Bush: U.S. deaths in Iraq 'laid foundations for peace'

Originally posted by heliosprime

Every go the an "anti-war" rally of (war) vets.........everyone there was a green beret or a ranger............amazing how many potato peelers in the kitchen were really green beret's................

erm...

I'm quite surprised to hear you speak about the Special Forces in a negative light. I find that rather odd indeed

Or were you making the inuendo that they actually had a kitchen job but lied about being a green beret? I wouldn't be surprised to hear that though

[edit on 063131p://26u47 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by heliosprime
To say they died for nothing is to say your life is worth nothing.......

Not if you believe, as many do, that the War itself is in vain..

Not if you believe, as many do, that the Islam threat was a scapegoat to something else.

Not if you believe the war was pretensed on false evidence, and driven by greed and not an islamic-threat.

If you believe that, as many do, then you can say the soldiers died in vain. Because they died for a cause they believed to be, but was not so. The War itself is in vain, thus any soldier that dies for this cause, ultimately died in vain.

On a micro level, I am sure most did not die in vain, because they felt they were truly protecting their country. But most soldiers didn't, and still don't, understand what's happening on a macro level. They are being decieved.

Let me phrase it like this: I truly believe my family, friends, and myself would not have been less safe if we had never gone to war with Afgan, Iraq and soon, Iran.

I believe this because I have seen enough evidence to convince my intelligent free-thinking mind that the US Government fabricated evidence, and continues to, in addition to hiding the evidence that they did. I have seen enough evidence pile up, screaming from the bottom of the oil-wells, to tell my educated mind that the US Government is there to pillage resources and maybe even expand territory.



[edit on 073131p://26u15 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by heliosprime

So what truck did you drive well behind the lines? Or were you just a greasemonkey? It is amazing how many have "served" in the first gulf war from as far away as a bar in germany............

So you believe that denigrating someone else's capacity (irrespective of what that may have been) is productive in any manner to the topic at hand? Stay on topic.

Originally posted by heliosprime

Every go the an "anti-war" rally of (war) vets.........everyone there was a green beret or a ranger............amazing how many potato peelers in the kitchen were really green beret's................

Equally as amazing, is how those who talk about it the most, are seemingly those most intimately familiar with that phenomenon.

heliosprime's signature

signature
Truth favors the prepared mind. Freedom in Jesus means being released from the oral traditions, practices, customs of men and their made-up commandments. But keeping the commandments of GOD

Ever notice how your signature seems to be in direct conflict with your feelings?

Oral traditions, practices, AND customs of men ARE to wage war, so your signature says freedom means being released from that, yet YOU are professing that it's the way it SHOULD be...make up your mind man! lol

Or can one assume you believe:
That GOD wants us to wage war
That GOD wants us to wage war illegally
That GOD wants us to fight among ourselves to secure some false sense of security
That GOD wants us to lay waste to his children simply because a few men think it's necessary
That GOD talks down to GWB and says "screw the opinions of your peers, go get em boy! Oh, and don't worry about the civilian life lost along the way, they're coming to heaven"
That GOD


AB1

I do not know if this was said.... but I have seen it said here in this topic that the Iraqi people were less free than they are with the U.S. there.

Freedom cannot be spread at the end of a gun. Freedom cannot be enforced upon people, and Freedom can't be BROUGHT. In all cases of freedom, everywhere and in all times, Freedom is SEIZED by those who most love it and want it.

We are not liberating anyone in Iraq, we are enslaving an entire generation to genocidal hatred of Americans. We are ensuring that theocracy of Islam will remain in the region, bolstered by the evil decadence and hubris that Americans spread wherever they go.

We are relegating our children to face the hatred of the world, despised for our comfortable lackadaizical manner in how we aggress against the indefensible and gorge upon the rapings of nations.

heliosprime is not worth arguing with... he is a troll and is not interested in any real meaningful dialogue... that is why he is on my ignore list and will stay there.

Originally posted by heliosprime
So the US should have never sent troops to europe in WWI&II? Or fought any war outside the borders of the US?...............

We are talking about apples and orange heres. The Iraq was is NOT WW2 or anything else. Its not even a war, its a conflict in the first place. The UN had not sanctioned it, but Bush decided to go in on it anyway.

If we were actually fighting for freedom, which we're not, I'd be the first one to sign up. However, we are occupying Iraq and Afghanistan, 5-7 years in, with no progress being made.

If I can create fear in the small minds of Islamo insanoids then yes, I am a terrorist. I gladly accept that role.

Get with it..Islamo-insanoids want to kill YOU, your family, everything that is YOU. They will take your freedom, your life, rape your wife, slaughter your babies, all in the name of "allah".

According to your definition, you should be in jail. People who create fear in anyone's minds are criminals, and should be punished as such.

Islamists do not want to kill me. Where are they? When was the last terrorist attack? Why aren't I dead yet if the jihad really exists?

They want to destroy the American government, which I'm completely OK with. They do not represent me, I am not them.

The US foreign policy in the Middle East has been completely outrageous for its entire history. We seem to have no problem invading countries, and then expect them to be fine with it. Well, I would not be fine with a foreign invader coming into the US.

