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Police Illegally Seizing DNA from Drivers

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posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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Police Swabbing Mouths During Traffic Stops In Serial Killer Hunt


www.local6.com

Police officers in Daytona Beach are swabbing the mouths of persons of interests during traffic stops with special DNA kits in the hunt for an elusive serial killer, sources close to the investigation told Local 6.
(visit the link for the full news article)



[edit on 2/7/2008 by biggie smalls]




posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 12:26 PM
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"We're just doing this for your own safety. Carry on, nothing to see here."

"Wait, why am I donating DNA to the police?"

"I said its for your own good, so carry on before I shoot you."

"Yes officer. Please sir, may I have some more."

How convenient, they're on the lookout for a serial killer.

Breach of privacy and unconstitutional SEARCH AND SEIZURE much?

You **SNIP** cops sicken me. Have you ever heard of the Constitution that you swore to uphold in the first place? And the Bill of Rights?

Probably not, they aren't educating you in the police academy anymore. All you need now is that license to kill and you're alllll set.

Kill those terrorists, er I mean, criminals. That's another branch of the government.



EDIT: I figured a more catchy title was necessary


www.local6.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

[edit on 2/7/2008 by biggie smalls]

Mod Edit: Profanity/Circumvention Of Censors – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 7-2-2008 by Crakeur]



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 01:00 PM
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It never ceases to amaze me what rights people willingly give up when they are in fear. In my opinion, this is the ultimate violation of ones privacy.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:32 PM
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I see most of those quotes came from the perspective of your own entity.

They *are* protecting and upholding the constitution. They are also upholding the law and trying to get a serial killer off the streets.



It never ceases to amaze me what rights people willingly give up when they are in fear. In my opinion, this is the ultimate violation of ones privacy.


ATS never ceases to amaze me. They are trying to catch a serial killer, not harvest DNA - even though that would be a good idea and solve crimes faster.

This isn't as much about the DNA as it is about criminal psychology. The police know damn well that the serial killer will not submit to the DNA test.. hell, he'll probably turn around, run, shoot or whatever.

Of course, that's the same thing someone with paranoid delusions would do, or at least, they would sit there and be a selfish schmuck while the police are trying to do their jobs. If you put up too much of a fight over something is insubstantial as a DNA swab, then of course you would be suspect, and the police would have probably cause to taser your socially defiant, uncaring for the safety of the community, making a mountain out of a molehill, wasting time while a killer is on the streets arse.

And then you'd come on ATS and whine that you are losing freedom.

Look people, LIFE IS NOT A MOVIE OR CSI! Detectives don't go around rubbing their fingers under bridges to find saw dust that leads them to a wood cutting factory, where they find a particular angle cut on a saw and trace the saw back to the manufacturer to question the employee on the metal cutting machine about a telephone number a cop found at the crime scene 3 days before the crime, where he just so happened to be eating a sandwhich.

No. It's more efficient to set up a checkpoint and have all the nice law abiding citizens wait in line and submit to the test for the safety of the community. We like to work together as a community, right?

And, it's even more efficient to set up a DNA database so that they don't have to even go through the trouble of having you wait in line and waste tax dollars on the tip and equipment. We don't like to waste our tax dollars, or wait in line, do we?

And, it's even more efficient to have that DNA information on a chip that is trackable and linked to the database, with various civil checkpoints that monitor each and every chip and it's location while you are at least in an urban and suburban population center. We aren't the criminals, we aren't suspects.

And, it's even more efficient to have an unmanned, autonomous flying drone incompassitate the guy so that when the cops arrive all they have to do is cuff the guy and put him in the back seat instead of have a stand off where innocent civilians get killed, ammo gets wasted, hostages get taken, paperwork gets filed, etc...

