Police Illegally Seizing DNA from Drivers

Have the cops down there submitted to DNA testing? Maybe the serial killer is a cop. It wouldn't be the first time. I'll tell you-- most cops I know would not submit to DNA testing for the very same reason most patriotic Americans would not submit. That request would be met with more than righteous indignation at being treated like a criminal.

Recent statistics estimate there are at least two, probably more, serial killers operating in every major U.S. city. Do we want to see these DNA checkpoints in every U.S. town and city?

Where exactly do we hold the line?

Originally posted by biggie smalls
reply to post by benign.psychosis

 

You seem to love the power trip our politicians and police are on.

I think you should join up with them.

Maybe then you'll see things for how they really are.

Am I a criminal because I don't want anyone invading my privacy?

Yeah...

*You* will never see things for how they really are when you are stuck in the illusions of "power trip" and "privacy".

5 neighbors live in a row, one of them is a serial killer who has a dead body in the bathtub and a video of him raping the corpse.

The police go to every house and ask if they can take a look inside. All 5 of them say, "No, it's an invasion of privacy."

Now, the 4 people who were innocent were not protecting themselves from anything - they were innocent and were not breaking the law. The police would find nothing in their houses. The people knew this, but they merely wanted their own, selfish privacy.

Because of their selfish attitudes and screams of control, all they did was work together to protect the serial killer and his privacy, and didn't even realize it - not they would care anyway.. even serial killers deserve privacy. If all 4 of them would have let their houses be searched, then it would have been known that the killer was most probably, based on leads and evidence, in the fifth house.

The cops greatly suspect that one of these 5 houses is the home of a serial killer. They've been on the case for a while and have found many leads. They go a judge and request a warrant for all 5 houses, and they get it.

They goto house number 1, search the house - all the while the owner is upset and yelling INVASION OF PRIVACY.

They repeat this at house number 2, 3, and 4. The owners here do the same thing. They threaten to have the cops' jobs, and they tell them they will take them to court. They start acting up and one guy even gets arrested for acting violent and throwing objects near a cop. He later complains of police brutality. The story is posted on INFOWARS and NWOREPORT in all of its glorious bias.

Then they get to house number 5, where they capture the killer.

Now the selfish other 4 homeowners are saying, "Why'd you check MY HOUSE? I was innocent and I've proven it! I wasn't the serial killer! Why didn't you go to his house first! This was a complete invasion of *MY* privacy!"

The police say "Thank you for your cooperation. We've captured the killer and we are sorry for any inconvenience we've cause you. Thank you for helping out your community (even though you didn't want to because you are a selfish A-hole)"

But, the homeowners still aren't happy. They've helped capture a killer, but don't realize it because they are blinded by an ideal privacy. They come on ATS and cry about it, and hear a story about mind reading technology. They say "Invasion of privacy! No one is reading my mind! I can see BAD things coming from this!!"

All the while, they don't ever realize that it would have saved their houses from a search, reserved their personal privacy, and swiftly captured the killer.

They don't care at all. All they want is absolute privacy, for everyone.

They don't realize that the line is drawn when they being to cooperate with the authorities. It is completely up to the people.

Until then, more invasive measures will be put in place.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by benign.psychosis]

Well then, by all means-- submit yourself and your family to a thorough search of your home every single day for the rest of your life because there will always be criminals.

Originally posted by kattraxx
Well then, by all means-- submit yourself and your family to a thorough search of your home every single day for the rest of your life because there will always be criminals.

Is that what it comes down to for you? "Every single day for the rest of your life?"

Sometimes I am shocked at how irrational people here on ATS can be.

Hey, if you think like that: You better not drive anymore, you might get pulled over every single day for the rest of your life because your vehicle matches the description of one of a thousand crimes.

*The cops greatly suspect that one of these 5 houses is the home of a serial killer. They've been on the case for a while and have found many leads. They go a judge and request a warrant for all 5 houses, and they get it.


[edit on 12-2-2008 by benign.psychosis]


you are living in a dream world. The paragraph above is TOTALLY illogical. NO cop can go to a judge and get warrants for five houses!!!Are you kidding me? If the cops had evidence that was definite enough for a warrant, they would damned well know what house it applied to!!