If someone invaded your town, would you sit back and let it happen? Or would you be on the streets defending yourself?

Well, that's exactly what some Iraqis believe they're doing. Defending themselves from the foreign invader, the Americans (and British and about 10 other nations).

You obviously have very little understanding of what it means to be a Muslim if you buy whatever the media tells you. I remember a thread you authored about Islam being a fake religion or something to that extent.

You are blinded by hate and I cannot discuss this further with someone who is so close-minded.

You have cut yourself off from reality.

These 4000 gave their lives to protect "their" families, and by accident, I assure you< YOU get the benifit of thier sacrafice.

To say they died for nothing is to say your life is worth nothing.......

No actually. They gave their lives to protect their brothers and sisters in Iraq. A soldier fights for the man/woman next to them, survival at all costs.

They are trying to survive, not fight for freedom. They take orders. Whatever Bushie wants them to do, they have to. Its called treason otherwise, but Bush is the real traitor.

To say they died for nothing has absolutely nothing to do with my life. They believe they sacrificed themselves for America. That's fine. But its not true.

America is over here, thousands of miles away.

Explain this to me. You can completely ignore the rest of my comments, but answer this one question:

How do they protect the US national border by being in a foreign country thousands of miles away?

Any of you pro-Iraq war people can answer this for me. I'm still a little confused. I even started a thread about it, but no one could answer it.

Because YOU DON'T KNOW HOW!

reply to post by biggie smalls


I have seen thousands upon thousands of posts like yours that ask people how Iraq protects freedom, what are the troops dying for, and also realistically... what do we expect from Iraq as a WHOLE?

For some reason, I think people have become psychotic. They can't answer how Iraq BENEFITS America. They vomit up the same detritus as a thousand upon a thousand other posts stating we're fighting them there so we don't fight them here, we're spreading democracy (As if it was like apple seeds), and a lot of other NON-answers to the above questions.

I don't think there is anything that America gets from this war. I don't think Iraq benefits from us being over there. I *DON'T* Think the middle east is a better place for it.

So why, people, WHY do you even support the war at all?

Originally posted by heliosprime
So what truck did you drive well behind the lines? Or were you just a greasemonkey? It is amazing how many have "served" in the first gulf war from as far away as a bar in germany...

What's with the assumptions about what I did? If you really want to know, during the Gulf War I was a jet engine mech/plane caption working on the flight deck of the USS Saratoga. Ever been on the flight deck during flight ops? I was on there 12-18 hours a day 7 days a week for 8 months. 22 of my ship mates were killed in an accident on a liberty ferry. I personally helped save 4 people from a burning supply space and help put out numerous other ship fires, even thought it wasn't my normal duty. I was blown down the flight deck numorous times and over the deck into the net once. Ever seen the non-skid they use? Rips skin right off. I and others barely dodged an exploding spinning prop as it hit another aircraft on landing. Exploding tires blowing peoples ear drums, getting run over by yellow gear, collapsing and dieing from inhaling chemicals, all happened on that 8 month 'cruise'. Not trying to brag but your assumption that people you call 'grease monkeys' are not also risking their lives and working their asses off in the military is rude and naive.
But regardless, what I did is irrelevant, I didn't claim anything I wasn't.

According to Lloyds in London, working on the flight deck of an aircraft carrier is one of the most dangerous jobs in the world...Dangers are everywhere on the flight deck and that is why the people who are working there have to be in perfect physical and mental condition.

Source

But you missed the whole point, the poster I was replying to was implying if the other posters had served they wouldn't be saying what they were.
Maybe you should take something for that 'foot in mouth disease' you have a touch of... Laugh on funny boy...

reply to post by ANOK


Thank you, as I thought a "typical" support person. But glad you were there to save those other guys....



God Bless...................

reply to post by alphabetaone



Nice try but as usual you have no clue......................

Peace is not the absence of war...........it is removing the capability of one's enemy to wage war. The Iraq WAR has kept you safer, even if you refuse to understand it.

Bush is in fact VILE..........but because he is a PC coward who bows down to Islam............There should be no current Iraq war. There should be no Iraq. It should be a staging area for the real evil.....IRAN.

Originally posted by grover
heliosprime is not worth arguing with... he is a troll and is not interested in any real meaningful dialogue... that is why he is on my ignore list and will stay there.

SMOOCHEEEEE there Grover still love you "dude"..........The "ignore" list is the realm of the real warriors......... I am pleased to be on yours....Oh but I am too good looking to be a troll though........

Originally posted by heliosprime
Peace is not the absence of war...........it is removing the capability of one's enemy to wage war

Nice definition of Peace there man ...

You are doing yourself and this Nation a grave injustice fighting in a War when you don't even know what Peace is. Period.

Peace @ Dictionary.com

Peace:

1. the normal, nonwarring condition of a nation, group of nations, or the world.

2. an agreement or treaty between warring or antagonistic nations, groups, etc., to end hostilities and abstain from further fighting or antagonism:

3. a state of mutual harmony between people or groups

4. the normal freedom from civil commotion and violence of a community; public order and security.

