Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

reply to post by an3rkist


"""I'm an atheist who does not believe in Darwinism, and I bet I have less material possessions than you do. (I own nothing but a truck, clothes, blankets, and a few books.) Even atheists have morals, whether you'd like to believe it or not. I know it scares you to think that it's possible, because if morals don't come from God then where do they come from? But we do have morals, some of us more so than most theists. """"


i agree with you, these attacks on atheists, are just a crude way of separating and dividing people into "the good guys and the bad guys". classic right-wing tactics that frankly are getting old and tiresome. when are these people going to grow up and quit basing their lives on "fear of others". this is why people like this are on the fringe (so far), and the majority of people don't take them seriously. actually, and i know this will really set them off, i think we should send all these religious fear mongers to utah...sorry utah...there they can rant and rave, condemn and postulate all they want to and leave all the rest of us reasonable and rational people alone. the 15th century of religious dogma and strife are over. why utah?...well they do have those orthodox morman communities where you "marry" 12 year old girls and every 4 or 5 years, you marry another 12 year old girl. so the rest of these religious fundementalists will fit right in.


[edit on 22-3-2008 by jimmyx]

reply to post by Astyanax


As an individual whose family tree can be traced back to the fuedal clashes between scottish and english landlords, i happily condone this statement as fact.

Originally posted by Astyanax

Nor did I say there was. Its presence or absence is not the issue here, however, but its perceived desirability.

You said

"if you think lobbying for rigorous separation of church and state amounts to a conspiracy against religion, then you definitely have a conspiracy here." - Astyanax

To do that, you would have to disconnect the foundations of the government as they were originally perceived and rebuild them. They were perceived on the ideal that all men/women have free will to choose what they will believe, this includes whether they believe in one god or another. It was meant as a form of protection for peoples all over the world, who were punished, murdered, tortured, harrassed, mangled, mutilated, disenfranchised of their material possessions, denied work and restitution, because of their faith. It took awhile for the rest of the related issues to follow suite, such as the race, gender, and so on.

Anyway, to lobby against something that forms the foundations of the government, is asking the government to remove your protections as agnostic or atheist. If the plug is pulled on free will in worship and thought,
no one will be immune.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Hop into my car and let's take a spin: "The thing about people of faith is we don't all believe the same thing. Some may be belief structures but they differ. It's pretty ignorant to lump all people of faith into one category."

Most times, people of faith do lump others into a 'heathen' basket. Most times we read anything from a christian, a mormon, a muslim, etc.. whoever, it is more or less about how anything but being of said religion is the cause of their ills, and only 'their' god can provide relief.

However, ahtiests belong to a religion of their own. An athiest says "No way, youre all wrong" and based on the same reasoning - what THEY personally feel to be truth.

So in this regard, hehe.. you all deserve each other..

Now me, I don't know if any of you are right, so I'll stick my agnostic hat on my head and just sit by till the end of time... because while religion changes, ultimately, faith doesnt. And faith that there is something else beyond a story told to tribes and clans thoughout the ages, leads me to hope for something better.

Otherwise, we're a pile of ants gathering in a desert waiting to die but never aware of how futile we are..

Originally posted by sizzle
Anglos by far are the most murderous group of people on the face of the earth. So I would surmise that if any of us have any anglo in us at all, then we probably have a murderer in the tree somewhere. Soooo. maybe we better be careful about casting those stones. Huh?

I thought that was communists?

Wish people would make up their minds here...

I don't take the blame inividually for those crimes. That's another christian thing, you know, taking on guilt for the crime of a long-standing ancestor. Even took a blood sacrifice to come close to helping to remove such a stain, according to some anyway.

However, in their nationalistic/jingoistic fervour, british people have done some crap across the world. I'll apologise to any descendents of people my ancestors might have hurt whilst being ordered to act for the empire and royal dudes. No blood sacrifice though, I need ma blud.

Sorry!

[edit on 22-3-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by Bigwhammy

Are Atheists Air Brushing History?

Nice post, Bigwhammy! Really. Good job. People have committed atrocities throughout history (real history). Some in the name of God, some in the name of Allah, some in the name of secularism, some just because... But to group the members of any group as though they think with one mind is dangerous and inaccurate.

But... I can't really describe how humorous and ironic I find the title of this thread... I think the first place we need to look when discussing history and the modification thereof, is at the religious community.

