what you should know about the 14th Dalai Lama

Originally posted by Myrdyn
Reply to CrazyBoy0:

Subversion, disinformation and propaganda is a common tactic and unless handled very sensitively, can often have the reverse effect.

In the UK we know the Dalai Lama a little better than you might think. Both he and your Premier Wen Jiabao are intelligent men and they no doubt, respect each other's point of view.

However, China is allowing itself to be drawn into a situation not too dissimilar from the earlier troubles in Northern Ireland. Media attention is being focussed and the 'underdogs' will always appear to be the victim.

You may be able to win the fight, but as always, you will find the 'peace' much harder to win.

China needs to facilitate peaceful dialogue immediately, otherwise the Beijing Olympics will be boycotted.



[edit on 19/3/08 by Myrdyn]

Connect the sports with politics. That's your normal way to solve problem? I see this more like a threaten in the very nature.
So if you like to boycott Olympics, please do. Because you also are not welcome to join this game due to your plain one-way brain.
BTW: Do you think your method will be accepted by Olympic Committee?
Dream ~

Originally posted by Sheeper
As you can see by this board and other places. The rest of the world does not feel the same way as you, in general we don't trust the chinese govn't, we see it as corrupt and we see communism as an old dark evil party. Obviously we see things differently but that isn't gonna change, sorry.

Because you have lived without brain for many years and you used to it.
Pity. To note you have less source than him,so you have no right and ability to deny him. Sorry

Originally posted by yellowcard

He wants a free Tibet, and is actively campaigning for help and for the freedom of Tibet. China wants Tibet to surrender, and he is an annoyance, and a possible threat to their cause. Of course they will say every negative thing they can about him, whether they are being truthful, and unbiased or not. I suspect not..

Yes, but The America Government doesn't kill their citizens, there are conspiracy theorists that say otherwise...but when you have a serial killer that could be found innocent, it's hard to believe that the government always takes lives with a whim. The Chinese government however is an evil institution, and who cares if the Dalai Lama had slaves? You are a slave to your own government, a tool and nothing more. You will never enjoy freedom, because you'll never have it.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by yellowcard]

Every person has his own freedom, so please shut up about barking at others' freedom.

Originally posted by yellowcard

He wants a free Tibet, and is actively campaigning for help and for the freedom of Tibet. China wants Tibet to surrender, and he is an annoyance, and a possible threat to their cause. Of course they will say every negative thing they can about him, whether they are being truthful, and unbiased or not. I suspect not..

Yes, but The America Government doesn't kill their citizens, there are conspiracy theorists that say otherwise...but when you have a serial killer that could be found innocent, it's hard to believe that the government always takes lives with a whim. The Chinese government however is an evil institution, and who cares if the Dalai Lama had slaves? You are a slave to your own government, a tool and nothing more. You will never enjoy freedom, because you'll never have it.

[edit on 20-3-2008 by yellowcard]

GO checking about the massacre to Indian! liar and killer are the best description of the US gov't

Originally posted by NorthWolfe CND
reply to post by chinawhite

 

The US was there for their own personal gain to stop communism. They propped up a dictator and used billions of dollars and killed millions of Vietnamese stopped them from uniting. The only blood China has is the blood of free Vietnamese fighting for the integrity of their country


So, are we forgetting the attempt by the Peoples Republic of China to invade Vietnam in February of 1979? Or do PRC people forget every event in which they get their asses kicked?

The fact is PRC was striking back to Vetnam, and after the victory they never dispose army in Vetnam. Meanwhile today, in Iraq, the US and British army spreads all over the corner there. Who is the worse guy we see it clearly~

Originally posted by IchiNiSan
reply to post by sy.gunson

 

hah, and you try to use these examples to showcase what? You only proof that you really don't know anything about the 5000 year long Chinese culture and history. Ok, you might know some names and some years here and there, but from how you are posting we can see that you don't understand any meaning behind it.

By the way, if you guys did so care about China, where were the yells and screams for "world help" when most part of China faced a disastrious winter storm in January/February? Do you even know that there were hundreds of million Chinese people, Han and other minorities, being affected causing mayhem and suffer to the extend that many couldn't even have access to the very basics of food, water, not to mention electricity or other "luxuries" which you guys take for granted as basics.
NOT one single thread in ATS I could find talking about that disaster, and where were the Western media reporting of this disaster in China? Or the "human rights" group organizing concerts to collect money for saving and relieving?

They are selfish egomania. I remember in Florida's hurricane disaster. China Govern donated 5,100,000 dollars to US ,but in 2008 spring's Chinese snow disaster US showed their pity by 150,000 dollars. What a joke!

Originally posted by Phil J. Fry
Besides all "truths" and reports from both sides, the chinese just have to acknowledge one hard fact - their country has a very serious PR problem.

