what you should know about the 14th Dalai Lama

reply to post by NorthWolfe CND


In other words:
You start to realize that being presented proof and evidence to support the view that your holiness is not that holy is starting to disrupt and destroy your viewpoints, which it might mean you might need to change your world view towards your once-believed-to-be-holy-perfect old man, who will most likely never bring a paradise or utopia in this evil world anymore to you. So you rather close up your ears to listen to anything that might really make the holy unholy and human again, and therefore have nothing meaningful in your life to hold on.

Yes, please continue wandering around in this board and continue denying ignorance, you need it.



[edit on 22/3/08 by IchiNiSan]

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND

The only blood China has is the blood of free Vietnamese fighting for the integrity of their country

So, are we forgetting the attempt by the Peoples Republic of China to invade Vietnam in February of 1979? Or do PRC people forget every event in which they get their asses kicked?

these words have proved how ignorant you are.
really not worthy of arguing with you.

Originally posted by wwssii
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

you stick to your opinion just because you firmly believe what you read and heard.
i think your evidence is lie.
you reckon our evidence is propaganda.

that is the key crux.

i introduce you read about this book. , written by Stavrianos, L.S....an world-wide famous american historian can give you every picture of his that prove that tibet always is a part of China.

dont tell me this professor is also a gov agent.

[edit on 22-3-2008 by wwssii]

[edit on 22-3-2008 by wwssii]

Please, I beg you, don't quote idiots like Stavrianos and then call them historians. It offends me as one.

Thank you very much!

P.S.

Try The Cambridge Illustrated History of China by Kwang-ching Liu (a Chinese Historian, by the way) and Patricia Buckley Ebrey

China by Wang Tao (another Chinese Historian)

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND

Please, I beg you, don't quote idiots like Stavrianos and then call them historians. It offends me as one.

Thank you very much!

P.S.

Try The Cambridge Illustrated History of China by Kwang-ching Liu (a Chinese Historian, by the way) and Patricia Buckley Ebrey

China by Wang Tao (another Chinese Historian)

you are welcome. lol.
i know Kwang-ching Liu well.. thanks your mention of him.. what happens in his book?

reply to post by IchiNiSan


Listen, [Snip] in what post, exactly did you see me defending the DL, Tibet or the Holy Grail, for that matter? Please read my posts and tell me. I am no hippie Buddhist defender and I don't talk to PRC bots, like yourself.

If you are not a PRC bot please read my posts, before accusing me of being this or being that!





Mod Edit: Personal comment removed. Please see Courtesy Is Mandatory and remember to go after the ball, not the player. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 22/3/08 by JAK]

reply to post by wwssii


The history of China, which you obviously don't know. Never heard of the Chinese invasion of Viet Nam in Feb. 1979???????

Go do your homework junior, [Snip]









Mod Edit: And AGAIN. Personal comment removed. Please see Courtesy Is Mandatory and remember to go after the ball, not the player. Further violations of the Terms and Conditions of Use 2) Behavior will not be tolerated. Thank you - Jak

[edit on 22/3/08 by JAK]

If you're telling me that I have about as much understanding of china's history as you do of Tibet's then I could live with that.
You don't understand anything about Tibet's history either.

By the way, if you guys did so care about China, where were the yells and screams for "world help" when most part of China faced a disastrious winter storm in January/February? Do you even know that there were hundreds of million Chinese people, Han and other minorities, being affected causing mayhem and suffer to the extend that many couldn't even have access to the very basics of food, water, not to mention electricity or other "luxuries" which you guys take for granted as basics.
NOT one single thread in ATS I could find talking about that disaster, and where were the Western media reporting of this disaster in China? Or the "human rights" group organizing concerts to collect money for saving and relieving?

Probably Ichinisan because of the great secrecy of your Government and the way pride prevents Chinese people from admitting they need help or even simply asking for it.

by wwssii

these words have proved how ignorant you are.
really not worthy of arguing with you.

If that were really true then you'd stop arguing with him and ignore him but you can't. So in effect you were only saying that to insult him.


I tried to talk to you with sincerity and as a human being wwssii, but I see sadly that this is not possible.



[edit on 22-3-2008 by sy.gunson]

reply to post by sy.gunson


hi gunsun...

what he said about the China's invasion of vietman is absolutely wrong. it is vietnam invading China first, then China fighted back.. the time is in 1979 , it is not far from now. so i dont think anyone can lie in this regard...he is just wanting provocation, and i am not willling to argue with him on such clear truth...Chinese troops even attacking enemy to their capital, but afterwards chinese retreated to the original border and China never occupied any tiny land of vietnam...
oh, god, are there any even a tiny truth about China can be accepted world-widely?

you said that you tried to regard me as a human being?????. dont try to annoy me in such an arrogant way, i never take this seriously....

i just dont want to argue with any arrogant ones. .. and you'd better to check all my post, are there any dirty words in them?? what about yours and others against me?? dont think that i as a chinese cant speak dirty english. i just dont want to low my level of civility.




