No Health Insurance? Face Fines!

wouldn't it be great if just 1/4th of the money that's going to the "war" in iraq could be appointed to health care and schools? i bet everyone in the USA could have free health care on 1/4th of that budget alone...

reply to post by zooplancton

wouldn't it be great if just 1/4th of the money that's going to the "war" in iraq could be appointed to health care and schools? i bet everyone in the USA could have free health care on 1/4th of that budget alone...

Good idea, but unfortunately the numbers don't add up. If we ONLY look at the roughly 47,000,000 Americans that are uninsured today, at a rough cost of $1,000 per month per person, we come to a figure of $564,000,000,000.00 per year. That, of course, assumes that we not even consider whether those that are insured should be paid for, as most of them are either directly paying for health insurance now(or their employers are-fully or partially). If the government were to provide universal health to all citizens, the cost, based on a population of 300,000,000 would be $3.6 trillion,Almost a Trillion Dollars more than the entire US budget for 2008.

It would be a start, however, but a VERY small start.

I vote to pass a law that anyone who dosen't pay their mandatory health premiums should be waterboarded and tortured until they require hospitalization.

Then they'll realize how important health insurance is.

reply to post by ColdWater


That's a beautiful mix of extreme liberalism and conservatism. Ying and yang.

Bravo.

reply to post by bigbert81

You are soooo wrong!


Republican Mitt Rumney passed this into law and screwing us folks before he took off on his venture to try to become president!

Where do you get your information? You really should check before you make such statements.

Hillary may be a devil herself, i'm not touching that, but good old Mitt is responsible for the folks in Massachusetts being down and out. Again, this affects not the low class who have Mass Health, but the MIDDLE CLASS.

I'm in line for the government handout for this one. For the first time in my life and in manys lifes here, people are reaching for government handouts and that is precisely why they did it. With the price of gas, heating oil, food, and everything else, no one can afford insurance.

To those of you who like this idea, you're going to pay for my medical bills.
Thanks!
The government wants us on our knees begging for mercy so that we can in turn ask them for help. Well, the folks in Massachusetts have ALL turned to the government for health aide. We are all going to please them and have them pay or pretend to pay for our healthcare. We are obedient here.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by dgtempe]

I cannot afford the insurance that my company offers, and the coverage svcks anyway. I don't know where to turn about this, all the independant agencies around here that offer plans are also too expensive. I am lucky though to live in a county where a volunteer program puts you in touch with drug companies (they do all the work) who cover all my prescriptions. We also have a program that helps those who work but their compay does not offer insurance. Then a third program for those who are not eligible for the other two programs, and I love the name of this one, they call it the 'We Care' program! Without these though I don't know how 100's of citizens here would achieve health care.

Space, you are lucky.

See, some may argue that we also have tons of programs that you can join and pay less. What they dont tell you is that the middle class hardly ever "qualifies" for anything.
What? You made $10,000? Sorry, you must have made $9,900 or less for a family of 5, sorry we cant help you! (This is just an example, but a good one)

You see? The same with every government sponsored aid. If you're homeless, and already a part of the system, with food stamps, welfare, Social Security, you can qualify for insurance and other benefits a hell of a lot easier than if you WORK at all.

Go figure.

Originally posted by Tinhatman
More Americans live at or near the Poverty line than above it.

Incorrect.

As of 2007, 7 out of 8 Americans lived above the poverty line.
Source

Not a great number admittedly, but certainly a vast majority of Americans are not living in poverty.

[edit on 3/10/2008 by eaglewingz]

Eagle, the standards are

pretty low, dont you think?

I have not had insurance since I was 14 years old. I have not EVER needed to be hospitalized for any reason since that time. I have has to visit a doctor less than ten times since I was 14, in fact probably less than 7. The doctor, NOT the hospital.

I know I went once around 15, and my parents paid the doctor for me that time. But ever since I have been working at 16, I have always paid my ow doctor bill.

the real cure to this health insurance crisis is to mandate healthy living. I started drinking at 16 and stopped at 17. I was just too disgusted with what I became after I quit highschool. I smoked tobacco a few times between the ages of 9 and 12, smoked for abouth a total of three months between the ages of fifteen and 17. Never touched tobacco again.

If you want to bring down your health care costs, drop alcohol and topbacco from your habit permanently. than do your best to excercixse daily. I gaurantee your healthcare cost will be significantly reduced in the coming years to the point you wont see the need for health insurance like me.