It won't matter, what is being posted here regarding the Dalia Lama - he will remain the humble, peaceful person he is in the "western" view, while China will always be seen as the aggressive oppressor. China wasn't, isn't and won't be able to change that, no matter how hard it is trying. Tibet is the underdog and the public will always be supportive of the smaller opponent, especially with a PR genius like the Dalai Lama heading them.
I don't know, if the chinese members here are able to see, how the DL is viewed by the majority of us westerners - he's on par with Gandhi, Mother Therese and i guess, even big old J himself. Ask the people, whom they consider to be the most peaceful person on this planet and i bet, that at least 75% of the western population will at least mention the Dalai Lama. Face this fact, China - you won't change that and the only possibility to get out of this mess without being labeled a member of the "axis of evil" will be in collaboration with him and not with calling him a criminal.
As said, facts won't matter and truth is subjective. The western public "truth" is that China is an evil, communist, oppressive nation while the Dalai Lama is a peaceful, humble, holy man.
While through military force, China will be able to put an end to the tibetan riots, it more and more feeds the notion for a boycott - not only on Beijing 2008, but on all chinese products.

You blind yourself with your grandmother's hand-written copies. God, forgive this ignorant person. He just want to easily compete 1/6 persons living in this planet with one chimeric word full of loopholes. Dream it. If China are evil ,their power can tear up the earth 100 times.

The previous post-bomber was a public service announcement by the kindly comrades in freedom-loving, democratic China.




[edit on 24-3-2008 by crudos]

Haven't been the whole way through this thread, however from the OP and subsequent posts get the gist. Do not forget people a few things....Tibet has ALWAYS been a dictatorship with the people living in servitude of a religious despot. This is a fact - end of story. You can not simply say, oh the fact that one man had ultimate say over the lives of all his people as a religious head of state, who kept his people in absolute poverty, but BECAUSE he was a Buddhist must have been benevolent ? It almost beggars belief that you can just fall hook line and sinker for this stuff.

The poster has a legitimate point. I still remember the first time I had this put to me, I was really shocked as I was totally of the opinion that Tibet was this totally cool place, a nirvana with the hippiest hipster at the helm. Yeah its tough to look at the reality of the situation, however there it is, Gods representative on earth who can rule his kingdom however he wants unchallenged. Yep, totally uncool.

Here is some more serious fodder.

I think most of you will be aware of Chinas growing power, Americas looming dollar crisis, along with its debt issues, Chinas emerging middle class will soon emergence to demand its own goods replacing the demand of the U.S. crippling the U.S. even further, hence the constant attempts of the U.S. to force China to "float" the Yuan.

Now consider the ambivalence the U.S. showed towards China's human rights record when things were going their way....but now that things are turning pear shaped .......!! Oh and lets really put the pressure on China with the Olympics around the corner...what would be fascinating is if the U.S. boycotted and no one cared......!

I hear you all jumping up and down about Tibet, a religious dictatorship, yet not a word, not a peep about the human rights abuses in Palestine, Genocide, a "new holocaust". Oh, that's not the issue as we support the Israeli atrocities.

Things are not as cut and dry as they appear - China may be doing the wrong thing by Tibet, but is Tibet doing the wrong thing by its people ? And are you simply being led on to this issue and away from other issues ?

Focus people, FOCUS !

Originally posted by crazyboy0

1.He is a slaveholder and tyrant of Tibet before 1949,when
most people in Tibet had governed by the cruel and dark serfdom rule.

2.He is actually a terrorist,although he has been advertising himself as a peace lover,even the second Gandhi .From 1959,he has launched terrorist attacks on Chinese government authorities more than 1000 times,and thousands of innocent people were killed.

3.He supports Aum Shinrikyo,one of a notorious terrorism religion in Japan.In 1995,members of AUM Shinrikyo released sarin gas on several lines of the Tokyo Subway.....However, as a "peace lover",Dalai has close ties to them.Even after 1995,Dalai still states categorically that what Aum Shinrikyo promoted accords with Buddhism,and the founder of Aum Shinrikyo is his best friend.

4.He is never just a Buddhist,he is actually a politician. What he concerns is never the interests of people in Tibet,but his own power enslaving them.He knows that his ambition wiil be never realized if Tibet is still a part of China.So he has to collude some anti_China forces and take the road of split hie motherland.

Poor man!

Well, this is pretty much the most offensive piece of propaganda I have seen put out by a private party (our government and media do much worse all the time).

What this person has written about the Dalai is a lie and Tibet is not part of China; China has invaded Tibet.

Whether this guy is just ignorant, a pre-China person or stouge, I have no idea but it's an example of threads that should be pulled.

