or as I stated we have rules to follow when someone/security makes a citizens arrest. You people really need to learn more about the laws and way laws are enforced before ALWAYS assuming the police make all the decisons.

I got to say this as I have seen you defend cops a lot. I see at least once a week a Cop tazing a 6 year old or was it 11 year old. I see the news showing a Bar fight where some guy orders one and the Bartender a woman, denies him the drink saying he has had too many. The guy jumps over the bar and starts beating the hell out her. Turns out he was an off duty cop.

I seen a video posted here recently where protesters near a UN summit meeting were protesting the recent actions in Tibet. The camera guy following the small group is narrating while Cops are running along the trotting protesters trying to tell them to stop with the protesters ignoring them. The Camera man loudly suggesting they are being harassed by Cops. Keep in mind he is continuously mentioning the fact that they are near the UN meeting.

As they get closer, the cops start pulling out clubs and whack them in the legs. The cameraman yelling words to the effect that it was the worst act of violence, he had ever seen. They were all on the ground moaning while the camera man starts asking for the name of this Cop and that Cop then telling them by name, that "they were in big trouble". This seemed like an obvious setup to make cops look bad. People ate it up here and bashed the cops. Now I know there are Bad Cops, but I strongly believe what we see is rarely the big picture. I believe I know it isn't. Had it not been for finding out how much we don't see about a Cops life, I would have been as blind as many I see here who have no idea.

I grew up the third son of four children, and where ever we lived, I noticed OUR family was never invited to the neighbourhood parties. In High school , I was the one they always shut the door on because I wasn't "cool" I used to resent my Father for that, and it wasn't till I grew up that I finally realized how fortunate I was that my Dad,,

was a Cop.

It would be years later when I had finished my military tour of duty,
I would run into one of those High school Jocks, who shut the door in my face because I wasn't cool. He ran up to me and said he was sorry for the way they used to treat me back then. I said ok. He said you remember me right? I said of course, I just didn't know why the change of heart.

He said he had been in a bad car accident and was trapped in his car with the car in flames. I never knew I said I was sorry that happened to him and started to turn away. He said well,, I just never got a chance to thank him. I turned kind of confused and said who?

He said, your Dad, it was your Dad that pulled the door off the car and pulled me out of it.

My Father never told me about that, in fact he never talked about his work who he saved that day or what risk he took. When I got home, I asked em about it, and all he said was yeah was one of the kids from your school, damn near died and that was it.

Cops don't brag much, but they have a reason too and whenever my Dads cop buddies were over as many of my family were cops too, they never spoke about that stuff or trashed anyone they busted. Maybe on the Job, but when he got home, he left his work at work and would watch the ball game or have a beer and sit on the porch watching us play in the yard.

I asked him recently about all this bad press lately, and he said what you see is the extreme anomalies in every Police dept. That stuff generates its own market for more. The other point was that we, I mean each of us by and large have experienced the Job a Cop has to do from the perspective of the crime we just committed.

That it is fortunate that we have only that kind of frame of reference. That their was a double edged sword to the most rewarding part of his Job and it was why he never really talked about it. It was the part that as much as it justified his purpose, he wouldn't wish it on anyone.

I asked why not? He said because what you rarely will see on TV if ever is the look on their face like your friend had, the one who didn't allow you to a party because he said your Dad was a pig. He said he would rather go through life being called a pig then have to see people learn the lesson your school mate did about what Cops are really about.

Sometimes, he said, the last person you want to see,,

becomes the most important person,,

they are quite literally dying to see.

He said, and sometimes,

that person

was me

- Con








[edit on 31-3-2008 by Conspiriology]

thats just plain stupid arresting someone because they had a little blood on there shirt and yet we got people walking around with pictures of crap worse then that on there shirts and no one says anything.

reply to post by scorpionxx


Walking through the city about a month ago I saw a shirt somebody was wearing that depicted satan lying on his back, with a girl on top having sex with him.

Yep, it was totally explicit and uncensored. I didn't see him getting arrested though...

For the record though, I kind of wish someone had warned him about it, I didn't want to see that and I was shocked to suddenly be confronted with an image like that while shopping.

reply to post by Duality


reply to post by scorpionxx



you guys read the article right? this man was NOT arrested for his tshirt.

he was arrested because he and his group had been handing out pamphlets in the mall. thats against the malls rules.

the security officers approached him and his group at the food court and told them to stop THEN told them they had to remove or reverse their tshirts. (which WAS BS and i dont think anyone is denying that)

this guy refused. he was asked to leave. he refused. at that point he broke the law, he was trespassing and was subsequently arrested by mall security who called the cops who HAD to follow up on the complaint by the mall security.

its not a free speech issue, its a trespassing issue. if his shirt was in violation of the malls dress code (which im sure is a rule used as a catch all in case security just wants you off mall property) then the mall security on behalf of the owners DO have the right to ask you to remove or reverse your shirt or leave. this guy chose to do none of that.

again, i admire the strength of his convictions but he was in the wrong as to how he reacted and handled the situation. though i do believe mall security could have done things different as well.

as rcwj pointed out, they could have called the cops instead of making their arrest at which point the cops could have escorted him off the property and let him go on his merry way...