Sally Kern, "Gay's are Infiltrating our City Council."

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Again, when two men have sex with each other, they emulate heterosexual sex. The same is for women.

Sorry to go off topic but I have a few questions.

What other kind of sex is there? What I mean is. When I masterbate, am I emulating heterosexual sex just because heterosexuals masterbate also?

Why not call it "sex" instead of "heterosexual sex"? Like heterosexuals have the monopoly on sexual encounters or something.

Guess what. Monkeys have sex also. Even oral sex. So should I call heterosexual oral sex 'monkey sex"? How about "dolphin sex"? Pick any kind of animal you want that has sex.

reply to post by Sublime620


yeah,you got a point,I guess I was being pedantic. There's has to be some control,slaggin off minority groups can't be tollerated.

Here ya go intrepid, just a small taste of the general publics opinion.

The latest New York Times/CBS News poll has found widespread support for an amendment to the United States Constitution to ban gay marriage. It also found unease about homosexual relations in general, making the issue a potentially divisive one for the Democrats and an opportunity for the Republicans in the 2004 election

query.nytimes.com...

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Shows like Will and Grace and Ellen were a big part of what marked the decline of our society.

So basicly,gay people are (at least part of) the downfall of society. My mother always told me I'll be good for something.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Here ya go intrepid, just a small taste of the general publics opinion.

Just another reason I'm putting up with all this snow, eh? The True North Strong and Free...

reply to post by Christian Voice


One poll. Big deal. Even more important:

US Public Opinion Polls

In 1948, about 90% of American Adults opposed interracial marriage when the Supreme Court of California legalized it, and California became the first state that allowed loving, committed interracial couples to marry.

It strikes me that you, or a previous family member may have agreed with that poll.

2000-FEB: U.S. data: A Harris Poll released in early 2000-FEB shows:

57% oppose marriage by a gay couple; 15% approve.
55% oppose marriage by a lesbian couple; 16% approve.

Opposition to same-sex marriage appears to be far below the level of opposition to marriage of mixed-race couples in 1967 when the U.S. Supreme Court declared the remaining 16 state miscegenation laws unconstitutional.

2000-MAR: California data: A series of polls were taken during late 2000-FEB by the Los Angeles Times and San Francisco Examiner. Another poll was taken by the Public Policy Institute of California during 2000-FEB. The polls asked the subject's opinion on Proposition 22 that would state that "Only a marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized." The proposition was accepted by the voters on 2000-MAR-7.

Group Favor Prop 22 Oppose Prop 22 No opinion
Overall results 55 to 57% ~38% ~7%

2003-APR: Massachusetts data: By a slim majority, most residents of the state favored allowing same-sex couples to marry.

Item In favor Opposed No answer
All ages and genders 50% 44% 6%
18 to 39 62 33 5
40 to 64 53 42 5
Over 65 21 69 10
Women 55 38 7
Men 45 50 5

The poll was taken by KRC Communications Research for Globe/WBZ. Margin of error: 5%

2003-MAY: Civil unions, and healthcare / Social Security survivor benefits: The Gallup Organization conducted a poll asking for public opinion on a law that would allow same-sex couples to form civil unions and receive some of the legal rights of married couples. The nation's adults are, for the first time, evenly divided:

Item % in favor % opposed
Civil union legislation 49% 49%

For the first time, the Gallup Organization sought the public's opinion about healthcare and Social Security for same-sex committed couples. The question was: "Do you think homosexual couples should or should not have the same legal rights as married heterosexual couples regarding healthcare benefits and Social Security survivor benefits?" American adults appear to be more strongly in favor of equal benefits for gays and lesbians than are in favor of civil unions: 6

Date Favor benefits Oppose benefits No opinion
2003-MAY 62% 35% 3%

You can read the rest. You posted one poll that happened to fit your ideals. Of course, this is for same sex marriage.

We are not talking about same sex marriage. We are talking about how you and this lady think that gays ruin this country. That they are somehow tied to crime and divorce rates.

