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Bush: U.S. deaths in Iraq 'laid foundations for peace'

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posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by COOL HAND
 


The Iraqi parliament has been up and running for years now, but nothing has changed.

They've had plenty of chances to fix their country. They are after all, politicians, who sit behind a desk and do not understand what really goes on in their country.

Cheney is also trying to have a law signed that will require a US presence for longer than Bush's reign. He also wants to privatize Iraq's oil fields so his buddies can get in there and make trillions of blood oil dollars.

I'm a little sick of their rhetoric.

I wasn't trying to spin it. I think both sides are crap to be honest. That's truth not spin.

This is a no spin zone, kinda like fox news


[edit on 3/25/2008 by biggie smalls]




posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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I wouldn't worry about what Dubya says, I would be more concerned about the person who has their hand up Dubya's back door controlling the eyes and mouth and doing a great ventriloquist job.

Considering the world is mostly connected via the internet I don't think any invasion can or will succeed anymore unless total annihilation is the agenda.

The general populas of most countries now, do know what is going on within minutes of it happening, so any propaganda such as bringing freedom or democracy will fall on deaf ears and fail, the people in the countries been "liberated" have grown up to know a certain way of life and living, all of a sudden there is a total breakdown in what they are used to, all that does is help propagate unrest.

Think for a minute, say the West, i.e. America & the UK/Europe became the liberation target for China, and their goal was to help us into their way of life and thinking and free us from the shackles of democracy.

Well wouldn't most of us throw a strop and do what we could to stop the invaders and from changing our normal day to day routine, and basically that is it, the people of Iraq and Afghanistan have and are having their daily routine messed about and quite rightly kick out against it.

Think I may have gone off topic there..............sorry.


Wolfie



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by COOL HAND
I was talking about the Iraqis electing folks who will legitimately kick us out.


That's about as likely as Americans "electing" millionaires who'll end Bush's War.

So long as they can suck the teats of profit, the carnage will continue.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime

The 4000 did hunt down jihadists to save YOUR butt..........rem that!!!!!!



Okay i'll remember that.

Say do you have any more peace-driven soldiers to take out the Christian-Extremists here in the US of A? A few thousand rounds of peace-bullets should do the trick


I see so much hate and disinformation from the Christian-extremists just about every day, and I truly fear for the safety of my family and friends, and the overall hope for humanity.

Please help with the extremists in the US first, then we'll talk about the other ones.

Like I said before, I don't blame the soldiers, they are being exploited for a greed-driven war.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime

Very few sane VET's who actually fought in a war support WAR. Most as do I support peace. WAR sucks.........


Well I guess very few Vets understand this:

By being in a war, you support war. If no one was in the war, there would be no war. You cannot escape the simple logic here.

It seems many Vets have a muddied vision for what Peace actually is as well.

I believe we need a military. But that doesn't mean I have to believe in Invasions. I believe in America. That does not mean I have to believe this war was justified. I believe in Americans. That does not mean I have to believe there is this huge threat of Jihadists-extremists-Muslim-terrorists as you and the military would love.


But there are these nutjobs called "Muslim extremeist" that do want war, the kill all "non-believers", Jews and americans.


Right. Religious extremists are not good for humanity. We have plenty of our own. Most countries do.


That is reality "missy", not "can't we all just get along", "PEACE NOW" stupidity.


If they invaded US. If they were on our nations soil right now, and had been, with a military force, for the span of a decade, then I would support this war and drop my silly stupid notion of Peace.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 08:53 PM
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Just about the only thing these days that allows me to keep my faith in this once great country is the fact that he will soon be out of office... unfortunately, not soon enough.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by mecheng]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 09:12 PM
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Originally posted by mecheng
Just about the only thing these days that allows me to keep my faith in this once great country is the fact that he will soon be out of office... unfortunately, not soon enough.

[edit on 25-3-2008 by mecheng]


True, but look at who's in line to take his place. Every single one of these corporate / M.I.C. 'okayed' puppets are up there for a reason. They will further carry on the agenda's of those who REALLY run our country. Part of that agenda is endless war-profiteering.

NOTHING will change with ANY of these 'selected' candidates---Mark my words.



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


I'm trying to figure out the logic behind this foundation of peace. Like another poster said in this thread...If the foundation entails 4000 US deaths and tens of thousands of Iraqis, what will the actual building be made of? One million people? How many refugees? Ten million?

When will we be done Mr. Bush? What number will satisfy your blood lust?

I don't particularly want to see what your "building of peace" is because it'll probably end up being a house of death, despair, and darkness.

