Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

Extension:

It still makes no sense to me how Christianity can claim their belief to be monotheistic and Jesus to be the light and the way while their God is explained to be pantheistic and athiestic (that makes it polytheistic) within itself and thus without itself because it is omnipresent ergo within everyones beliefs and therefore it believes in all things and is within all things believed in, and furthermore why they don't understand that this is a contradiction yet merely the way of nature and logic according to their religion in reference to this experience of existence - that which is defined to be essentially the mind of God.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by LastOutfiniteVoiceEternal]

Originally posted by Howie47
If you say, as you have, you are not sure there is a god. That makes you, agnostic. Not atheistic.

atheist: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
The doctrine that there is no God or gods.
agnostic: One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.
One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.
One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.

So your argueing with the dictionary. Not me.

Actually I'm not. Unfortunately, the definitions of both "agnostic" and "atheist" fit me. I know as well as I know anything, (which isn't saying a whole lot), that there is no supreme, omnipotent being. There is very little room in my logic for a god in the literal definition of the word. To me God is more like the Force from "Star Wars". It is in all things, hence my claim of being a pantheist. However, God, to me, is more a reference to the laws that govern Nature and the Universe.

I profess atheism, but not Atheism. (I'll refrain from defining the terms again.) I'm an agnostic in a way because I know that we can't know for certain that there is or isn't a God, but I'm an atheist because I do, in fact, deny the existence of a supreme being based on my own logic. I believe God exists, but not in any sense that is supernatural, unscientific, or Biblical. God is the as-yet undefinable power that is in everything, that makes everything exist. I think, perhaps, that the power is our own consciousness. I believe that I am God, because I believe I create my own reality. Same goes for you. But I base that on logic, not on proof or faith, and my agnostic tendencies come into play when I say I can't prove it, and I can't disprove Atheism, and I can't disprove theism.

Above all things, however, I believe everyone should believe whatever they want to believe, and leave everybody else's beliefs alone unless they ask you for your opinion, or you are participating in a debate such as this one. The only other exception is when others' beliefs infringe on the individual rights of others to believe what they want to believe, which I think is what Dawkins is referring to. I do think faith is the root of all evil, I just don't think it's necessarily faith in God. Faith in your own beliefs being superior to that of others is the real evil, and it's rampant among individual theists and atheists alike, who have been referenced in this thread. I don't think Stalin or Mao can be accused of doing what they did because of their Atheistic philosophies, but I think it can be attributed to their faith in their own ideologies. I do think faith is evil, see a post I made about faith in another thread.

Edit to add emphasis to the most important part of my reply...

[edit on 22/3/08 by an3rkist]

This thread is poorly shrouded bigotry and hatred towards those without a belief in religion.

As usual, atheism is the one that's evil.

To be honest, I don't like Dawkins at all. I think he's the non-religious version of a religious believer (that doesn't really make sense). He follows a dogmatic version of reality and does not wish to ever change his viewpoint.

I'd call that ignorance...

How about we talk about how religions worldwide (I'm not singling out Christianity here) have "airbrushed history?"

I am technically an atheist as I don't believe in religion. I do however believe in a higher power, but that religion is inherently flawed as it was created by man and man is flawed.

I am spiritual, not religious. Sue me.

[edit on 3/22/2008 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
The truth of history however tells a different tale. There have been more mass murders by Godless regimes in the last century than in all the previous centuries combined.

Source, please? I keep hearing this claim. I suppose you have numbers to compare the two and support your argument?

And do remember, none of the Axis powers or their allies in WW2 were by any stretch atheist. Italy remained catholic, Germany followed a non-denominational nationalist version of Christianity, and the Empire of Japan revered the Emperor under the traditions of Japanese Shinto.

Oh and also don't forget, "Religion" exists beyond Europe and the Near East. I want to see numbers from the Americas, Africa, Asia, and even Australia. Hey, the Aborigines weren't atheists or pacifists, so I'm sure there's something.

So please, I await your statistics and sources.

After all, you wouldn't to be airbrushing history yourself, right? By hte way, just to allow an out, "I dunno" is an acceptable answer, so long as you realize such an answer invalidates your initial claim.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

I do not contend atheism is the sole cause of the murders of communism, but it is a strong influencing factor. For that reason Atheism is implicated as a co-conspirator along with Marxism and Darwinism. They have a synergistic effect when combined; that results in a deadly philosophy of materialism.

Please excuse me if you feel ignored. I really can not reply to everyone who has addressed this thread. I have worked for hours just to catch up from yesterday. Also note I happen to be a little under the weather and I need to rest.

Thank you.

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Please excuse me if you feel ignored. I really can not reply to everyone who has addressed this thread.

You've been doing pretty good so far in acknowledging every one but me.

~Ducky~

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Post numbers. Figures. Prove your initial claim before making a second one like "I do not contend atheism is the sole cause of the murders of communism, but it is a strong influencing factor" - which is again, stated without any backup.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
This thread is poorly shrouded bigotry and hatred towards those without a belief in religion.