Originally posted by audas
Haven't been the whole way through this thread, however from the OP and subsequent posts get the gist. Do not forget people a few things....Tibet has ALWAYS been a dictatorship with the people living in servitude of a religious despot. This is a fact - end of story. You can not simply say, oh the fact that one man had ultimate say over the lives of all his people as a religious head of state, who kept his people in absolute poverty, but BECAUSE he was a Buddhist must have been benevolent ? It almost beggars belief that you can just fall hook line and sinker for this stuff.

The region that is Tibet and surrounding countries has been ruled by despots for thousands of years, religious and secular or some combination. To make some ridiculous straw argument that the current DL is also a dictatorial despot is beyond the pale. Tibet, like all the other nations and people's around it have struggled to enter the modern times of democracy and freedom, no doubt about it. But then to defacto label the DL as some sort of dictator is just propaganda at it's most crass. To highlight that somehow only the people of Tibet are being oppressed, whether it be by China, Mongolia, The British, etc., smacks of desperation. Tibet is no nirvana, nor was it ever, just filled with normal people trying the best to get through the endless political games of the current despots, China, the previous despots, England and countless others who'd rather see their stamp of power on the region, than a democratic and free nation. Those who label Tenzin Gyatso as a dictator, pawn of the CIA or whatever else equally lame, should make an effort to read his books, listen to his speak or even talk to Tibetan monk should they get the chance before believing what is said on an internet forum. Should those with the courage to find the truth might make a trip to Deer Park, in Oregon Wisconsin and speak with actual Tibetian Buddhist monks and regular people who have emigrated here when China invaded.

reply to post by audas


For anyone to use the argument that Tibet was full of slaves and human rights violations before its liberation by communist china is rediculous. The human rights violations occuring in Tibet right now and throughout china are far worse than when Tibet was free of the PRC rule. Given the abuses inside china specificly the FalunGong your argument gives the rest of the world the presidence it needs to invade china and liberate its people.

Read a little history, start with Maos great leap forward, you'll see the brand of humanity he spread.

Originally posted by mrwupy

Originally posted by poisonmekare

Also I would like to point out that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I've held my tongue on this statement for a long time, but no more.

A terrorist is a terrorist, regardless of who thinks what about them. When you kill the innocent, when you destroy the homes of those just trying to survive, when you destroy lives, You are a terrorist.

Your motives be damned!

Terror is just an extreme form of politics, that still does not make it right. Regardless of your cause.

I'll be honest here. I have no problem with someone blowing up an army base, attacking a government building or fighting the powers they oppose.

When they kill the innocent though, they are terrorists and deserve to be slaughtered like the vermin they are.

There is a huge difference between fighting your enemy and slaughtering the innocent.

Yeah I agree. I think you grossly misunderstood what I was trying to say with my quote. You don't have to do anything wrong to be labelled a terrorist. All you have to do is stand strong for a cause and be an annoyance to the agenda of your enemy. Your people will say you are fighting for their freedom, and your enemies will say you are a terrorist. Hence, one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. How you are viewed depends on the agenda of the person labelling you.

Do I support killing innocent people, hell no! On that topic, my friend, we share the same values.

Originally posted by Witness2008
reply to post by audas

 

For anyone to use the argument that Tibet was full of slaves and human rights violations before its liberation by communist china is rediculous. The human rights violations occuring in Tibet right now and throughout china are far worse than when Tibet was free of the PRC rule. Given the abuses inside china specificly the FalunGong your argument gives the rest of the world the presidence it needs to invade china and liberate its people.

Read a little history, start with Maos great leap forward, you'll see the brand of humanity he spread.

You guys have some kind of preternatural disposition for bringing up Chinese history as if the government 50 years ago or even 20 years ago is the same as it is now.

Alot of countries that America is friends with now have equally as bad track records, as does America, for that matter.

Just because they have the same ruling party doesn't mean their leaders now have the same ideas and adhere to the same philosophies as their predecessors. If anything, their attemps to modernize their country, and so willingly accept so many aspects of Western culture as their own, demonstrates their committment to development in regards to both domestic and foreign affairs.

The world, it's people, and it's governments are all constanly evoloving and changing organisms and entities. To claim that the past, with it's different people, different leaders, different philosophies, creeds, and ideas is somehow an accurate measure of the here-and-now or the future is absurd.

reply to post by ikaruga

You guys have some kind of preternatural disposition for bringing up Chinese history as if the government 50 years ago or even 20 years ago is the same as it is now.

Cute. But this is happening right now, not 50 years ago, not 20 years ago, NOW.