[edit on 3/25/2008 by biggie smalls]



posted on Mar, 25 2008 @ 11:19 PM
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Originally posted by heliosprime
When exactly did you serve? When did you "ask" to fight and keep your country safe?


I served for six years including the first Gulf War, and I agree with every post so far but yours.

So how has not serving got anything to do with your right to voice grievance with your government?

Now do you have anything more relevant to the issue being discussed?
Or are you just here to bitch about the people you think are bitching?

[edit on 25/3/2008 by ANOK]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:03 AM
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Constitutions are all written in blood.

Luckily we had the super power of the day, the French, over here to help us write ours, and thier is French blood in the ink of the constitution wich I swore my life to protect. Is it such a stretch for you jaded liberals to think for one moment other soldiers might feel its only fair to return the favor to other countries looking for liberty?

Why is it SOOO difficult to disconnect the soldiers from the commander? Here is an example exclusive to Americans:

Baron Von Stubbeing (wrong spelling sue me)- was recruited by George Washington to help train our troops to fight better agaisnt the red coats. The Baron wrote home explaining how with Europien troops he had only to tell them WHAT to do and they just did it, but with American troops he had to explain WHY they needed to do a thing BEFORE they would do it. These troops are no less intelligent, peace loving, or thoughtfull than all you liberals talking so much smack about them.

All the America haters always ASSUME that by defending our troops your automaticly a bush chroney, but they should be carefull because turn about is fair play.

You ASSUME that if a US troop doesn't lay down his rifle and start throwing daisies around, in sandles, holding hands with a boyfriend, that he is a warmounger, who would eat children given the chance.

You ASSUME, US troops couldn't possibly think they might be keeping terrorists away from Americas boarders.

You ASSUME all US troops just believe everything bush tells them, like they are his puppets or something.

@AKON- Not having served doesn't lesson one's right to free speech, but it should ADD weight to those speaking who HAVE done thier part, or are you a communist who thinks the doctor should make the same wage as a janitor? They got you brainwashed enough to think your just compensation for your valient service is somehow a 'welfair' handout, maybe you should think about all your Army buddies and reavaluate who your real friends are? Would the guy/gals who put thier lives in harm's way for you aprove? Mine would.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:13 AM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


We'll just see how long the family's of those 4000 soldiers and counting will take this BS laced, passification bait from this clown.

Once they realize Bush, Bush Sr., Cheney, Oil company's and World Banks are seen giving each other "High fives" over the coffins of their sons & daughters... I think the rap party's gonna get heated.

I feel Bush and Co. are so arrogant, they would even make a mockery on national TV over the situation...

Bush Sr. - "Son I told you... just look sincerely into the camera, kinda Cowboy like... this way, we can use their kids as cannon fodder from now until the cows come home, and then, lie to their grievin parents...

Bush - "Cows...Gosh darn I like Ameri-cuh!!... It's that easy dad??"

Bush Sr. - "You bet your fraudulent tour of duty it is...."



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:18 AM
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Originally posted by HellHound63S
@AKON- Not having served doesn't lesson one's right to free speech, but it should ADD weight to those speaking who HAVE done thier part, or are you a communist who thinks the doctor should make the same wage as a janitor? They got you brainwashed enough to think your just compensation for your valient service is somehow a 'welfair' handout, maybe you should think about all your Army buddies and reavaluate who your real friends are? Would the guy/gals who put thier lives in harm's way for you aprove? Mine would.


What the hell are you ranting about? Did you understand the context of the post you are referring to (which was in another thread)? It seems not.

Again my 'handout' had nothing to do with my service. That was the point I was making, I got my 'handout' the same way people who never served do.
The point I was making was that if it so hard for me to get disability for an obvious illness then how can it be so easy for healthy people to get 'welfare' like people think. I know disability and welfare are not the same thing but they come from the same agencies and have the same red tape. I was on 'welfare' (GA) for a year and half and only because I was waiting on a disability claim, otherwise I'd have got it for 6 months, that it, that's welfare. Nothing to do with communism and how much people should get paid. But having said that you can have all the doctors you want but if someone doesn't clean the crap up then we'd need more than a doctors help. It's only your superior attitude that doesn't see the importance of the janitor.

No I'm not a communist, I'm a Libertarian Socialist if you'd really like to know. Just so you won't stereotype me anymore as a communist, and what your uninformed opinion of that is.

Also please show me where I have made the ASSUMPTIONS you claim. Or is that just more stereotyping from you, and you *pointing finger* assuming what I think?

BTW you should really invest in a spell checker, there's no excuse for it...