Don't kid yourself into thinking most people agree with you, because you are wrong. Close to half may think marriage is too sacred to let gays into the club, but not quite as extreme, or dare I say crazy, as you.

Now, if you took to the streets advocating more help for the poor, better education for the poor. lower tax-rates, etc... you might see an effect on crime rates. If you took to the streets and tried to stop Vegas marriages, spousal abuse, and adultery by husbands and wives, you might see less divorces.

Instead of trying to scapegoat one group, why don't you actually do something to help people? A revolutionary idea that I'm sure Jesus would agree with.



[edit on 12-3-2008 by Sublime620]

First of all, a question:

Are her statements legally defined as 'hate speech' or 'free speech?' It's pretty important to consort with the laws before venturing farther. Once we figure this out:

If it is legally considered 'hate speech' then that would be a legal matter.

If it is legally considered 'free speech' then freedom is a double edged sword. She can voice her opinion through her statements while the public can voice their opinion through their votes.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Here ya go intrepid, just a small taste of the general publics opinion.

The latest New York Times/CBS News poll has found widespread support for an amendment to the United States Constitution to ban gay marriage. It also found unease about homosexual relations in general,

Where are you going with that, what's the point. That seems to me like support for the "other arguement" e.g that the gay community has lot of persecution. That's what we are saying...

I think I might be on your ignore list? You again completely overlook my contributions.

Anyways, I think we are deviating from the thread topic. Mods are given us reminders

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Shows like Will and Grace and Ellen were a big part of what marked the decline of our society.

Are you for real? Seriously, are you trolling? That's against the ToC.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
So basicly,gay people are (at least part of) the downfall of society.

My mother always told me I'll be good for something.

Excellent!

This anarchist gives you *humor*

[edit on 033131p://12u00 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Christian Voice
I could be friends with any one of you. I have a gay friend, I have a very dear friend who is not Christian, yet he's Hindu.

No, you would not be friends with me, I can guarantee you that. You would be forever trying to convert me from being a Pagan and I would resent that. Only one of us would come out alive, I think.

So you have one friend who is gay (how close are you BTW?i.e. how well to you know him?) and this makes you an expert on homosexuality?
You know, I grew up around gays, alot of them. We had a few in our high school and my mother's best friend was gay. Then I moved to San Francisco and became a flight attendant and that gave me alot more gay friends. I have talked extensively with them about being gay. You know what? They're all perfectly nice, normal people who just want to be left alone to live their lives peacefully. They are subject to all kinds of nut cases telling them how sinful they are, not letting them marry, they get beat up alot, and alot of other things that are pretty horrible. And yet, they have found a way to forgive, or at least live and let live, those who hurt them.
CV, why can't you do the same, just let them live their lives the way they see fit. I don't believe the Bible is anything more than a collection of mythology and history that has been perverted by so many translations and revisions, starting with the Nicean Council in the 4th century A.D. It isn't even cohesivse and it contradicts itself all the way thru. You telling me that THE BIBLE SAYS HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG so authoritatively has no effect on me. It isn't my book and I'm under no obligation to believe it or follow it. So don't use the Bible as a defense, it doesn't work. There is hardly anything in it we can call "solid evidence" or factual. It isn't a book that is used by the U.S. for legal instruction, either.

CV, you know the quote "What man has joined asunder, let no man come between?" You are doing exactly taht - 2 people who love each other and want to be share a life together, but you don't want them to. Think about that.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Hopefully it doesn't get drowned out by posts, but I tried to point out that even that poll, which is one poll that supports his opinion, it's still only about gay marriage.

We are not just talking about marriage on this thread. Both the lady we are discussing, and the "Christian Voice", said that gays are ruining this country.

Let's see if "the voice" can find an updated poll, from sometime in the past year or two, that shows most American's think gays are ruining the country.

I thought this was funny:

Will Gays Ruin the Country?

Top Ten Reasons to Keep Gay Marriage Illegal

01) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

02) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

03) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

04) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all like many of the principles on which this great country was founded; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

05) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of marriages like Britney Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.
4 weeks ago
Additional Details
4 weeks ago

06) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

07) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

08) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

09) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans.