I dont want health insurance. I already pay some kind of medical duty out of every paycheck to the government. If I require treatment as a result of an extreme injury, which is unlikely as I dont expose myself to much danger, than I am sure I have paid my fair share into this medical thing that I deserve to be treated at the ER. I'll arrange payment plan if the amount is fair.

Me and baby mama just make sure our son is insured is all. Otherwise, I dont need it for myself. If I am seriously sick I will pay my local doctor to diagnose and treat me. If I pay a doctor once a year (its really like once every other year) I save thousands in unnecesarry costs.

Maybe if the insurance industry did some kind of refund program for those who stayed healthy and did not need the coverage at years end, I would consider it. After all their primary use of the money is to re-ivest in some kindof pool accoutns and recieve dividends. Give me a refund for being healthy, and I will pay your "chance" tax. Otherwise get out of my way.

[edit on 3/10/2008 by DYepes]

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


Who pays $1,000 per person per month for insurance may I ask?

I had a great plan at a job that was $40/month for a single person that included dental, top coverage and included a $100,000 life insurance policy. So $800/year x 300,000,000 Americans = 240,000,000,000 (240 billion) a year to cover everyone. The Iraq war cost us a safe estimate of 12 billion a month, 144,000,000,000. Of course family plans end up being cheaper per person, so for the cost of the war, we could insure every single American, including the ones that have great coverage and the ones living on the street in a tent working 2 jobs who cannot afford it.

I think you need to use realistic figures before making statements like that. $1000 a month per person :roflmao:


If doctors did it for their passion of caring for humanity, then 100k a year would be more than enough money to make, consider most doctors make way more than that, capping their salary would solve half the cost. Not letting them charge a grand a night for a room would help too.

The nurses and doctors I know say that uninsured poor people are why costs have risen, and they don't blame them. Since they can't afford health care, on of two things happens. They either go to the emergency room for little things since they cannot be denied, and run up a bill they will never be able to pay back ... or they forego checkups because they can't afford them, get seriously ill and go to the emergency room and run up a bill they can't pay, because they are broke and making 10 grand a year, barely paying bills, and now they are sick, are not making even that measly pay check.

These people I know also have no problem with making 100k a year, the rest is for spoils and splurging.


So, let us say a modest $20/month/person x 300 million. That is only 6 billion a month, half the cost of the Iraq war ... though, that isn't free money ... so what we must do is get back to the years 1999 and 2000 when we were paying 360 billion dollars off of our national debt instead of increasing it. So, 72 billion of that would go to 'free' national health care. That would still leave more than a trillion a decade being paid off without further reducing government spending wastes. In a century we would have a national savings account in the trillions instead of a national debt in the trillions.

Too bad that is in the past and we have pseudo-conservatives that spend money and inflate the government. Even if you don't like Bill Clinton, at least he paid off over half a trillion off of our national debt before he left office. With that said, I don't like Hilary nor her fascism and control.

People who never smoke or drink and jog every day also drop dead, or fall ill.
Its nice to be fit and try to avoid insurance, however we're talking about Massachusetts, and we have no choice here. Healthy or otherwise.

reply to post by eaglewingz


I suppose if you go by government standards when it comes to defining 'poverty' you may be living above their standard, however I know a heck of a lot of people working and struggling to meet their monthly bills and feed themselves, nothing is left for insurance, only enough to meet basic needs. They are essentially living in poverty, but they have a roof over their heads and some food for the table. I cannot believe that the current total of families living below the poverty guidlines is only 12%, that has to be old data. Usually people go in and out of poverty, as their situations improve, but latey more and more families are unable to improve the situation, because they are making more money but it takes so much more to make ends meet. I bust my butt, work 3rd shift 5-6 nights a week, my hubby too, and we don't have any children, and still struggle to meet our needs. Nothing is left for entertainment anymore, we can barely fit our basic needs into the equasion. Just working to pay the bills, yet we are ineligible for any government assitance program because we 'make too much', and don't have children in the home. Makes me feel like chopped liver.

It would be so much simpler and cheaper if the government just assessed a flat tax to everyone regardless of their income, and gave them medical coverage from the cradle to the grave like most progressive countries do. Thinking that we pay less taxes than those countries with socialized medicine is a delusion. We get taxed for everything we do with the exception of breathing.