[edit on 26/3/2008 by ANOK]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 12:19 AM
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After two nights and 5+ hours of Frontlines “Bush’s War” (which ended up being only an addition to the earlier released title “Cheney’s dark side” - or something like that?), I came away with the same question I have had from day one. Why Iraq?

Peak Oil / strategic resource grab
Business greed / multinational price manipulation?
Post Cold War foreign policy strategy / Middle East strangulation move?
Military industrial complex extension / empire America?
Ideological (neocon) foundation for New American Century?
NWO plan to drain Americas life-blood here, by draining Iraq’s there.
Mesopotamian alien return/Biblical Prophesy?
Boredom / hubris?

What ever –

The weakest of all the above arguments is that Iraq is a leadership ‘bungle’ based on post 9/11 reactions and faulty intelligence concerning weapons of mass destruction. This much is made pretty clear, even by a 'watered down' PBS special approved for production by Congressional budget request and corporate donors the likes of Lockheed Martin.


[edit on 26-3-2008 by scrapple]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by ANOK
 


Only the part after your name is adressed towards you, the assumptions that were being made by others, is what were being addressed.

Anarchy of any flavor is not a wise policy to back if your too disabled to work. Funny how 2 of you libratarian solcialists now have gotten on my spelling, like what's anarchy if not the abolition of the law, but you sure cling to the idiotic rules of spelling and are quick to point out T&C, then hide behind those rules. I am a bit of an anarchist in practice only, as I refuse to conform to your silly spelling rules, or to use a stupid spell checker! HA! Take that- RULES! I love but one law- (can you geuss what it is by now?)- the US Constitution!

As far as the janitor/doctor goes it takes alot of hard work to go to medical school, even if it was free, not everyone can be a doctor, if the doctor can only make as much as a janitor what's the docotr's motivation to put in the hard work and do it right? Sure not everyone can be a janitor, it takes a strong stomach, strong legs, strong arms, and a good strong back, but it only takes 10 minutes of training to be a good janitor, I know I've done it.

Like alot of political utopian philosifies, socialism/communism/liberatarian-socailism looks great on paper, but doesn't work so well on real people in the real world. While the US constitution looks stupid on paper, but works just fine in the real world, it worked fine here 'till the poeple got too lazy to enforce it anylonger, but that would be a problem with any law system.

@The Topic- Anything is only worth what your willing to pay for it. Liberty has been paid for in lives over and over, so what do you think its value is?

edit for missing word.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by HellHound63S]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 03:42 AM
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Originally posted by HellHound63S

Anarchy of any flavor is not a wise policy to back if your too disabled to work.


Sillyness. Why are you excluding someone with back problems from finding viable means of production in an anarchistic system? Just because it's anarchy we are somehow de-evolving and going back to the stone-age??

I realize you are not familiar with the "leftist" political philosophies, so let me make this sweet and short:

ATS is completely user driven in content. Guess what? That's anarachy in application. eBay, closer to anarchy as well for similar reasons. Ever heard of Wikipedia? That's completely user-driven and completely anarchistic. Ever heard of Web 2.0? Social Networking? That is also driven by anarchistic principles.


Funny how 2 of you libratarian solcialists now have gotten on my spelling, like what's anarchy if not the abolition of the law, but you sure cling to the idiotic rules of spelling


First off, I am not judging your politcal views or claiming I understand your politcal views, yet you are doing this yourself even though you know very, very little on what you are calling "leftist utopian philosophies". Which actually sounds kinda cool, but that is besides the point.

If you want to show some respect to some fellow Americans then please read into these other political philosophies before you espouse what you think we think. You are uneducated on them, so it's the least you could do, and it's the moto of ATS. I am willing to aid in this endeavor. And would gladly read resources you threw my way.


and are quick to point out T&C, then hide behind those rules.


If I was guilty of that then I would have reported you long since, but I have not.


I am a bit of an anarchist in practice only, as I refuse to conform to your silly spelling rules, or to use a stupid spell checker! HA! Take that- RULES!


Anarchy isn't about anti-rules so much as it's about rules that oppress and infringe on personal liberty. So I don't think an anarchist would be "breaking the rules" of anarchism if he or she wanted you to use a spell-checker for readability... it's not like they are going to cause you harm if you don't. It's just a request, geesh.


I love but one law- (can you geuss what it is by now?)- the US Constitution!


Yes. Yes we did guess. I am a fan with some of it myself. Ironic that it has been during this recent decade with an extreme 'rightist' (such as yourself) administration that we have seen our Constitution and personal liberty abused soooo much. You're fairly new to ATS though right? Perhaps you should read through some older threads if you don't believe this.


if the doctor can only make as much as a janitor what's the docotr's motivation to put in the hard work and do it right?