I also liked the response from the yahoo employee or member:

You seem to think that those who are against marriage rights for homosexuals have rational, logical reasons for it. They don't. It's simply fear and ignorance.

P.S. Apparently 'Notobespoken' missed the ENTIRE point of your post and didn't realize you were making fun of those who are against gay marriage. Amazing he/she can even use a keyboard...

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by Sublime620


I don't think it's hate speech or free speech.

I think it's discrimination.

She's plucked out a 'group' and focussed on it with her personal opinions, which are discriminating.

Originally posted by Sublime620

Hopefully it doesn't get drowned out by posts, but I tried to point out that even that poll, which is one poll that supports his opinion, it's still only about gay marriage.

Well I read your post, and all your other ones in the thread thus far

I can't recall who pointed this out but... the fact that gay marriage is illegal should negate this notion right? Sillyness.

*editied to add:

Let's look at Hollywood divorce rates! Or perhaps the fact that Reality Television has shows on marriage and divorce. I am not suggesting these are the culprits to the 'rising' decline in divorces, I am just pointing out how absurd this anti-gay claim is!

Let's see if "the voice" can find an updated poll, from sometime in the past year or two, that shows most American's think gays are ruining the country.

Indeed. Something recent and not a specific demographic.

[edit on 033131p://12u00 by Lucid Lunacy]

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Again quazga, can you turn your sperm off and on? No. Whenever a man has an orgasm, he ejaculates sperm. That would insinuate that his body is doing what it was designed for, and that is releasing REPRODUCTIVE fluid.
A woman'e body releases an egg roughly once a month. Her body is doing what it is supposed to do which is releasing REPRODUCTIVE eggs. A man's parts are not made for another man. Nor are a woman's for another woman. When you need a screw tightened or loosened, do you use another screw? No you use a screw driver. They fit each other.
Again, when two men have sex with each other, they emulate heterosexual sex. The same is for women. It seems very clear to me. If it doesn't to you, that's fine. You believe what you want. I was asked and there's my answer.

CVoice... the question I asked you was that since Bonobos use sex for easing tensions between tribes, doesn't that point to the fact that there are multiple benefits to sex besides simple reproduction?

This isn't about belief at all, this is about actual data. My question for you is about what you claim to be the "Intended Purpose of Sex". You have answerd that your belief comes from simply your own perspective on it.

Don't you believe it should also take into consideration data such as the Bonobos?

Here is some data to this effect. Once again, I'm not talking personal beliefs, just what we observe in the world around us...

Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. With the exception of a pair of Congoese gorillas caught in the act, Bonobos were thought to be the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex. However more recently Gorillas have been observed to engage in face-to-face sex. In scientific literature, the female-female sex is often referred to as GG rubbing or genital-genital rubbing, while male-male sex is sometimes referred to as penis fencing.

Doesn't this plainly show that there are more than reproductive purposes to sex?

reply to post by Quazga


Oh oh oh, can I answer for him/her?

This is how predictable the answer is:

They are just perverts. They don't count for this discussion because that is not what sex is supposed to be. They are perverts, and we are talking about normal, natural human sex.

i.e. You're right, but it doesn't fit my premise so I will use a strawman to attack them instead of actually looking at the evidence objectively.

Hey If monkeys do it - it's natural right? Since we're just animals let's make it legal to do in public.




[edit on 3/12/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Did you just post a video of a monkey fondling itself? What purpose did that serve exactly? Shock and awe?

Not sure if you actually made a point there. And no one is saying copy the monkey, just merely refuting the point that these things don't occur in nature.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by Sublime620


The logic in this thread is if monkeys do it then it's natural.

My point is simple. Natural doesn't equal socially acceptable.

I'm out...

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Okay, so first it was, "It's not natural".

No now we've gotten acceptance that it is natural do some of these sexual things, but it's not "socially acceptable".

Sex is generally not "socially acceptable" anyway. That's why we do it behind closed doors and in privacy.

So I guess you just slipped up.