You amaze me, you set up an impossible scenario as if it could actually happen. To get a warrant, a cop must have..pay attention now: ARTICULABLE evidence that would lead a reasonable person to believe that what they seek is there. They CANNOT simply say: Well, we have narrowed it down; rather than INVESTIGATE and build a case against a suspect, we will just toss all five houses in case one of them is it". Thats ludicrous.

So, you lose again. The killer will never give consent, so unless the cop's have enough evidence to pinpoint the location, no warrant is possible. Warrants are SPECIFIC..very specicif, NEVER GENERAL. You are decsribing a GENERAL warrant, and they are forbidden by the constitution.

Your whole scenario is worthless; it cannot happen. Why not face it? If the cop's can FORCE us to prove our innocence, then the entire systrem has been turned around. The burden of proof is on THEM..not US! You need a good course on the law and the constitution before you drift off into la la land with these nonsense examples.

Cop's will never ever get a warrant because of their ' hunches ', and only a hunch could be so vaugue that they do not even know the location. What is all five homes were empty and innocent and they' guessed '
wrong? Ok to just toss the people and try again sopmewhere else if they figured wrong? What a joke. LOGIC and LAW need to get into your frame of thinking and not some world where the good guys always wins and the end justifies the means. Thats not this world, thank God.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Originally posted by kattraxx
Well then, by all means-- submit yourself and your family to a thorough search of your home every single day for the rest of your life because there will always be criminals.

Is that what it comes down to for you? "Every single day for the rest of your life?"

Sometimes I am shocked at how irrational people here on ATS can be.

Hey, if you think like that: You better not drive anymore, you might get pulled over every single day for the rest of your life because your vehicle matches the description of one of a thousand crimes.

Exactly. Where will you personally hold the line? I was merely proving the fallacy of your reasoning by taking it to its logical extreme. One warrantless police search of your home is okay, but where do you draw the line once you've allowed them to step over it? There will always be criminals, no? How many searches of your home, say a month, are you willing to submit to?

reply to post by benign.psychosis


what a very strange and delightful world you must live in. I wish I could come for a visit, but I'm afraid we live in different dimensions.

reply to post by kattraxx


To provide "public safety and security" all citizens will submit their homes and persons to a daily search.

Failure to submit to a legal search and seizure will result in immediate termination and/or imprisonment.

1984 all over again...

How do you not see this as a bad thing?

DNA first, next your life.

reply to post by biggie smalls


ironically, this particular subject doesn't affect me so much, seeing how my DNA is already in the FBI database thanks to some previous scuffs in my history. I'd still object to it though, out of principle alone.

They've got my fingerprints due to youthful indiscretions.

Thankfully, these incidents predated the modern routine collection of DNA samples of even those simply under arrest.

However, I've donated blood so I suppose my DNA is on record somewhere.

Those who are mouthpieces for the ideologies of the Fascist Overlords can willingly submit their DNA to prove their compliance with the party line, but I'll invoke my right as a patriotic supporter of the US Constitution to refuse to submit to their intimidation and lies.

Call it what you like, even selfish if you want, but it's my duty as a law abiding citizen of the United States to protect our collective rights under the Constitution.

And there's nothing unreasonable about that.

Originally posted by kattraxx

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Originally posted by kattraxx
Well then, by all means-- submit yourself and your family to a thorough search of your home every single day for the rest of your life because there will always be criminals.

Is that what it comes down to for you? "Every single day for the rest of your life?"

Sometimes I am shocked at how irrational people here on ATS can be.

Hey, if you think like that: You better not drive anymore, you might get pulled over every single day for the rest of your life because your vehicle matches the description of one of a thousand crimes.

Exactly. Where will you personally hold the line? I was merely proving the fallacy of your reasoning by taking it to its logical extreme. One warrantless police search of your home is okay, but where do you draw the line once you've allowed them to step over it? There will always be criminals, no? How many searches of your home, say a month, are you willing to submit to?

You can't paint it however you want, but if you look at the reality, the truth is staring right at you.

Refusal to cooperate based on some type of ideology of privacy will only bring more intrusive measures that you will continue to oppose - which will only bring once again more intrusive measures. The process is well underway, and began when people started to plead the fifth and refuse to speak to police officers or come forward with information about crimes.