The stories being told by religions are not history; some sort of factual account of reality. Instead, they are stories told to each other to explain why we're here and to assure us about where we're "going" after we die. Oh, and to control our behavior in the meantime. So to call out Atheists for "air-brushing" history sends me into a giggling fit! LOL

And those who would have the gall to think for themselves and refuse to believe these fantastical stories (of which there is no proof nor scientific basis) are being accused of "air brushing" these stories.

Personally, I don't care what other people believe. But my refusal to buy the craziness that religions are selling does, in no way, equate to me wishing to "air brush" your stories. I don't want to air brush your stories. They don't matter to me enough to want to change, modify, rearrange or even hear them. Paint your pictures, tell your stories. Have a great time.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
The very conspiracy is to set up two insufficient systems while those in power subscribe to neither...because they are both flawed.

I love it. I have been following this thread and thinking this all along. "Divide and Conquer."

Doesn't matter what you pick.

Skyfloating, I couldn't have said it better myself.


[edit on 22-3-2008 by Realtruth]

reply to post by melatonin

I don't take the blame inividually for those crimes. That's another christian thing, you know, taking on guilt for the crime of a long-standing ancestor.

It is??
First I have heard about it.
Geez, I've got a lot of catchin' up to do. How many crimes do you suppose I need to take responsibility for?

Lol! I always love it when an atheist tells me what a Christian believes...

[edit on 22-3-2008 by sizzle]

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
So to call out Atheists for "air-brushing" history sends me into a giggling fit! LOL

I think we can see such 'air-brushing' in this very thread. Mao and Stalin were apparently big darwinists, although they both supported non-darwinian version of evolution, even to the extent of directly causing many of the deaths they cite as evidence of the evils of darwinism. Stalin was even throwing scientific opponents to Lysenkoism into gulags.

Darwin himself being painted as an atheist, although he clearly said even in his most extreme position he never was.

Painting evolution and atheism as equivalent, when they certainly are not.

Then we have Dickie Dawkins being air-brushed to state that religion/faith is the cause of all evil, when he said no such thing.

The argument used in this thread is no different to saying: A character called Jesus was the major bible dude. The bible influenced Luther and de Gobineau. Hitler was influenced by Luther's anti-semitism and de Gobineau's Aryanism. Therefore Jesus was a major cause of the final solution.

If you question that statement, you would obviously be attempting to 'airbrush' history.

The point is that neither theism or atheism really determine the morality/ethics of an individual. Actions not labels. Atheists can do bad stuff, and so can theists. Conversely, atheists can do good stuff, and so can theists.

Originally posted by sizzle
It is??
First I have heard about it.

Geez, I've got a lot of catchin' up to do. How many crimes do you suppose I need to take responsibility for?

Lol! I always love it when an atheist tells me what a Christian believes...

Heh, are you serious here? A major foundation of the predominant christian denominations is the crime of two people eating from the tree of knowledge. The crime that makes us all so sinful by nature and requires salvation by acceptance of a blood sacrifice.

By the apparent actions of two people with no knowledge of good or evil, we are fallen people. We are guilty of their actions, and must act to overcome it. Depraved, disgusting, sinful humans. Ancestoral sin.

Like most religions, christianity says you are bad to the bone and not good enough in your natural state, only conforming to our instructions can you be cleansed (ABE: or burn in hell for eternity if you don't).

Quite the snake-oil.

ABE: given not all forms of christianity do have such a crap view. I know a few who conform to more humanistic versions of Xianity.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by WraothAscendant


reply to post by WraothAscendant


I agree with everything you say. That's why I said, "I believe in Man and science but not without question."

reply to post by melatonin


Gee Mel,
If that is the way you see Christianity, no wonder you hate it. I would to.
I think I would go barf on something.

Qoute [I'm an atheist who does not believe in Darwinism, and I bet I have less material possessions than you do. (I own nothing but a truck, clothes, blankets, and a few books.) Even atheists have morals, whether you'd like to believe it or not. I know it scares you to think that it's possible, because if morals don't come from God then where do they come from? But we do have morals, some of us more so than most theists./]

[

[edit on 21/3/08 by an3rkist]

Really? Then where do you think everything came from? It was either
created by a creator. Or zip, boom bang, suddenly appeared out of nothing,
by it self. Please suggest an alternative!
Everyone tries to take the moral high ground. Until they get into power.
Then, and only then. There true colors are revealed.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Howie47]

Sorry, double post.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by Howie47]

Richard Dawkins was recently caught with his pants down. He was
'payed for a interview for this movie. www.expelledthemovie.com...
In the interview, He said, " life on earth may have come from aliens.
But not from God. " The theory of evolution, is totally cap-put! It has been
for years. Only the propaganda mill keeps it alive. As I've shown in this
comic. www.youtube.com...
Be sure and see; "Expelled". Being released April 15.
It's so important. Dawkins himself, gate-crashed a screening, recently.
Story here. www.evolutionnews.org...