I am not saying that reflects my ideal social structure, but to answer your question:

In an ideal world, and maybe I am dreaming here, but I would seriously hope a doctor of medicine wants to be a doctor more for the fact that she knows her highly specialized skills is saving lives and furthering humanity, then her desire to make more mula then the janitor!


Like alot of political utopian philosifies, socialism/communism/liberatarian-socailism looks great on paper, but doesn't work so well on real people in the real world.


Just like I mentioned before. You are stereotyping and making unfair judgement calls. You are demonizing these political philosophies becaue of where they failed in China's communism and the Soviet Unions socialism, etc. Do you recall me giving the capitalism to commercialism anology?


While the US constitution looks stupid on paper





but works just fine in the real world


So yeah, if you felt that way, I am curious as to how you ended up on a conspiracy web site?? muahaha.

Seriously though, get used to not all ATS members feeling America's current trend of capitalism/commercialism being as flawless as you would want us to think.


it worked fine here 'till the poeple got too lazy to enforce it anylonger, but that would be a problem with any law system.


No idea what you are trying to say here, but it sounds rather authoritarian to me!


No need to respond, as we are way OT I think. If you are willing to do some reading on these crazy whacky "leftist" utopian theories, and educate yourself enough for a real discussion, then please let me know. Maybe we can create a new thread for it


[edit on 053131p://26u41 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 04:19 AM
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reply to post by biggie smalls
 


Good, since he's going to be out of a job soon (I hope), he can pay back all the time he owns us, for going AWOL in the NG, by being deployed in Iraq, or Afghanistan, as a regular fighting soldier...

Then we will see, as he is being interviewed, by the BBC, while under fire, what he thinks of the 4000 deaths, and the 50000 injured, let us not forget them.

Unfortunately, he we be running some NWO program, under UN financing, that will definitively shred the US CONSTITUTION.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:09 AM
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reply to post by HellHound63S
 


Personally I view using good spelling, grammar etc as a common courtesy to the people I expect to read my rantings. Why should I even bother reading what you have to say if you can't return the common decency of making your post as readable as possible?

You miss-understand, as has already been pointed out to you, what Anarchism actually is...My new sig offers some clue.

There is nothing wrong with rules in an Anarchist type society, we're not naive enough to think we could live without them. The difference with rules in an LibSoc society is they are come by through voluntary association, not forced on people by others who elect themselves into positions of authority. Anarchism is self rule, or better put self-administration. And that 'self' can be an individual or a community. Anarchists offer no blueprint for your life, we just offer you the liberty to live as you see fit without the restraints of self elected authority that is so far removed from you that they could have no idea what is in your* best interest. *Your can be you or a community.

The pursuit of our happiness has been monopolised and exploited by the few at the expense of the many for far too long.

No one can govern you better than you...You can mean an individual, or a community...


Who do you watch?



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 05:18 AM
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I just love Dubay´s way of saying "Laid the foundation for peace" are this guy dropping acid on his cereals???? how much peace is there now in Iraq, ohh we all know, none is the answer, the "coalition of the killing" actually have to make a safe spot called the green zone just to not get hit by angry everyday iraqian people.

So i am gonna go on the leash and say: The 1 million civilian casualties has laid the foundation to even more hostile thoughts against US.



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 06:22 AM
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Originally posted by biggie smalls


How are we kept "safe" by soldiers that are in another country?

How does that make any sense?



So the US should have never sent troops to europe in WWI&II? Or fought any war outside the borders of the US?...............




Insane Muslim terrorists? Are you kidding me.

YOU ARE THE TERRORIST. YOU CREATE FEAR. YOU SIR ARE THE TERRORIST.



If I can create fear in the small minds of Islamo insanoids then yes, I am a terrorist. I gladly accept that role.

Get with it..Islamo-insanoids want to kill YOU, your family, everything that is YOU. They will take your freedom, your life, rape your wife, slaughter your babies, all in the name of "allah".

These 4000 gave their lives to protect "their" families, and by accident, I assure you< YOU get the benifit of thier sacrafice.

To say they died for nothing is to say your life is worth nothing.......



posted on Mar, 26 2008 @ 06:35 AM
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Originally posted by ANOK

I served for six years including the first Gulf War, and I agree with every post so far but yours.

[edit on 25/3/2008 by ANOK]


So what truck did you drive well behind the lines? Or were you just a greasemonkey? It is amazing how many have "served" in the first gulf war from as far away as a bar in germany............


Every go the an "anti-war" rally of (war) vets.........everyone there was a green beret or a ranger............amazing how many potato peelers in the kitchen were really green beret's................



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