[edit on 22-3-2008 by wwssii]

reply to post by wwssii


It's not time I'm lacking, it is my patience that is fading away...

In February 1979 PRC attacked along virtually the entire Sino-Vietnamese border in a brief, limited campaign that involved ground forces only. The Chinese attack came at dawn on the morning of 17 February 1979, and employed infantry, armor, and artillery. Air power was not employed then or at any time during the war. Within a day, the Chinese People's Liberation Army (PLA) had advanced some eight kilometers into Vietnam along a broad front. It then slowed and nearly stalled because of heavy Vietnamese resistance and difficulties within the Chinese supply system.

On February 21, the advance resumed against Cao Bang in the far north and against the all-important regional hub of Lang Son. Chinese troops entered Cao Bang on February 27, but the city was not secured completely until March 2. Lang Son fell two days later. On March 5, the Chinese, saying Vietnam had been sufficiently chastised, announced that the campaign was over. Beijing declared its "lesson" finished and the PLA withdrawal was completed on March 16.

Hanoi's post-incursion depiction of the border war was that Beijing had sustained a military setback if not an outright defeat.

Some suggestions so that our PRC friends learn a little bit about the History of China, just so they are able to sustain a discussion about their own country:

- China and the Vietnam Wars, 1950-1975 by Qiang Zhai (again a Chinese historian)

- Dragons Entangled: Indochina and the China-Vietnam War by Steven J. Hood

www.china-defense.com/history/sino-vn_1/ for more references.

reply to post by NorthWolfe CND


your impatience? nothing to do with me! dont be so arrogant, mate!
and now china has no border dispute with vietnam.
so, if you claim what you said, you can post another title, but sorry, i am not giving you favor to argue with you!

you are ignored.

reply to post by wwssii


No, that is not what you said, and I quote:

"The only blood China has is the blood of free Vietnamese fighting for the integrity of their country"

That is what you said, not what you meat to say but...
You had no idea about the war of 1979...strangely you admit China has Vietnamese blood on its hands.
So, does China have Vietnamese blood on it's hands, or not?

Last post, see you in Macau (but only after you've read a few more books on your country, written by your countrymen. The Party wouldn't be too pleased with you if you couldn't teach a poor westerner a few points about your noble pass, would it?).
Or those the Party only let you read Mao and Fortune Cookies?

P.S.

Hope there is not another foul in there, but I couldn't resist...I am week

Besides all "truths" and reports from both sides, the chinese just have to acknowledge one hard fact - their country has a very serious PR problem.

It won't matter, what is being posted here regarding the Dalia Lama - he will remain the humble, peaceful person he is in the "western" view, while China will always be seen as the aggressive oppressor. China wasn't, isn't and won't be able to change that, no matter how hard it is trying. Tibet is the underdog and the public will always be supportive of the smaller opponent, especially with a PR genius like the Dalai Lama heading them.
I don't know, if the chinese members here are able to see, how the DL is viewed by the majority of us westerners - he's on par with Gandhi, Mother Therese and i guess, even big old J himself. Ask the people, whom they consider to be the most peaceful person on this planet and i bet, that at least 75% of the western population will at least mention the Dalai Lama. Face this fact, China - you won't change that and the only possibility to get out of this mess without being labeled a member of the "axis of evil" will be in collaboration with him and not with calling him a criminal.
As said, facts won't matter and truth is subjective. The western public "truth" is that China is an evil, communist, oppressive nation while the Dalai Lama is a peaceful, humble, holy man.
While through military force, China will be able to put an end to the tibetan riots, it more and more feeds the notion for a boycott - not only on Beijing 2008, but on all chinese products.

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
Besides all "truths" and reports from both sides, the chinese just have to acknowledge one hard fact - their country has a very serious PR problem.

This is one statement I can agree with, we do have a PR problem, a big one even. But it ain't that bad that the world will ignore and boycot China, because either you like it or not to the rest of the world will always remains an exotic Far Eastern country full of traditions & culture that many are dreaming to learn and understand more about. We have great ambassadors in the persons of Overseas Chinese people who are on relatively higher educated, often more loving and less trouble-making than other minorities (in your country) to spread this Chinese culture. So although the PR officers of our government need some polishing up and maybe plainout replacement, our more than 5000 year culture and compassionate common people at home or overseas are balancing it out, and actually most likely in favor of pro-China.