I'll tell you what, you think of the safest and most efficient form of society with a strict ethical governing body that allows for the most possible freedoms with the least possible crime, and your NWO future.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:38 PM
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I think it also depends on what they're doing with the DNA once they collect it. If they test it against the serial killer and then throw it away - yeah, it's repugnant, but not the worst case scenario. If they're collecting it and putting it into some federal database, then its big time bad news. You can look for that kind of crap to spread if they get away with it once or twice.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh
I think it also depends on what they're doing with the DNA once they collect it. If they test it against the serial killer and then throw it away - yeah, it's repugnant, but not the worst case scenario. If they're collecting it and putting it into some federal database, then its big time bad news. You can look for that kind of crap to spread if they get away with it once or twice.


Why is it bad in a federal database? Is a hacker going to download your DNA code and create genetic material in his home-lab DNA synthesis kit? Is someone going to clone you?

Is the government going frame you?

Are they going to alter your DNA?



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:45 PM
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reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


You have got to be kidding
...You think the hunt for a serial killer justifies pulling citizens of the community over and having them submit thier DNA?

This is just more of the same bullying tactics from the ones that are suppose to uphold the law.

It sounds like they ran out of leads are are shooting in the dark now.

I for one would not submit to this....let them take me to jail as a suspect.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Why is it bad in a federal database? Is a hacker going to download your DNA code and create genetic material in his home-lab DNA synthesis kit? Is someone going to clone you?

Is the government going frame you?

Are they going to alter your DNA?


With someone like Bush in charge of it? They would probably be doing all kinds of experiments on how to do DNA profiling for political opponents, the poor and disabled, the non-religious, and just about anyone else who doesn't fit their ideal.

We used to have the right to privacy and to be free from government intrusion in our lives. If we're innocent, why should we have to fork over our DNA so the feds can do what they want to with it?

The FBI also wants to put together a database that has hair color, tatoos, facial features, and other unique data that can identify you. I'm sure they'd just attach your DNA to your record in that database, then run the database past all their "socially desirable" algorithims in order to ensure you don't work, you don't eat, and you don't buy anything important if you don't fit their profile.

Why would they reward undesirables with any benefits of American life when they hate them?



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:51 PM
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Originally posted by ATruGod
reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


You have got to be kidding
...You think the hunt for a serial killer justifies pulling citizens of the community over and having them submit thier DNA?

This is just more of the same bullying tactics from the ones that are suppose to uphold the law.

It sounds like they ran out of leads are are shooting in the dark now.

I for one would not submit to this....let them take me to jail as a suspect.


Let's see... Do I think pulling people over for a 2 minute DNA test justifies keeping at least one more person alive, and getting a serial killer off of the streets?

Yep, as a matter of fact. I would give up DNA and 2 minutes if it meant that a fellow human being could keep their life.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Let's see... Do I think pulling people over for a 2 minute DNA test justifies keeping at least one more person alive, and getting a serial killer off of the streets?

Yep, as a matter of fact. I would give up DNA and 2 minutes if it meant that a fellow human being could keep their life.


Except it doesn't guarantee that the serial killer would be caught, and it encourages the authorities to push even further into private space of innocents, where they have no right to be.

I've personally noticed the difference in the police lately. They've gotten far more agressive and pushy even when you're totally innocent. I don't want to end up with the gestapo rounding up people for every little thing just because they're too lazy to do real police work and would rather just round people up for a grilling and a little torture. I'm sure in that scenario, a number of people opposed to police tactics would end up disappeared.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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You honestly think that taking random DNA from people is actually going to do anything but make thier database bigger and maybe get some hits on some cold cases? You think it will actually catch this serial killer?

At this rate why dont we make it a law everyone has to submit thier DNA, fingerprints, hair samples....that would make it easy for the cops to do thier job right?

Come on where does it end?



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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This is disturbing from the POV that it could give Gordon Broon ideas to extend the powers of police in the UK now that we have the return of the infamous SUS laws



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 03:59 PM
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This thread is a bit misleading. The article states they are swabbing the mouths of "mouths of persons of interests during traffic stops". They have DNA samples from the crime scene and have a specific profile they are looking for.

Let's keep in mind that this is during a traffic stop and they are not stopping traffic to swab everyone's mouth. They are probably doing this to save time and money instead of bringing every "person of interest" into the station, which they do have the legal right to do. The article does not mention what would happen if you refused to do the swab. My guess is that you may be taken down to the station and questioned.