There would be no 46,000,000 uninsured people under a system like this. Most Americans without insurance now simply don't go for treatment when they're sick. They ride out their illness as best they can. The only ones that do abuse the system are the teaming masses of illegals that have paid nothing into the system to start with.

When the government must pay the bills as they do in Medicaid payments, there are limits placed on the amount a doctor, hospital, or pharmacy can charge for their services or meds. They get only what the government believes is areasonable amount for their services. There might not be as many filthy rich doctors, pharmacists, or hospitals that way, but who cares? They don't give a heck about us, so why shed any tears for them? If you're in the healthcare or insurance business, I'm sure you believe otherwise. This is my take on the problem. You're welcome to agree or disagree as you like.





[edit on 3/10/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by ColdWater


Hey, we need more cowbell! LOL! I am a huge SNL fan, been watching it for so many years! The cowbell sketch is a classic! Love it!

I do not know about insurance but it's nice to have universal health care.
England has it, Canada has it, Frace has it and it works just fine.I think it would be time for the US to try it at least and see how it go's for you guys.

Universal health care means taking care of each other, it means some ones pays for you and you pay for some one.
Universal health care also cost less because eveyone is participating, while not every one will get sick, some will, by eveyone giving in it's covered.
Now some of you might insist that this is crap, but think of it ?what does the insurance company do with the money?
It's the same thing only there is no middle man, it's only you and the doctor.
Crap is when your doctor can't fix you up because the insurance company says so.

reply to post by eaglewingz


How far above the poverty line are those 7 of 8 people?
Again, most people in America live at or NEAR the poverty line.
In many cases the people who live above the poverty line by a small but significant proprtion also happen to live in areas with much higher costs of living and the Federal definition of poverty is not adjusted for geographic location. So even though someone in Central Florida may be making a median income of $32,000/year but the median House is $250,000 and the apartments are $1000. Add in some dependents and you are boned.

Do not get me wrong, I think a good portion of the poor are poor for lack of trying. I worked two 30+ hour a week jobs for 3 years and went to school part time to get into a position of comfort. Now I can afford all the tin foil I need.

It's more about class warfare than anything. Just like the income tax, when it was passed in 1913 only th every rich were going to pay and the plebes were in the most part for it.

"Make the rich pay, hoorah!!!" Now the middle class bears the yoke of the tyrrany as well and the common prol sings songs and drinks beer while the guy working two jobs to make ends meet gets RAPED in taxes and the actual wealthy folks find there way out.

reply to post by pepsi78


Crap is when you wait 3 years in England just for a consult and than die in the meantime. Crap is when you choose to smoke and are denied Universal Care and also denied the right to pay for it yourself if you can afford it because somehow that would be taking advantage of the system.
Crap is when you can't afford to go see a Doctor in the US because the Insurance companies in Collusion with a Fascist Government have made healthcare SOOOO expensive that you either participate in managed care that benefits the wealthy politicians and insurance companies OR you die of a simple tooth infection.

reply to post by Tinhatman
[more

I just want to say that I think the UK healthcare system is great. Yes, there are some problems but people don't die because they couldn't afford to go to the doctor. The three year waiting lists are an urban myth about UK's health care system.

Growing up in the states I can clearly remember times when my parents couldn't affod health care for us kids. In the UK that doesn't happen.

I also lived in Switzerland for three years and there it is mandated by the state that you have insurence. It's not something you get through your employer and the state doesn't pay for it, unless you can't afford it, then the states pays insurence for you - No special programs for the poor.

The healthcare system in the US might be shiny - But people die because they can't get basic care, I find that very sad.

reply to post by Merigold


The healthcare system in the US is crap actually.

Switzerland works I think because of the rather small homogenized population and the national identity of the People. Norway and Scandinavia are perfect examples as well. I am against Universal healthcare in principle, taking away someones freewill or choice is a crime IMHO. I am not saying that it does not function in some cases.

I also am currently compiling a list of folks who have either been refused service and /or died due to refusal of the NHS to treat in a timely manner. I am at work though so it might not show up till tonight. It is not all urban legend/myths.

No one dies in the US for lack of basic care. That is a myth. If anyone, citizen or not, walks into a US emergency room they will be kept alive to the best of the abilities of the staff barring any needed exotic treatments, ie. transplants, artificila bits and pieces, etc.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by Tinhatman]