It is the peoples' fault. There is no way around it. The causal events of yesterday have put us right where we are today, and you can blame it on nothing more than adherence to selfish ideology. The religion of freedom. The religion of privacy. None of it is logical in the functioning of an efficient society.

The sad truth is that you and your kind bring it on to yourself. It's not the police - it's you.

[edit on 12-2-2008 by benign.psychosis]

Originally posted by scientist
reply to post by benign.psychosis

 

what a very strange and delightful world you must live in. I wish I could come for a visit, but I'm afraid we live in different dimensions.

You mean reality? You mean the observation of what is happening to the world right now, as people preach the ideology of a perfect circle of freedom for no reason other then griping about society?

I know, it's not that fun. It isn't full of wishful thinking and ideology. It's life.

... and sadly: This had turned into a forum where people moan, complain, gripe, and shout conspiracy, and argue about what is going on. It's a place where people can't seem to understand the difference between "what is" and what they think the world "should be".

If someone points out "what is" they get attacked by the "what should be'ers"

P.S Don't trust any cop, ever. They are all bad, they want your DNA and want to frame in any possible way.

reply to post by eyewitness86


It's obvious that the entire point of that went right over your head. Typical.

Anywho, you can continue to shout conspiracy when it is mandatory to submit your DNA under the next administration - or maybe the one after that. You can shout constitution when the NAU comes to fruition and the expired concept of national sovereignty is thrown away. You can shout control when police pull you over and cuff you because you fit the description of a child molester.

Just remember this: It will all fall on deaf ears. All of your efforts are in vain.

If you, the people, knew how to take care of yourselves, then we would not be in the situation that we are right now.

Forget privacy vs. control.

It's all about responsibility vs. control.

You as a people don't have the former, so you *will* have the latter.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Originally posted by scientist
reply to post by benign.psychosis

 

what a very strange and delightful world you must live in. I wish I could come for a visit, but I'm afraid we live in different dimensions.

You mean reality?

kinda. more specifically, I mean your reality.

You mean the observation of what is happening to the world right now, as people preach the ideology of a perfect circle of freedom for no reason other then griping about society?

sure, why not. I havent really met anyone to this day that preaches a perfect anything. Utopianism is an idealogical goal, not a reality.

This had turned into a forum where people moan, complain, gripe, and shout conspiracy, and argue about what is going on.

did you think you were at the ESPN forums? What a shock it must have been when you realized you were actually at ATS, the self-proclaimed "Conspiracy related discusion" website! (p.s. ATS mods, you may want to check the spelling on the description of the site being indexed by Google... lol)

It's a place where people can't seem to understand the difference between "what is" and what they think the world "should be".

and again, we are back to your reality, not objective reality. apparently in your world, "people" can't seem to do anything right, except you (and I guess others that agree with you?). Seems like you are the one dealing out the "shoulds and whats."

P.S Don't trust any cop, ever. They are all bad, they want your DNA and want to frame in any possible way. :lol

ah, good old hyperbole. when your logic runs out, this is always a safe bet. Unfortunately, I do not fall for it - I'll just call it as I see it. This is a cop out, just like your "don't worry if you don't have anything to hide" mentality is a complete cop out.

Originally posted by scientist
ah, good old hyperbole. when your logic runs out, this is always a safe bet. Unfortunately, I do not fall for it - I'll just call it as I see it. This is a cop out, just like your "don't worry if you don't have anything to hide" mentality is a complete cop out.

You see, I even point an after it to denote the mocking tone, but you still felt the need to point it out as if it were a case of one oneupmanship that somehow went over my head.

"don't worry if you don't have anything to hide"

No, it's more like "worry if you have something to hide." This would be an example of "what is" and not "what should be". This is how the world operates, as we can not read minds.

Criminals have actions that must be hidden if they are to remain free. They will worry when it comes time to reveal anything that they wish to keep private.

So too will anyone who is suspect and wishes to maintain their privacy. This need for privacy under investigation is always suspect.

This is what is, and practicality will beat ideology any day. The risk comes down to the invasion of privacy vs. the protection of society.

We all know which one wins out.

reply to post by benign.psychosis


If you want to live in a country where the police have everything under control, drive down to Miami and take a left across the water.