**Here are some that I especially love, but will most likely go right over your heard (considering your definition of Peace)**:

5. cessation of or freedom from any strife or dissension.

6. freedom of the mind from annoyance, distraction, anxiety, an obsession, etc.; tranquillity; serenity.

7. a state or condition conducive to, proceeding from, or characterized by tranquillity

At Peace:

13. at peace, a. in a state or relationship of nonbelligerence or concord; not at war.
b. untroubled; tranquil; content.
c. deceased.

Here is a great one from Wikipedia:

Peace @ Wikipedia

Peace can be a state of harmony or the absence of hostility. "Peace" can also be a non-violent way of life."Peace" is used to describe the cessation of violent conflict. Peace can mean a state of quiet or tranquility — an absence of disturbance or agitation. Peace can also describe a relationship between any people characterized by respect, justice, and goodwill. Peace can describe calm, serenity, and silence. This latter understanding of peace can also pertain to an individual's sense of himself or herself, as to be "at peace" with one's own mind.

Here is one from my buddy Jesus:

And when he drew near and saw the city he wept over it, saying, "Would that even today you knew the things that make for peace! But now they are hid from your eyes.
~Luke 19:41,42

[edit on 053131p://26u38 by Lucid Lunacy]

There should be no current Iraq war. There should be no Iraq. It should be a staging area for the real evil.....IRAN.

five years from now you will be saying this:

"there should be no current Iran War. It should be a stagiing area for the real evil.......The Middle East"

Originally posted by heliosprime
Thank you, as I thought a "typical" support person. But glad you were there to save those other guys....

'Typical Support person' What the hell is that exactly? Every member of the military is a support person. I find that comment a little condescending. Do you really think what I did is at the same level as a truck driver or spud peeler? If you do then you're an idiot...Did you even read past the first few lines of my post?

So where did you serve exactly?

Originally posted by Lucid Lunacy

Here is one from my buddy Jesus:

And when he drew near and saw the city he wept over it, saying, "Would that even today you knew the things that make for peace! But now they are hid from your eyes.
~Luke 19:41,42

[edit on 053131p://26u38 by Lucid Lunacy]

When Jesus does return he WILL make peace by destroying evil once and for all time. Take away satans ability to make and create war by throwing him and all his followers into the lake of fire..............

True peace on earth.................forever....................

reply to post by ANOK


There are those who "talk" and those who "DO". Those born to be in "supply" and those born to be warriors...............

Those who survive combat and those who watch warriors come home from the safety of their beds.

Those who protest the loudest about war, claiming to have been there, are always those in "supply"....

GOD Bless your service, at least you didn't run to canada.....

Originally posted by heliosprime
Those who protest the loudest about war, claiming to have been there, are always those in "supply"....

Again you're putting me in 'supply'? What's wrong with you?

Working on a flight deck is not working in supply. You need to get a clue, you must be pretty flexible to get both feet in at the same time...

At least I didn't run to Canada? So my job in the military is only just above not serving at all to you? I could get banned for what I feel like saying to you right now... Truly clueless!

YOU go work on a flight deck and then YOU can come back and tell me what it's like working in supply.

Again where did you serve? You forgot to mention...

The flight deck of an aircraft carrier is one of the most dangerous places in the world, and the lessons of our past are filled with tragic events that prove it.

A board a deployed aircraft carrier, the flight deck serves as the workplace for nearly a thousand Sailors.
Although fraught with danger, it is a place of beauty, skill and timing. Many writers have called the activity that takes place on the flight deck a “ballet.” When it comes to timing and interaction, the comparison is apt, but keep in
mind that some of the other “dancers” are lethal, multi-ton aircraft that, at times, travel hundreds of miles per hour. The dance floor is a hot, stench-filled, steel deck that can be measured in acres and contains hundreds of hazards.
George C. Wilson—author of Supercarrier—said, “An aircraft carrier’s flight deck is a million accidents waiting to happen.” He’s right, but Sailors armed with the knowledge of places to avoid, things to look for, and sounds to
be aware of are more able to manage risk.

Flight-Deck_Awareness PDF

Yeah, I did that from the safety of my bed...




[edit on 26/3/2008 by ANOK]

Originally posted by heliosprime

When Jesus does return he WILL make peace by destroying evil once and for all time. Take away satans ability to make and create war by throwing him and all his followers into the lake of fire

So if Jesus will create Peace by destroying that which is making and creating war... and you're in the war, and you defined Peace through war... does that mean...

Thanks for the Rapture. Just so you know I am well educated on Christianity. I wasn't wanting to turn this thread into a bible session, just added that passage in hopes that it would inspire you. At least this means you read my post on what Peace means

Originally posted by heliosprime
GOD Bless your service, at least you didn't run to canada.....

Just so you know I think there is a few mods that "ran away", or always lived, in Canada

Meh, I live in California but I think traveling into OR, WA, and Canada is friggin sweet.

I don't understand why you can't see your own hate Is the Military to blame for that as well? I don't know. I see Vets on ATS that don't have hate covering their eyes...

Originally posted by ANOK
Again where did you serve? You forgot to mention...

ANOK,

members of the Delta Force are usually hesitant to say ...