As usual, atheism is the one that's evil.

To be honest, I don't like Dawkins at all. I think he's the non-religious version of a religious believer (that doesn't really make sense). He follows a dogmatic version of reality and does not wish to ever change his viewpoint.

I'd call that ignorance...

How about we talk about how religions worldwide (I'm not singling out Christianity here) have "airbrushed history?"

I am technically an atheist as I don't believe in religion. I do however believe in a higher power, but that religion is inherently flawed as it was created by man and man is flawed.

I am spiritual, not religious. Sue me.

[edit on 3/22/2008 by biggie smalls]

And what if I told you, that I'm a Christian that doesn't believe in religion! Which I am and which I don't believe in.
A big problem in trying to discuss stuff with others of dogmatic opinions; is that they keep dumbing down the definitions. To make them
more obscure in their meaning. That way people can't be nailed down
to what they actually profess. Their only purpose is to feed the misinformation machine. To keep the world in darkness and confusion.

The old fashioned definition of Religion. Was a methodology to get back
in right standing. (that is why we often call atheism a religion. they think
they have the (right) world view the (right) way of thinking.)
The new has been dumbed down. To just mean believe and worship of a God.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


I could, myself, reply with Carl Marx, or another individual with same causes....but I won't.

Marx, and even Lennon were individuals that raised 'holy terror' amongst the masses. One individual amongst many.

My point is this.

"Just because there were 'certain individuals', in our history that 'became a norm' or were 'stereotyped' amongst the masses, "Does this mean that the 'thinking' surrounding that particular individual 'encompassed the norm'?

I don't think so. There were many who 'were oppressed', and 'went against this type of gendre.'

The ones that survived to this day, and are still living, express resentment towards the 'linear thoughts' of these so-called 'mad-men' of society.

The 'trickle down effects', are what you and I are facing today!

We're stuck with 'stereotypes' and 'past misgivings', that propel unto a new generation - new audience, into believing things of the past.

This is what we're stuck with folks.

~Ducky~

Originally posted by melatonin
Don't be silly. What we see is the result of an authoritarian crazy-dude. Theist crazy dudes (Hitler) and atheist crazy dudes (Stalin) can produce the same result when given enough power.
The one link is both were authoritarian crazy dudes.

I think that most important thing here is not any gods but faith itself.

Faith made it posibble for Hitler, Stalin, Mao etc. to make so horrible things. Because they had so many followers that had faith to that bull# they were telling and to them. There are madmen out there and faith of millions of followers gives them that horrible power. Reason is the cure and faith is diasese.

reply to post by TheDuckster


Marx and Lennon?


I prefer Harpo and Ringo, myself, but well, there you go.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

Post numbers. Figures. Prove your initial claim before making a second one like "I do not contend atheism is the sole cause of the murders of communism, but it is a strong influencing factor" - which is again, stated without any backup.

All you are doing is trying to where are poor brother out. You could of easly googled your answer. Here, fetch.

www.conservapedia.com...

www.csmonitor.com...

www.conservapedia.com...

www.traditionalvalues.org...

There are many more. Just google. "atheism and mass murder".

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

Post numbers. Figures. Prove your initial claim before making a second one like "I do not contend atheism is the sole cause of the murders of communism, but it is a strong influencing factor" - which is again, stated without any backup.

Here some more:

Proof # 666 - Atheism's Body Count *


From outside source: www.hawaii.edu...

www.hawaii.edu...


"It is obvious that Atheism cannot be true; for if it were, it would produce a more humane world, since it values only this life and is not swayed by the foolish beliefs of primitive superstitions and religions. However, the opposite proves to be true. Rather than providing the utopia of idealism, it has produced a body count second to none. With recent documents uncovered for the Maoist and Stalinist regimes, it now seems the high end of estimates of 250 million dead (between 1900-1987) are closer to the mark. The Stalinist Purges produced 61 million dead and Mao's Cultural Revolution produced 70 million casualties. These murders are all upon their own people! This number does not include the countless dead in their wars of outward aggression waged in the name of the purity of atheism's world view. China invades its peaceful, but religious neighbor, Tibet; supports N. Korea in its war against its southern neighbor and in its merciless oppression of its own people; and Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge kill up to 6 million with Chinese support. All of these actions done "in the name of the people" to create a better world. "


[edit on 22-3-2008 by Howie47]

reply to post by HoHoFoo


Ah the many degrees of faith.

Another thing to discuss about....or is it?

The Belief that somethings can come about...through sheer force and otherwise

Is this NOT a belief?

Hmmmm?

~Ducky~

reply to post by Howie47


It goes both ways my friend.