However, while I understand they are trying to get a serial killer off the streets, I do believe they maybe crossing the line with illegally searching individuals. This evidence may not hold up in court so they would really need to be careful on how they handle this.

That being said, we do need to be careful with our liberties. They are so easily given up but not that easily gained.

Just my two cents, and probably not worth half of that.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by AWingAndASigh

Originally posted by benign.psychosis

Let's see... Do I think pulling people over for a 2 minute DNA test justifies keeping at least one more person alive, and getting a serial killer off of the streets?

Yep, as a matter of fact. I would give up DNA and 2 minutes if it meant that a fellow human being could keep their life.


Except it doesn't guarantee that the serial killer would be caught, and it encourages the authorities to push even further into private space of innocents, where they have no right to be.



Hey, come back to reality.

NOTHING GUARANTEE's that a serial killer is going to get caught. What the heck are you smoking?



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by benign.psychosis
Hey, come back to reality.

NOTHING GUARANTEE's that a serial killer is going to get caught. What the heck are you smoking?


I've lived with 8 years of Bush's escalating power grabs and violation of constitutional rights. No smoking required.

The slippery slope is not just a metaphor.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:09 PM
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Originally posted by ATruGod
You honestly think that taking random DNA from people is actually going to do anything but make thier database bigger and maybe get some hits on some cold cases? You think it will actually catch this serial killer?

At this rate why dont we make it a law everyone has to submit thier DNA, fingerprints, hair samples....that would make it easy for the cops to do thier job right?

Come on where does it end?


Hey, if it gets some hits on old cases, then that's great. Will it catch the serial killer? Who knows. It's better then the cops doing nothing until they can get more clues at the next damn crime scene. I suppose that's how you would practice enforcing the law.

It would be great, and much more efficient if everyone was required to submit their DNA. They'd already know who this guy was, and we wouldn't even have to debate DNA collection at traffic stops.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:12 PM
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So what happens if you say no? Get arrested as a suspect? And if so, would they (the cops) be within their rights to do so? I'm fuzzy on this subject.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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Since when can you get an immediate return on the DNA collected at a traffic stop?
It is not going to matter if they actually pull the serial killer over or not, they just cannot get results back fast enough to matter. Unless they arrest everyone they stop and hold them until the results come back it matters not how many people they test.

Besides if they them have a name and address of the “killer” there is no guarantee that the name and address given are the right ones.

Basically they are storing the results for later crimes if nothing else. This way if a crime is committed they can run the DNA at the scene with DNA already stored on a data base. While this may not be an entirely bad thing it should be strictly voluntary.

DNA collected is not enough to be stored as it is destroyed in the test, the only thing that they could keep would be on paper or computer the results of your test.

Collecting DNA at a traffic stop is pretty pointless and a completely inefficient way to catch a serial killer unless they are stupid enough to stay in the spot that is given on their driver’s license. DNA results simply do not come back quick enough for this to work.
This is nothing more than compiling results for the public’s DNA for reference in future crimes.

Edit to add: Unless you volunteer your DNA it cannot be taken without a warrant by law.

Raist


[edit on 2/7/08 by Raist]



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:13 PM
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Originally posted by ATruGod
It sounds like they ran out of leads are are shooting in the dark now.

I for one would not submit to this....let them take me to jail as a suspect.


Yep, it does sound like they are just shooting in the dark. Sometimes, that's all the have left to do.

So they take a sample. Big deal. As benign.psychosis said, if it saves a life, I'm willing to do it. Hey, what if it saved your life?

Well, have fun in jail. Don't drop the soap.



posted on Feb, 7 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by benign.psychosis
 


So your of the idea that we should just capitulate to the authorities anytime somethings happened?

Does that mean if they pull me over cause someone robbed a bank and I fit the profile I should submit to a strip search so they can make sure it wasnt me? I know it sounds ridiculous.....thats my point!

[edit on 7-2-2008 by ATruGod]






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