I agree that unless we stand up now and take our country back there will be no more constitutional rights to insist upon.

I pity the small minds that salivate when dreaming of "their" day of power and control over their betters. Their kind of utopian society will collapse of it's own ineptitude. It can only be realized by cowardly tyrants who lust for a chance to bully others into a submission of their petty will. Such a society will suck the life and creativity out of humanity and, in the end, they will be rulers of an ash heap. It CAN'T work but unfortunately, such authoritarian types can do a lot of damage to the rest of freedom-loving peoples while implementing their social experiment.

I know that there are cops on ATS who do not share the view that everyone but them is a criminal and needs to submit to "the state" for any whim it concocts to "catch criminals". I'd like to hear their take on collecting DNA at random vehicle stops on the pretext of catching a serial killer.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

The risk comes down to the invasion of privacy vs. the protection of society.

We all know which one wins out.

I suggest without privacy you have no society worth protecting.

Yes, we did win out when we created the United States of America. Apparently most everyone else in this thread wish to continue the values that made the U.S. (and many other countries) great. We love freedom, liberty, privacy & peace and we will put our lives on the line and extinguish any who oppose us again, if that becomes necessary.

We will not cower to your ideals of all guilty until proven innocent. In your perfect world every time there is a crime we will all get dragged to jail until we prove our innocents. We put up with that crap before the US was created and we wont put up with the crap ever again.

Most of us would rather die than to live in your authoritarian utopia, and as long we remain stronger than your kind we will not submit to your prison planet nightmare.



[edit on 12-2-2008 by verylowfrequency]

Originally posted by verylowfrequency

I suggest without privacy you have no society worth protecting.

Yes, we did win

out when we created the United States of America. Apparently most everyone else in this thread wish to continue the values that made the U.S. great.

Hah. Spare me with the creation of the United States. It involved so much argument, propaganda, and the concession of rights and liberty, centered around conspiracy, that it is no different than half the other countries in the world. I might add that the country was founded by an illegal act of war, but illegal wars are only bad when Bush is involved.

We will not cower to your ideals of all guilty until proven innocent. In your perfect world every time there is a crime well all get dragged to jail until we prove our innocents. We put up with that crap before the US was created and we wont put up with the crap ever again.

Don't worry. In 20 years when everyone has their chips and DNA/biometric information in centralized databases, with scanners on every corner, you won't need to be taken to jail. The offender will be identified right away.

Most of us would rather die than to live in your authoritarian utopia, and as long we remain stronger than your kind we will not submit to your prison planet nightmare.

Well then, I can only respectfully suggest that you carry out whatever future plans you have.

reply to post by benign.psychosis


There's no point in a discussion with anyone who refers to our blood-bought rights as Americans as "ideology of privacy" and "religion of freedom".

Whatever.

Fini.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Spare me with the creation of the United States.

Awe, now we see where your coming from. You do not love the US as we do, & thus you wish to destroy the ideals of those who created it and those of us who cherish it. Now were getting a better picture.

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Don't worry. In 20 years when everyone has their chips and DNA/biometric information in centralized databases, with scanners on every corner, you won't need to be taken to jail. The offender will be identified right away.

20 years, nope. Maybe after all of us natural non-databased free's die off everyone might be in that database. So, if you were born giving up your DNA could be seen as a good control measure in order to prevent certain crimes knowing that you can't get away with them.

The Caveat would be that we would by then know certain genes made for certain skills, or certain bad behaviors or diseases - thus people would begin to be classified & separated into different classes at birth regardless of financial status. Those with better DNA would be separated from their families & put on the fast track to be in the leaders group or killed off right away so they don't take over.

So, even then we would have people opposing being in the database, because those without any good genes - would go to lesser schools because we would know ahead of time that they only have the brain power for a janitor, jailer, plumber or housecleaner. Those with superior physical attributes along with fast thinking brains would go to the professional sports training schools or military fighting academy's etc.

Or maybe we would decide to kill those ones our society doesn't need or deemed flawed humans before they are even born.

On second thought Nope - I don't want your perfect world - The flaws in our imperfect world are what makes it interesting & worth living for. It is the fight of living we live for & not the perfection of death at the end.


[edit on 12-2-2008 by verylowfrequency]