1. Burning
2. Electric Shock
3. Sexual Abuse
4. Psychiatric & Drug Abuse
5. Force-feeding
6. Savage beatings
7. Freezing and Exposing
8. Water Dungeon
9. Forced Abortions
10. “Death Bed”
11. “Tiger Bench”
12. “Hell Confinement”
13. “Small Cage”
14. Forced to Jump from Tall Building
15. “Flying an Airplane“
16. “Squat“
17. “Handcuffed in a Painful Position”
18. “Tied up”
19. Sitting on “Triangle-ridged Iron Plank”
20. “Carrying a Sword on the Back”
21. “Chain”
22. “Tied to a Bed”
23. “Tortured under a Bed”
24. “Tied to Trees”
25. “Solitary Confinement”
26. “Rope Tying”
27. “Hanging over the Head”
28. “Hanging by Two Thumbs”
29. “Hanging Upside Down”
30. Hung Up for Extended Period of Time
31. “Dog Bite”
32. “Snake Bite”
33. “Cutting of Flesh”
34. “Impaling the Fingers and Toes with Bamboo Stick”
35. “Needle Piercing” and “Toe Smashing”
36. Cigarette Burn
37. The Rampant Spread of Scabies
38. Forced to Sit in a “Sewage Pot”
39. Garbage Stuffed into the Mouth
40. Phlegm Poured into the Mouth
41. Force-Feeding with Urine
42. Force-Feeding with Feces
43. Deprivation of Sleep
44. Restricting the Use of the Toilet
45. Prohibiting the Use of Sanitary Napkins
46. “Covering a Shed” or Suffocation

These are the actual torture methods used by the chinese police, taken from here
(warning, very graphic). Guess, the creativity here would even make the CIA blush. And this is just, what the chinese government is doing with it's own people.

Alot of countries that America is friends with now have equally as bad track records, as does America, for that matter.

Yup and there's a plethora of threads about "bad things done by friends of the US" on ATS, but this one is about the cruelties of China..


quoted from pityonu, sorry for the misunderstanding Ikaruga

If China are evil ,their power can tear up the earth 100 times.

And this is the funniest statement i've read for a while. The US military complex alone is about 10-12 times larger then the one of the paper tiger,while an allied force would wipe it's butt with China pretty quickly. Hell, few decades ago, China was nearly conquered by a small island nation and you're talking about tearing up the world ?
And economically, as soon as the factor "cheap productive labour" will be gone, the growths will hit a very solid wall. The few dozen poisoned product scandals of the last few years ( just a little list with the scandals january to july 2007 can be found here, just 55 in half a year ) results in more and more customers refusing to buy chinese products.
Is China evil ? No, in no way, i personally know as much likeable chinese people as i know chinese a-holes. The rage against China is not against its population, it's against the government ( and that's a point, where i whole heartily can say - just the same as with the US )

The movement for a boycott of the Olympics and chinese products is growing stronger day by day.

[edit on 26-3-2008 by Phil J. Fry]

reply to post by Phil J. Fry


I don't appreciate being quoted for things I didn't say. I am referring to the last quote in your reply to my statements. Thank you.

I can'open the link you put on ATS because it is blocked here. Most likely because it isn't true.

I have lived in China for years. I know people who work in the government. I know many police. In fact, I was interviewed on a tv show about how police in Northern China are preparing for the olympics by learning English.

I just don't believe these people are going out to torture and mame after we finish dinner and a few beers.

I know people who have been in Chinese prisons, and they have never mentioned anything like this. I know people who do business with Chinese prisons---i.e., they are using prison labor to manufacture various products much like America and many other countries do.

Originally posted by ikaruga
I can'open the link you put on ATS because it is blocked here. Most likely because it isn't true.

I like this line and wanted to highlight it.

Im afraid China's "Ministry of Information (Suppression)" does not block sites because they are not true, but rather because they put the government in a bad light.

reply to post by InSpiteOf


Is that so much worse than giving people a taste of the truth only to discredit anyone who believes it?

Either way, if those links refer to Fa Lun Gong or something, I sugggest you read more about the Fa Lun Gong.

It's just another typical new age, money making scam.

I respect the government's decision when it comes to keeping cults like Scientology and Fa Lun Gong out of their society.

Originally posted by ikaruga
Is that so much worse than giving people a taste of the truth only to discredit anyone who believes it?

I think the people should be given the option to choose what they believe is true or not. The freedom of information and freedom to determine if the information is valid; The freedom to make your own mind up.

It's just another typical new age, money making scam.

I respect the government's decision when it comes to keeping cults like Scientology and Fa Lun Gong out of their society.

I can understand your issue with money making scams and cults, but being labelled as such does not give the government the right to slaughter believers. Try the propagators of such "cults" on legitimate charges, allow them the chance to defend their position, and if found guilty jail them for whatever applicable period. But wonton slaughter and organ theft based on someones belief structure is just horrid.

reply to post by pityonu


You may want to research the relief amounts that the U.S donated to your country. the figure is far from the 150,000.00 you quoted to us dumb westerners.
www.chinadaily.com.cn...