It won't matter, what is being posted here regarding the Dalia Lama - he will remain the humble, peaceful person he is in the "western" view, while China will always be seen as the aggressive oppressor. China wasn't, isn't and won't be able to change that, no matter how hard it is trying. Tibet is the underdog and the public will always be supportive of the smaller opponent, especially with a PR genius like the Dalai Lama heading them.
I don't know, if the chinese members here are able to see, how the DL is viewed by the majority of us westerners - he's on par with Gandhi, Mother Therese and i guess, even big old J himself. Ask the people, whom they consider to be the most peaceful person on this planet and i bet, that at least 75% of the western population will at least mention the Dalai Lama. Face this fact, China - you won't change that and the only possibility to get out of this mess without being labeled a member of the "axis of evil" will be in collaboration with him and not with calling him a criminal.
As said, facts won't matter and truth is subjective. The western public "truth" is that China is an evil, communist, oppressive nation while the Dalai Lama is a peaceful, humble, holy man.

Indeed totally agree, because most of the western public are already being manipulated for so long that nobody can change most of these "Western truth", we just need to look in ATS to see how many keep on even refusing to look into the presented "proof and evidences" about the Dalai Lama (clique) in a more objective way or to ask themselves if the man is maybe less holy than they had always thought. Even here where people comes to deny ignorancy, ah well. The real "truth" and hard facts can be cruelling sometimes.

While through military force, China will be able to put an end to the tibetan riots, it more and more feeds the notion for a boycott - not only on Beijing 2008, but on all chinese products.

See comment above, I do believe the world is overly pro-China instead of anti-China. So consumers will eventually keep on buying made-in-China products, or made-in-"Good Country" products which majority of the components are made-in-China And the Olympics will go on as planned, I am only afraid of that more terrorist activities will occur to sabotage this.



[edit on 22/3/08 by IchiNiSan]

reply to post by IchiNiSan


From the perspective of an individual who sees acts of good as something that can only happen if the individual puts the effort in, instead of relying on others, i cannot help but feel you're being a tad negative here.

So what if people do believe that the Dalai Lama possesses the capability to restore some of the damage done by our moral indulgence over the past few decades?

There isn't anything wrong with trusting others, last time i checked.

Originally posted by Throbber
reply to post by IchiNiSan

 

From the perspective of an individual who sees acts of good as something that can only happen if the individual puts the effort in, instead of relying on others, i cannot help but feel you're being a tad negative here.

So what if people do believe that the Dalai Lama possesses the capability to restore some of the damage done by our moral indulgence over the past few decades?

There isn't anything wrong with trusting others, last time i checked.

And Chinese members over here are being accused of being brainwashed? What would be the difference if the individual is only being screened and informed of the acts of good and not being informed of the acts of grey or even black behind the scenes? In this case "Relying on others" means very close to being brainwashed, or maybe worse....

Of course I have no problem if some of the Dalai Lama followers need him to heal some of the damages caused to their moral indulgences, I will only cheer them to always keep on doing that if they really need something pure to hold on. My critics on them is that this supporting becomes a religion for them, and I see in here and in many other places that some of them become quite fanatic.

And no, nothing wrong with trusting, we can trust others as well, but blindly trusting and ignoring the facts? That is not denying ignorance, that is asking to be kept in a dream.

reply to post by IchiNiSan


I suppose that would depend on the level of trust we're talking about - obviously those who trust others blindly lack maturity.


As you may not have noticed, i do infact sincerely doubt that the majority of Chinese people have been brainwashed, HOWEVER - i do believe that certain Chinese citizens (in positions of power) have been.

Perhaps by convincing them that their actions are integral to the continuation of the Chinese state or something equally as emotionally driven.

By the way, i think you may have misunderstood my meaning of moral indulgence, as in; Creating your own individual sense of morals that works in your favour.

My understanding of the term serves to explain why people who live their lives in a state of pure greed can get some sleep at night.

Some would refer to that as Ethics, but the difference is subtle.

I still fail to understand why it is so nessecary to attack the Dalai Lama over the protests when in reality it would seem he has had very little involvement with the actions, what with him being exiled and all...

I do infact recall passages in one of the DL's Books where he bids the reader not to trust him absolutely, and asks the reader to find out for themselves how it is best to follow buddhism.

It would seem he is trying to avoid the image of a spiritual leader altogether.

I realise that this does infact make him all the more suspicious to a cynical mind, but from what i can see, what the man speaks is noteworthy to say the least.

I'll tell you what, if you can explain to me, specifically, what precisely is wrong with the people who are rioting and protesting in Tibet and why THEY should stop doing it, i'll believe in you and i'll trust that you are on the right track.

Otherwise, all i see is rhetoric mumblings using the DL as a method of damning the political actions of those - in some cases fighting for their lives - on the ground in Tibet.

Just an FYI for those who need to know more...

web.wenxuecity.com...

You are either a Chinese National or paid is all I can think. You know nothing about HHDL and your facts are incoherent and border on the ludicrous.

Try this with less informed people, but suggest to just stop while your spirit is yet corrupted more.

Blessings to you and may you see the path of the heart some day soon, and not the path of fear and anguish.

ZG