Religion and mass murder:

Religiously-motivated violence, murder, mass murder, terrorism & genocide

U.S. encourages "religious fundamentalism" to counter nationalist & socialist movements

It has been known for some times that U.S. President George W. Bush allegedly “heard God” telling him to invade Iraq. It is also alleged that Bush said: “I’m driven with a mission from God”. Why God would tell Bush to invade Iraq remains a mystery. Bush invaded Iraq because Bush alleged that Iraq possessed Weapon of Mass Destruction (WMD). There were no WMD in Iraq. The war was an immoral act of aggression.

As it is promoted by Western politicians, propagandists and the mainstream media, the new “War on Terror”, is a war against those Muslims, who “hate our freedom”, and who have a broad strategy to “dominate much of the world”. Although most Muslims believe – as Christians believe that Jesus is the only God – that “Islam is the only path to Heaven”, Muslims are not interested in dominating the world, and most Muslims see this as impossible. On the contrary, most Muslim nations are striving to be free from Western domination and imperialism. The Arabs masses, in particular, want “liberation from foreign occupation and the freedoms of opinion, _expression and movement”, noted the United Nations Development Program (UNDP) report.

Religiously-based civil unrest and warfare

Recent religiously-motivated hatred, conflict & violence by followers of Abrahamic religions

reply to post by TheDuckster

I personally don't think Atheists are air-brushing history.

They TOO want to know the truth...Don't they?

Why would Atheists go through the hassles of deleting or smudging out possible historical significances, that would just as likely add credence to their stance?

It is my personal opinion, that Atheists are looking for the truth, just as much as anyone else.

To claim that it is 'souly atheists', guising as 'whatever', and stipulate that these people are exacting some kind of conspiracy towards others in this matter is bogus.

Well Ducky I disagree. They are "ducking" the responsibility of their world view. I directed the OP specifically at the Richard Dawkins crowd. I disagree that it is bogus. I was inspired to do this by Dr John Lennox a colleague of Dr Dawkins at Oxford. Look over his credentials because you are calling him bogus too. There absolutely is a conspiracy by Atheists to hide the true nature of history. It only seems to be apparent to people with strong convictions. It is not bogus.

We need infallible proof people.
"One or two people, that do not act in accordance with the general mainstream or within a 'secret society' does not construe proof as a whole."
We need to, not only fixate our overall visions on the here and now, and what 'might be', but come back to earth folks.
Believe you me, I want to know the truth, as with anyone else.

When Atheists claim atheism has no responsibility for the mass murders of communist dictatorships that's proof that they are ducking history. I demonstrated the influence of atheism on Marx. It's not a secret. there's no secret society, it was right out in the open. Stalin killed Christians and burned churches. Dawkins and company would have us believe that religious faith must have caused him to do it. Well maybe so...faith in Atheism.

Let's suppose these general scenarios:

1. Parts of the bible have been omitted. Nag hammadis - Are we talking about an underground organization within the Vatican, to 'supress the truth'? Deleting (possible?) scriptures that might pertain to the general 'of the bible?

2. Supossed 'air-brushed' pics - that would possibly lead credance to 'other civilizations' that are not of this world.

Help me with this one folks.

Huh, civilizations not of this world

The only way that I can think that this holds water, is if there are so called 'rogue atheists', undermining EVERYONE.

At this point, I would be so bold to say, that these people couldn't be construed as 'Atheists', but mere rogues for what they are. "Adding to the misinformation already present', and purpertrating themselves to be 'top dogs' of nothing.

This isn't helping the situation, as we are all aware of.

If this is the case, then we must all band together to 'not only find a commonality' with these miscreants, but band together - Spiritual and Atheists alike, to turn the tables on those who seek to undermine the over-all truths that have separated our communities to no end.

Maybe you are not familiar with what Richard Dawkins is all about. He thinks if you believe in God you are dangerous and delusional. His book is a best seller than means millions of people are buying into his world view. In his world view atheism has no part in the violence of history. That is just plain wrong and an injustice to the facts of history.

And I was not "ducking" you. If I seem short it's because I am in pain. I am very sick.

"when God is eliminated it really only leaves Darwinism and materialism"

Actually that's not true. There's still spiritualism and Paganism and the beliefs in the spirit of nature etc etc.

Also you can't deny that Christian missionaries have pretty much wiped out most indigenous cultures. Just look at the Native Americans, Africans, and Easter Island.

reply to post by Howie47



Thank you. There are different estimates. But I don't think it is contention by any reasonable historian that Stalin and Mao killed far more people than the Inquisition. Not even in the same order of magnitude. It is simply absurd. Fox just wants to argue figures.

Nap time.

Originally posted by TheDuckster
reply to post by HoHoFoo

 

Ah the many degrees of faith.

Another thing to discuss about....or is it?

The Belief that somethings can come about...through sheer force and otherwise

Sorry, my talent in english is so poor that this sentence flow far over my head....

Wars are fought for money and power. Religion may be a backdrop but it's all for power of one religion over all. All that atheism proves is that some people don't believe in a god.