Originally posted by sizzle
Gee Mel,
If that is the way you see Christianity, no wonder you hate it. I would to.
I think I would go barf on something.

Heh, no, I see as you would expect an atheist to see it, a story. That's the way many christians essentially see it. However, not all though. Just read up on it if you don't know it. Maybe get one of the fundiegelicals to explain the fall and salvation to you. I'm sure they'll wrap it in more poetic language for sure, but what I suggested is what it essentially comes down to. Adam & Eve did bad, all humans punished and you are thus depraved/sinful, but no worries, we can save you, accept the blood sacrifice, or suffer eternal punishment.

Don't particularly hate it to be honest. Better things to give my emotions to. I actually don't mind the more liberal forms of christianity. I wasn't even worried about sending my sprog to a CofE school.


[edit on 22-3-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by Howie47
Be sure and see; "Expelled". Being released April 15.
It's so important. Dawkins himself, gate-crashed a screening, recently.
Story here. www.evolutionnews.org...

Yes, well done Howie. I'm sure the creationista overlords will appreciate you transmitting their lies.

PZ Myers signed up online. No tickets required. He, and everyone else, was allowed to take guests. He took Dawkins, his trophy wife, daughter, her boyfriend.

PZ Myers and Dawkins were both lied to to get interviews. But when PZ appeared to watch the film he contributed to, and was thanked for in credits, they 'expelled' him from the queue. Ironic, no?. Dawkins wasn't asked to leave. He watched the film with the rest of PZ's family.

No gatecrashing required. He was entitled to watch the film, signed the forms required etc. And wasn't asked to leave.

ABE: oh, and the film is crap. A boring rant against evilution by a group of creationists, moaning about how science keeps religious ideology out of science, whilst mixed with pictures of nazis and stuff. And intellectually vacuous argument.

You'll probably love it.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin

Originally posted by sizzle
Gee Mel,
If that is the way you see Christianity, no wonder you hate it. I would to.
I think I would go barf on something.

Heh, no, I see as you would expect an atheist to see it, a story. That's the way many christians essentially see it. However, not all though. Just read up on it if you don't know it. Maybe get one of the fundiegelicals to explain the fall and salvation to you. I'm sure they'll wrap it in more poetic language for sure, but what I suggested is what it essentially comes down to. Adam & Eve did bad, all humans punished and you are thus depraved/sinful, but no worries, we can save you, accept the blood sacrifice, or suffer eternal punishment.

Don't particularly hate it to be honest. Better things to give my emotions to. I actually don't mind the more liberal forms of christianity. I wasn't even worried about sending my sprog to a CofE school.


[edit on 22-3-2008 by melatonin]

I think the only problem with atheist is; that they have no strength or power to overcome religious demons. Which are the worst demons. As soon as you say you believe in God. The religious demons attack.
As long as you remain (neutral), you don't have to fight in the war.
Of course no one knows which side the neutral is on. (except God).
The neutral will always be know as a coward, even if he is on the right side.

Originally posted by Howie47
I think the only problem with atheist is; that they have no strength or power to overcome religious demons. Which are the worst demons. As soon as you say you believe in God. The religious demons attack.
As long as you remain (neutral), you don't have to fight in the war.
Of course no one knows which side the neutral is on. (except God).
The neutral will always be know as a coward, even if he is on the right side.

Yes, of course. I'm being attacked by demons...



Sorry mods, a demon made me post that. I'm such a coward, I couldn't stop him. ABE: I suppose we can add to the previous: some christians also think that people can be attacked by daemons, only by accepting the blood sacrifice can you gain strength to eject the evil spirits. That sounds almost like scientology with pollution from evil alien things.

*out bartimaeus!*

[edit on 22-3-2008 by melatonin]

I find it somewhat ironic that a believer in what is arguably a mythical account of a demigod, not backed up by any verifiable historical documentation, is so concerned about historical accuracy.